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What makes you say that? The NFC West until 2012 was terrible.
Ron Jaworski: “Jeff Fisher Is An Awful Coach”
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tempests
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-Team went up for sale as soon as Spags was hired
-Chip and Lucia didn't want to be owners and it showed
-inherited a miserable cap situation, an aging and mostly talentless roster
-offensive line ripped apart by injuries
-lockout wiped out the 2011 offseason
They get a lot of grief from Rams fans but Spags and BD did leave the franchise in better shape than they found it.
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the team he inherited was much worse. wrong coach at the wrong time. if fisher had taken over then the rams would have won 2 division titles. 2010 and 2011 before the rest of the nfc west woke up.
.
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I won't dispute that stuff, but you spoke of the players Fisher inherited which means we're talking about football on the field. You're ignoring my point. Fisher has been rebuilding through one of the strongest divisions the league has seen probably since the old NFC East days...Spags won 7 games in a poor division.
tempests
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Yeah, the NFC West was poor but look at the starters on that Rams 2010 team. It's actually kind of shocking.
There were also several things about the Rams that give Fisher a leg up. He's got an owner that stays out of his business, that signs off on whatever assistant coaches he wants to hire, gave him total autonomy on football decisions, including hiring his own GM. And the RG3 trade gave him the draft capital for accelerated development.
Still hasn't been the best circumstances, but if the Rams were such a poor draw Fisher would've gone to Miami.
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- Haole
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This^ may be "Factual" BUT! I have never seen a Team so "Snake -Bit" At the QB position over those 3 seasons! So ....
tempests
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Matt Ryan's old OC is now Mariota's head coach must be happenstance. The Dolphins want Adam Gase coaching Ryan Tannehill? I don't get it.
Elmgrovegnome
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That was Fisher and Sneads biggest gaffe IMO and it could continue to haunt them for a few seasons, and inevitably get them or he fired if not fixed, imo
tavian
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http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2016/3...eff-fisher-record-mediocrity-8-8-life-is-fine
How Bad Of A Coach Is Jeff Fisher? Depends On What You Expect From Him.
By 3k
@3k_ on Mar 4, 2016, 12:58p 113
Jim Brown-USA TODAY Sports
Is Jeff Fisher a "bad" coach? What is "bad"?
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Bate dropped referenced it in this AM's Random Ramsdom, but I thought it merits its own thread.
If you missed it, former Los Angeles Rams QB and current ESPN NFL Analyst Ron Jaworski had some relatively blunt comments on San Diego's Mighty 1090:
[Jeff Fisher] is an awful coach. He's a terrible coach. He would have been fired by 30 teams years ago and struggling to get back in this league.
If you can't develop a quarterback in the National Football League, you can't be a winning, consistent head coach. Jeff Fisher went to one Super Bowl. He's never been a consistent, winning coach. And he's never developed a quarterback outside of Steve McNair, and Steve was not, he came in with a lot of ability and certainly, I do not think he was the guy that did it.
But when you look at what that Rams offense was a year ago, it was disgusting. It was terrible. They were firing coaches. They were firing players. They had no idea what they were doing on offense.
That's not a great coach.
...
A couple of years ago, I thought this team had the chance to be the Rams formidable defense of the Fearsome Foursome. You know, [Chris] Long is gone. All these guys are gone. This defense has been a disaster as well.
You know, they had talent. They had a decent window. They had draft choices. Nothing positive has happened.
Yeah, they get a win every once in a while against Seattle. They get a big win against Arizona. But when you look at a team that plays as inconsistent as the Los Angeles Rams...
In the interest of trying to figure out if Jeff Fisher is a bad or "awful" coach, I think it's more important to try to assess where his floor is and where his ceiling is and why. And I think the best way perhaps of doing that is looking at the four periods that have defined his head coaching career and what that indicates re: his ceiling and floor and how much his philosophy determines that.
The Early Years: 1994-1998 (32-38, .457)
Fisher's ascent through the NFL coaching ranks took a decade. A tutelage period under Buddy Ryan in Chicago and Philadelphia saw him rejoin his head coach from his playing days at USC in John Robinson with the Los Angeles Rams in 1991 as defensive coordinator. After a two-year stint with the San Francisco 49ers, Fisher joined the Houston Oilers staff in 1994 (replacing his mentor Buddy Ryan who had been ousted at DC) under Head Coach Jack Pardee, the Los Angeles Rams' second-round pick in the 1957 NFL Draft. A 1-9 start in '94 saw Pardee exit and Jeff Fisher take over for his first head coaching gig.
The 1994 Houston Oilers would finish 2-14 as Warren Moon had been traded to the Minnesota Vikings. Fisher led them to a limping 1-5 record to close out the season, the first season with the NFL's new salary cap implemented in an attempt to ensure parity and competitiveness across the league (along with an equitable pay structure for the labor pool). That lousy record awarded the third overall pick in the 1995 NFL Draft to the Oilers, a pick they used on Alcorn State QB Steve McNair.
McNair was brought along slowly in his first two years as the Oilers put up a 7-9 and 8-8 pair of seasons in 1995 and 1996 adding RB Eddie George to the offensive makeover through the 1996 NFL Draft.
The franchise moved to Nashville for the 1997 season, McNair's first as a full-time starter. In the first two years, the Tennessee Oilers (a name they would keep until the 1999 season) went 8-8...and 8-8.
The Steve McNair Years: 1999-2005 (65-47, .580)
Jeff Fisher's fifth full year as the Oilers'/Titans' head coach, McNair's third as the full-time starter, saw everything fall into place.
The Titans drafted DE Jevon Kearse with the first round pick to immediate acclaim, and everything fell together...except for the final yard they needed to win Super Bowl XXXIV instead of the St. Louis Rams.
That 1999 season kicked off Fisher's best five-year run of his career in which the Titans made the playoffs four times and compiled a 56-24 record.
McNair would suffer through an injury-plagued 2004 and 2005 was no better as the Titans went 9-23. The defense had turned into one of the worst in the NFL
The Vince Young Years: 2006-2010 (45-35, .562)
Drafting Vince Young with the third pick in the 2006 NFL Draft reoriented the offense, but the defense was still a huge disappointment giving up the second most points and the most yards in 2006.
Fisher got it fixed.
In 2007 and 2008, the Titans' defense was a top 10 unit leading a pedestrian offense that saw them reach the playoffs in back-to-back seasons and go 23-9 in the regular season. Things quickly fell apart, though, and 2009 and 2010 saw the Titans' defense regress and head back to familiar territory for Fisher going 14-18 in his final two seasons as Tennessee's head coach.
The Rams Years: 2012-? (27-36-1, .422)
We know the deal here.
A remake of a failed Rams era preceding his arrival, Fisher has overhauled the team through the Robert Griffin III trade in the 2012 NFL Draft that stocked the Rams' cupboard with top draft picks for three successive years.
Those draft picks and the free agent moves that overhauled nearly the entire roster in four years led to exactly 0 more wins in year four than they did in year one.
Overall: 1994-2010, 2012-? (169-156-1, .518)
At the outset, I sought to define Fisher's ceiling and floor.
I think the floor's certainly easier to identify. In the 20 full seasons he's been head coach, only two of his teams have finished with less than six wins.
That makes it hard to qualify Fisher as a "bad" coach.
Of course the problem is, he's had so many middling seasons, you can't really put him anywhere near a top tier. Just six of those 20 seasons saw Fisher's teams finish with a winning record. That means 12 of Jeff Fisher-coached team seasons finished between six and nine wins.
That is the eternal paradox of Fisherball.
It's rarely going to be bad. He instills a physicality into his teams on both sides of the ball that punish their way to victory often enough.
It's also rarely going to be very good. His offenses are never dynamic enough to hold up in the modern NFL and inconsistencies on defense (due to overaggressiveness both as it related to play style and penalties) too often give easy points to even weaker opposition.
Ron Jaworski isn't necessarily wrong though. It's not that Jeff Fisher is terrible at getting his teams to win. He's terrible at getting people to realize the range of his team's success.
And that's perhaps the problem. People are still assuming Fisherball has the same range of success or failure as other teams. Just this week, we got a coaches ranking at Rotoworld that placed Jeff Fisher 18th among all NFL head coaches -- a fair ranking.
The problem is, the write-up falls into the same alluring trap that Fisherball always offers:
Give Jeff Fisher this: His teams have an identity. Of course, that identity includes contemptible penalties, inexplicable losses and an inexhaustible supply of excuses, but it’s stunning when you stop and think about how few coaches truly impose their will on their players. Fisher’s teams play aggressive, swarming defense and ... uhh, something that occasionally resembles football on offense. But Fisher, six seasons removed from his most recent winning campaign, might finally have the offensive counterbalance to his ever potent defense. Todd Gurley is the best running back prospect since Adrian Peterson, and appears ready to be the league's top runner as early as this season. If Gurley shines as a sophomore, Fisher might somehow, someway get the last laugh on a football intelligentsia that’s made a weekly habit of writing his obituary.
One pullquote from that, emphasis mine:
Fisher, six seasons removed from his most recent winning campaign, might finally have the offensive counterbalance to his ever potent defense
That's what Fisherball does. It muddles reality into a paste, shoves it through a sieve and smears it on stained glass. What seems close to reality isn't.
He's six years removed from a winning season.
That offensive counterbalance he got in Todd Gurley who was as good as you could possibly have expected? He headlined the league's worst offense.
If you stay away from Fisherball long enough, from the outside there's enough to like to assume that at some point it all comes together.
From the inside, you've died a thousand deaths before ever getting there to the point that it's just not worth it to wait it out.
That's what's terrible.
How Bad Of A Coach Is Jeff Fisher? Depends On What You Expect From Him.
By 3k
@3k_ on Mar 4, 2016, 12:58p 113
Jim Brown-USA TODAY Sports
Is Jeff Fisher a "bad" coach? What is "bad"?
Tweet Share (49)
Pin
Bate dropped referenced it in this AM's Random Ramsdom, but I thought it merits its own thread.
If you missed it, former Los Angeles Rams QB and current ESPN NFL Analyst Ron Jaworski had some relatively blunt comments on San Diego's Mighty 1090:
[Jeff Fisher] is an awful coach. He's a terrible coach. He would have been fired by 30 teams years ago and struggling to get back in this league.
If you can't develop a quarterback in the National Football League, you can't be a winning, consistent head coach. Jeff Fisher went to one Super Bowl. He's never been a consistent, winning coach. And he's never developed a quarterback outside of Steve McNair, and Steve was not, he came in with a lot of ability and certainly, I do not think he was the guy that did it.
But when you look at what that Rams offense was a year ago, it was disgusting. It was terrible. They were firing coaches. They were firing players. They had no idea what they were doing on offense.
That's not a great coach.
...
A couple of years ago, I thought this team had the chance to be the Rams formidable defense of the Fearsome Foursome. You know, [Chris] Long is gone. All these guys are gone. This defense has been a disaster as well.
You know, they had talent. They had a decent window. They had draft choices. Nothing positive has happened.
Yeah, they get a win every once in a while against Seattle. They get a big win against Arizona. But when you look at a team that plays as inconsistent as the Los Angeles Rams...
In the interest of trying to figure out if Jeff Fisher is a bad or "awful" coach, I think it's more important to try to assess where his floor is and where his ceiling is and why. And I think the best way perhaps of doing that is looking at the four periods that have defined his head coaching career and what that indicates re: his ceiling and floor and how much his philosophy determines that.
The Early Years: 1994-1998 (32-38, .457)
Fisher's ascent through the NFL coaching ranks took a decade. A tutelage period under Buddy Ryan in Chicago and Philadelphia saw him rejoin his head coach from his playing days at USC in John Robinson with the Los Angeles Rams in 1991 as defensive coordinator. After a two-year stint with the San Francisco 49ers, Fisher joined the Houston Oilers staff in 1994 (replacing his mentor Buddy Ryan who had been ousted at DC) under Head Coach Jack Pardee, the Los Angeles Rams' second-round pick in the 1957 NFL Draft. A 1-9 start in '94 saw Pardee exit and Jeff Fisher take over for his first head coaching gig.
The 1994 Houston Oilers would finish 2-14 as Warren Moon had been traded to the Minnesota Vikings. Fisher led them to a limping 1-5 record to close out the season, the first season with the NFL's new salary cap implemented in an attempt to ensure parity and competitiveness across the league (along with an equitable pay structure for the labor pool). That lousy record awarded the third overall pick in the 1995 NFL Draft to the Oilers, a pick they used on Alcorn State QB Steve McNair.
McNair was brought along slowly in his first two years as the Oilers put up a 7-9 and 8-8 pair of seasons in 1995 and 1996 adding RB Eddie George to the offensive makeover through the 1996 NFL Draft.
The franchise moved to Nashville for the 1997 season, McNair's first as a full-time starter. In the first two years, the Tennessee Oilers (a name they would keep until the 1999 season) went 8-8...and 8-8.
The Steve McNair Years: 1999-2005 (65-47, .580)
Jeff Fisher's fifth full year as the Oilers'/Titans' head coach, McNair's third as the full-time starter, saw everything fall into place.
The Titans drafted DE Jevon Kearse with the first round pick to immediate acclaim, and everything fell together...except for the final yard they needed to win Super Bowl XXXIV instead of the St. Louis Rams.
That 1999 season kicked off Fisher's best five-year run of his career in which the Titans made the playoffs four times and compiled a 56-24 record.
McNair would suffer through an injury-plagued 2004 and 2005 was no better as the Titans went 9-23. The defense had turned into one of the worst in the NFL
The Vince Young Years: 2006-2010 (45-35, .562)
Drafting Vince Young with the third pick in the 2006 NFL Draft reoriented the offense, but the defense was still a huge disappointment giving up the second most points and the most yards in 2006.
Fisher got it fixed.
In 2007 and 2008, the Titans' defense was a top 10 unit leading a pedestrian offense that saw them reach the playoffs in back-to-back seasons and go 23-9 in the regular season. Things quickly fell apart, though, and 2009 and 2010 saw the Titans' defense regress and head back to familiar territory for Fisher going 14-18 in his final two seasons as Tennessee's head coach.
The Rams Years: 2012-? (27-36-1, .422)
We know the deal here.
A remake of a failed Rams era preceding his arrival, Fisher has overhauled the team through the Robert Griffin III trade in the 2012 NFL Draft that stocked the Rams' cupboard with top draft picks for three successive years.
Those draft picks and the free agent moves that overhauled nearly the entire roster in four years led to exactly 0 more wins in year four than they did in year one.
Overall: 1994-2010, 2012-? (169-156-1, .518)
At the outset, I sought to define Fisher's ceiling and floor.
I think the floor's certainly easier to identify. In the 20 full seasons he's been head coach, only two of his teams have finished with less than six wins.
That makes it hard to qualify Fisher as a "bad" coach.
Of course the problem is, he's had so many middling seasons, you can't really put him anywhere near a top tier. Just six of those 20 seasons saw Fisher's teams finish with a winning record. That means 12 of Jeff Fisher-coached team seasons finished between six and nine wins.
That is the eternal paradox of Fisherball.
It's rarely going to be bad. He instills a physicality into his teams on both sides of the ball that punish their way to victory often enough.
It's also rarely going to be very good. His offenses are never dynamic enough to hold up in the modern NFL and inconsistencies on defense (due to overaggressiveness both as it related to play style and penalties) too often give easy points to even weaker opposition.
Ron Jaworski isn't necessarily wrong though. It's not that Jeff Fisher is terrible at getting his teams to win. He's terrible at getting people to realize the range of his team's success.
And that's perhaps the problem. People are still assuming Fisherball has the same range of success or failure as other teams. Just this week, we got a coaches ranking at Rotoworld that placed Jeff Fisher 18th among all NFL head coaches -- a fair ranking.
The problem is, the write-up falls into the same alluring trap that Fisherball always offers:
Give Jeff Fisher this: His teams have an identity. Of course, that identity includes contemptible penalties, inexplicable losses and an inexhaustible supply of excuses, but it’s stunning when you stop and think about how few coaches truly impose their will on their players. Fisher’s teams play aggressive, swarming defense and ... uhh, something that occasionally resembles football on offense. But Fisher, six seasons removed from his most recent winning campaign, might finally have the offensive counterbalance to his ever potent defense. Todd Gurley is the best running back prospect since Adrian Peterson, and appears ready to be the league's top runner as early as this season. If Gurley shines as a sophomore, Fisher might somehow, someway get the last laugh on a football intelligentsia that’s made a weekly habit of writing his obituary.
One pullquote from that, emphasis mine:
Fisher, six seasons removed from his most recent winning campaign, might finally have the offensive counterbalance to his ever potent defense
That's what Fisherball does. It muddles reality into a paste, shoves it through a sieve and smears it on stained glass. What seems close to reality isn't.
He's six years removed from a winning season.
That offensive counterbalance he got in Todd Gurley who was as good as you could possibly have expected? He headlined the league's worst offense.
If you stay away from Fisherball long enough, from the outside there's enough to like to assume that at some point it all comes together.
From the inside, you've died a thousand deaths before ever getting there to the point that it's just not worth it to wait it out.
That's what's terrible.
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Roman Snow
H.I.M.
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Dieter, really ? Houston? I think we know the answer to that one. They literally played THE easiest schedule in the league. And though Fisher is not above some criticism, Jawort-ski saying he is an "awful coach" is just lazy and worthy of :shooting:
Those "stats" you cite do not tell the whole story. It basically comes down to the elusive solid quarterback.
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Btw, one thing about the Fisher/ Jaws relationship. Fisher was Buddy Ryan's DC on Philly. He was his protege. Buddy ran Jaws out of Philly. Buddy used to rip him in the press, laying the groundwork to start playing Randall Cunningham. So I would not doubt that Jaws sees Buddy in Fisher or equates Fisher with Ryan.
Shoman01
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I believe he is 10 losses away from having the most losses of a head coach in NFL history, so there is that.
MTRamsFan
Montana is God's Country
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I will say, Fisher is definitely a "Player's Coach." A great head coach builds a great staff, and gets the player's to play within his schemes. Hopefully some of the changes with offensive coaches, and some player additions this off-season will put us over the hump. I really think we are close. Regarding what Jaworski said, I could care less about his comments. He's another blow-hard pundit who has really no substance to his comments. Moving on...
Amitar
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I agree with a lot of what you said, but the Rams have made horrible decisions at the QB spot. Bringing in Davis was a bad decision last year. It only took a few games the previous year before the league got on to him and then he completely folded. That took reps away from Mannion. At the end of the season before the Rams were out of the playoff hunt yet Fisher still started Hill instead of seeing if Keenum could play in the NFL. Then they grab Keenum off waivers, cut him, then trade again for him. Then they sign Foles to a multi-year deal before he even takes his first snap. Every single one of these decision was not only a bad idea from the beginning. The only thing saving this team right now is someone, and I don't know who, is drafting very well. And that is the question I would really like answered.