What an indictment for Fisher

[Tron]

I give Fisher credit for taking the Rams from the worst team in NFL history over a 5 year period and turning them into a mid level team that could pull out upsets, but lose the easy games and not get over the hump. He was a huge upgrade over Linny and Spags. And for that I give him a :cheers:

And now we have upgraded further to a guy who has gotten us over that hump!!! ALL HAIL MCVAY!!!!! :yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay:

 

[Zodi]

Yeah, the second most losingest HC in NFL history... yet, a millionaire that now spends his days fishing in Montana.

A magician, I say!

Gotta feel for the guy, huh?

Montana, North Dakota... beautiful country up there in the spring/summer. Absolute nightmare in the winter haha

 

[Karate61]

He was a huge upgrade over Linny and Spags.

Huge upgrade??? 4-12 last year was a huge upgrade??? That's funny!!!

 

[Rmfnlt]

How about not giving Fisher to much credit for draft picks?

I mean, come on. If I drafted last year I would have picked either Goff or Wentz. How many drafting geniuses are out there?

Fisher was "Coach" Fisher, not "Draft" Fisher; and he sucked it as a Coach! Don't give Fisher credit for anything except all his years of losing records after losing records.

Bam!

Well, I've always surmised that Fisher had a lot of pull when it came to the drafts so I'm not gonna go back on that now.

Looking at 2012 - 2016, the record is actually pretty good:
2012: Brockers (good), Quick (bad), Jenkins (good, although not as good as they say IMO), Pead (bad), Tru Johnson (good). Oh, and in the 6th... some guy named Zuerline
2013: Austin (jury still out as far as I'm concerned), Ogletree (I'd still say good, despite his regression this year), McDonald (good), the rest were bad.
2014: Robinson (bad), Donald (good), Joyner (good) Alexander is in there (I'lll say OK).... the rest? Bad.
2015: Gurley (good), Havenstein (jury still out), Brown (jury still out), Manion (jury still out), the rest? Bad.
2016: Goff (I know... I know... but jury still out), Higbee (jury out), Cooper (jury out)... all these guys are contributing to the team today, so the outlook is favorable... but they are still too new to rate.

So, looking at all of it, I'd have to say Fisher (again, assuming he had a lot of say) was certainly no worse than average.... probably above average.

 

[Tron]

Huge upgrade??? 4-12 last year was a huge upgrade??? That's funny!!!

Linny/Spags record: 21-63
Fisher record: 31-45

Yes, big upgrade. It's not hard to be a big upgrade over a pile of shit lol.

 

[Karate61]

Linny/Spags record: 21-63
Fisher record: 31-45

Yes, big upgrade. It's not hard to be a big upgrade over a pile of crap lol.

I'l go with upgrade as well, just not a huge upgrade. After all, I don't think Fisher ever fired the equipment manager, which is an improvement over Spags...lol

 

[Tron]

I'l go with upgrade as well, just not a huge upgrade. After all, I don't think Fisher ever fired the equipment manager, which is an improvement over Spags...lol

All good man, we aren't to far off from each other on this. Fisher also didn't take down all the photos of former great Rams from the walls lol. Lets just go with McVay is a massive upgrade over all and is the fuckin shit!!!

 

[Rabid Ram]

I could see him land a Defensive coordinator spot or a college head coaching gig. And yes, he and his staff were a major part of the problem. But the contrast is highlighted by the fact that McVay is awesome.

So if wade Phillips doesn't work out dp we hire Fisher as d coordinator? :rimshot:

 

[nighttrain]

NO

 

[Rmfnlt]

So if wade Phillips doesn't work out dp we hire Fisher as d coordinator?

:eek:

 

[~lyser]

I think it was me and @Mackeyser who said when McVay was hired that this could be similar to a Jim Harblaw/49ers situation. An offensive minded coach takes over a team from a defensive-minded coach that had been stacking high draft picks for awhile and suddenly they get it together.

Fisher started with shit and built a good roster. However, it took McVay to come in and put all the pieces together to solve the puzzle. The roster is absolutely LOADED with high #1 picks on both sides of the ball.

 

[thirteen28]

Well, I've always surmised that Fisher had a lot of pull when it came to the drafts so I'm not gonna go back on that now.

Looking at 2012 - 2016, the record is actually pretty good:
2012: Brockers (good), Quick (bad), Jenkins (good, although not as good as they say IMO), Pead (bad), Tru Johnson (good). Oh, and in the 6th... some guy named Zuerline
2013: Austin (jury still out as far as I'm concerned), Ogletree (I'd still say good, despite his regression this year), McDonald (good), the rest were bad.
2014: Robinson (bad), Donald (good), Joyner (good) Alexander is in there (I'lll say OK).... the rest? Bad.
2015: Gurley (good), Havenstein (jury still out), Brown (jury still out), Manion (jury still out), the rest? Bad.
2016: Goff (I know... I know... but jury still out), Higbee (jury out), Cooper (jury out)... all these guys are contributing to the team today, so the outlook is favorable... but they are still too new to rate.

So, looking at all of it, I'd have to say Fisher (again, assuming he had a lot of say) was certainly no worse than average.... probably above average.

Notice a trend there? As in, all the guys that became consistently good while Fisher was here are on one side of the ball? GZ excepted of course.

 

[Noregar]

Ranking the Rams last 5 head Coaches with McVay (incomplete)

Vermeil A+
Martz B
Fisher D
Linehan F
Spags FFFFFF++++

Linehan and Spags were so bad they made Fisher look decent in comparison. Fisher was superior to both at building a roster especially defense and special teams. His biggest downfall was his ego, which gave him over confidence in an outdated offensive philosophy and led him to make poor choices for offensive coordinators. Even the defense struggled some prior to Greg Williams arrival and was an underachieving until he arrived. If not for Greg Williams, the defense may have been considered a failure too even with all of the talent they had. Shotty was at least somewhat competent as an OC compared to Boras and Zignetti who were terrible choices that highlight Fisher's ultimate failure as the Rams HC.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Spags FFFFFF++++

Might be a little over the top...

Spagnuolo
2008: Long (good player), Avery (average player, but not a bust), Greco (still a starter, granted in CLE but not out of the league at least),
2009: Smith (bust... bust...bust), Laurinaitis (good player), Fisher (productive player with the Rams, PHI and now in NE)
2010: Bradford (a lot of things, but not sure he'd be classified as a bust), Saffold, the rest were pretty much busts except for Hoomanawanui who I wouldn't classify as a bust.

Now, let's look at Linehan
2005: Barron (bust), Bartell (bust - out of the league), Atogwe (out of the league, but I recall him as being pretty good) and Incognito (idiot, therefore a bust )
2006: Hill (bust), Klopfenstein (bust), Wroten (bust), and the rest were busts as well. Basically, an o-fer for en entire draft.
2007: Carriker (bust), Leonard (bust), Wade (bust) and the rest were busts.

So good old Linehan whiffed on drafts for TWO YEARS.

Nah, he's your FFFFFF++++++


BTW, strongly disagree regarding Martz but I'm too tired to do that research... I've done it many, many times... he was a terrible drafter and it set the franchise back years. Just take a look.

 

[dieterbrock]

Fisher's brilliance as a defensive coach needs to be remembered.
Heck, he was able to hold the Rams offense back from 35 points per game to only 14 points per game. Impressive!

 

[thirteen28]

2008: Long (good player), Avery (average player, but not a bust), Greco (still a starter, granted in CLE but not out of the league at least),

2005: Barron (bust), Bartell (bust - out of the league), Atogwe (out of the league, but I recall him as being pretty good) and Incognito (idiot, therefore a bust )

You are a year off on these guys. 2005 was the last Martz draft, Linehan took over in 2006. 2008 was the last Linehan draft, Spags took over in 2009.

And in both cases, those two regimes had far too many misses. If nothing else, the Fisher regime hit on almost every defensive player they took, the only ones I might call busts are Brandon McGee and Michael Sam ... 5th and 7th rounders, respectively. The problems were overwhelmingly on the other side of the ball, where Fisher would take athletes like Brian Quick and Greg Robinson over guys that were less athletes but better players (e.g., Alshon Jeffrey and Jake Matthews, whom he could have taken instead of the previous two). Those failures were compounded by lousy offensive coaches that couldn't coach these guys up into good players, and a culture that didn't push those guys or set good examples for them.

 

[Rmfnlt]

You are a year off on these guys. 2005 was the last Martz draft, Linehan took over in 2006. 2008 was the last Linehan draft, Spags took over in 2009.

And in both cases, those two regimes had far too many misses. If nothing else, the Fisher regime hit on almost every defensive player they took, the only ones I might call busts are Brandon McGee and Michael Sam ... 5th and 7th rounders, respectively. The problems were overwhelmingly on the other side of the ball, where Fisher would take athletes like Brian Quick and Greg Robinson over guys that were less athletes but better players (e.g., Alshon Jeffrey and Jake Matthews, whom he could have taken instead of the previous two). Those failures were compounded by lousy offensive coaches that couldn't coach these guys up into good players, and a culture that didn't push those guys or set good examples for them.

Oops

Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that Linehan's drafts were the absolute worst.

Spagnuolo wasn't far behind... but he hit on at least a few.

Yes, Fisher knew how to draft defensive talent. I think that will help us this year, once Phillips figures out how to best utilize these guys and then get some road graders in for his 3 man front.

 

[dieterbrock]

Fisher was better than Spagnolo, who was better than Linehan, but that's like comparing diarrhea, constipation and IBS. At the end of the day its all crap, none of its good, and you don't want any of it

 

[Rmfnlt]

Fisher was better than Spagnolo, who was better than Linehan, but that's like comparing diarrhea, constipation and IBS. At the end of the day its all crap, none of its good, and you don't want any of it

My crap is a nicer shade of brown than yours!
:rolllaugh:

 

[Noregar]

Might be a little over the top...

Spagnuolo
2008: Long (good player), Avery (average player, but not a bust), Greco (still a starter, granted in CLE but not out of the league at least),
2009: Smith (bust... bust...bust), Laurinaitis (good player), Fisher (productive player with the Rams, PHI and now in NE)
2010: Bradford (a lot of things, but not sure he'd be classified as a bust), Saffold, the rest were pretty much busts except for Hoomanawanui who I wouldn't classify as a bust.

Now, let's look at Linehan
2005: Barron (bust), Bartell (bust - out of the league), Atogwe (out of the league, but I recall him as being pretty good) and Incognito (idiot, therefore a bust )
2006: Hill (bust), Klopfenstein (bust), Wroten (bust), and the rest were busts as well. Basically, an o-fer for en entire draft.
2007: Carriker (bust), Leonard (bust), Wade (bust) and the rest were busts.

So good old Linehan whiffed on drafts for TWO YEARS.

Nah, he's your FFFFFF++++++


BTW, strongly disagree regarding Martz but I'm too tired to do that research... I've done it many, many times... he was a terrible drafter and it set the franchise back years. Just take a look.

I am sure many may disagree with my grades but my main point was to emphasize where I felt Fisher ranked in comparison to other recent Rams Head coaches especially the bottom two.

As to the rankings, being a head coach is much more than just drafting and roster building. Martz was not great at roster building but he was hamstrung in that regard by a retarded FO structure. Martz could coach an offense and his 2001 Rams team was a superior team. Even though they lost the super bowl he gets a lot of cred from me for that season.

Debating Spags and Linehan is almost an exercise in futility as I think we both agree that both were absolutely terrible HC's. IMHO I think Spags was worse just because of the pettiness I saw demonstrated by him in some of his decisions and because his final season as HC was the worst season I have ever experienced a Ram fan. It was worse than 2016 and worse than Linehan's final season. I agree that Spags had better drafts but he at least had an actual personnel man helping him in Devaney where as Linehan had Zygmunt and a complete hot mess FO support system behind him (not that what Spags had was much better).