HC options

[FrankenRam]

But Quick was a Snead pick. It was a terribly botched pick. If Snead was the driving force behind the Tavon trade, the that's a failure. Tavon has developed into a nice player, but he isn't worth giving what we did to get him. He is a gimmick player. Robinson at 2 is looking like a blunder as well. You can't miss with the second overall pick in an absolutely loaded draft class.

Unless something has changed, Fish has last word on everything. So, to suggest Quick, or any other pick is a 'Snead pick' is at least partially inaccurate. Snead may have scouted all the picks, and certainly had on influence on Fisher's decision, but Fish has the last word.

 

[BriansRams]

Why weren't "fire Fisher" threads around 2 weeks ago and last week?

Sir, I correctly had Fisher figured out more than a year ago. He is not a good head coach. Below average for sure.
Would you like links to prove it? Here:

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads/jeff-fisher-we-will-bounce-back.31400/

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads/im-not-sure-coach-fisher-is-the-answer-because.30576/

 

[den-the-coach]

Second, if and when Fisher is fired, I sincerely hope they hire an up and comer to be our next HC. Please, no Cowher, Gruden, or their like. Their respective ships have sailed. We need younger, hungrier, and more imaginative thinkers.

Somebody like Scott Linehan or Steve Spagnuolo? Not posting that I disagree with you, but you have to select "The Right" up and coming Head Coach. Sometimes that's easier said than done!

Come on @Rams43 if you are going to post something like this, you must come up with a name.

 

[FrankenRam]

I'm a Fisher guy, but sadly it looks like it's time to turn the page. He had 4 years and a bunch of resources to build the offense and hasn't. We are on our way to 4 losing seasons, that's a long rope to give a HC. That being said, who are our options? I like Stanford's David Shaw. His style fits our team and he has NFL ties.

Is he not under contract through 2016? If so, I would be surprised if Silent Stan dumped him until his contract is up. Whether we like it or not, I suspect Fish gets a LOT of rope simply due to the Bradford injuries. I would bet Kroenke all but writes off those 2 years.

Of course, all that could go by the wayside if this year goes down the tubes from here. But anyone that's hoping/expecting him to be gone this week is dreaming.

 

[Mojo Ram]

I'll tell you who the man the Rams need to pursue.

Asshole Face.

He's reportedly upset with the management situation for the Saints. He already won a SB with Gregg Williams and knows how to work with him. He knows offense, and could draft or find another QB who could work with his system. This team could win a SB under him,

Very interesting.
Losing Gregg Williams is the single most concern for me surrounding a HC change.

 

[den-the-coach]

Very interesting.
Losing Gregg Williams is the single most concern for me surrounding a HC change.

So hire Payton and then Jim Schwartz as DC!

 

[-X-]

I think he gets much more leash than what was given to Spagnuolo, so he'll probably finish out his contract. What he does in his final year will dictate what his future holds. All that said, *THIS* is what we have to show on offense after 3.5 years? Regardless of the reasons, circumstances, excuses, or whatever ... this kind of mediocrity will get even Vince Lombardi fired.

Our next coach, whomever it may be, had better damn well be an offensive-minded coach.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I think he gets much more leash than what was given to Spagnuolo, so he'll probably finish out his contract. What he does in his final year will dictate what his future holds. All that said, *THIS* is what we have to show on offense after 3.5 years? Regardless of the reasons, circumstances, excuses, or whatever ... this kind of mediocrity will get even Vince Lombardi fired.

Our next coach, whomever it may be, had better damn well be an offensive-minded coach.

The thing is; even though the league has moved to rules to benefit the offense... Defense still wins championships.

The problem with Fisher, IMO, his offenses keep the game too close and therefore vulnerable to losing close games. A play here. A penalty there. A dropped TD pass, Kendricks (Pitt). A missed 2pt conversion (Minn).

No firepower to recover.

 

[dieterbrock]

It's an offense league. Period. If Fisher is willing to turn the offense over to a proven OC and stay out of it, that's one thing.
It's been 4 years and so far season 1 was his most successful year.

 

[rdlkgliders]

Would we benefit from getting rid of Fisher? There were several years when Cincinnati wanted to get rid of Lewis, but his stability has really made that franchise strong.

Probably true @DCH and an honest response on a topic where many of us have great frustration.
I am not sure if you flip the question around that we are benefitting from keeping him.
Our D is good, of course they have been the 2nd best D on the field the past 2 weeks and show they are vulnerable and mediocre at times. As a whole we have beaten what we recognize as 2 quality teams, 2 teams that no one should lose to and lost to a Pitt and GB team that are obviously not as good as advertised.

 

[HE WITH HORNS]

I would also love to keep Greg Williams as our DC. But we need a strong offensive coach to come in and turn this mess around.

 

[Prime Time]

First of all, I doubt if Jeff Fisher is going anywhere this season or next season. Secondly, I would hope that Kroenke, or whoever makes that call, would at least tell him to keep his hands off the offense and hire a good OC or else.

The idea that either Fisher or Kroenke give a hoot about what the fan base thinks about this or anything else related to the Rams is laughable. They will do what's best for the team regardless of what the rest of us think or want. Or maybe they're just looking out for themselves. Who knows? I certainly don't know. Here's another take from the folks over at TST...
********************************************************************
http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2015/11/15/9740126/head-coach-replacements

Head Coach Replacements
By FailureDrill on Nov 15, 2015

Can anyone cure what ails this offense?

If you think Jeff Fisher is doing a bang-up job, then this post isn't for you. If you think the refs are out to get us, then this post isn't for you. If you think there isn't a systemic, deep rooted problem with the staffing, approach and execution of this football team, then this post isn't for you. If you think things are great and this team's just had a couple bad breaks, that's awesome. I'm happy for you and wish I could share your optimism and/or drugs.

If you think Jon Gruden, Bill Cowher, Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Mike Ditka or Tom Landry's Fedora are realistic, viable coaching replacements, again: this post isn't for you. Instead of discussing how Fisher should fix things, let's start looking at some realistic replacements.

For the sake of this discussion, I'm not going to include potential current head coaches who may very well see the axe before the season is over (I'm looking at you, Asshole Face).

Coordinators

Greg Roman, OC, Buffalo Bills. While at times he wasn't the most popular guy in San Francisco, their offense was far more productive while he was the playcaller. Likewise, the Buffalo offense has seen a bit of an uptick in production this year. Perhaps he took some notes from former mentor Jim Harbaugh on how to motivate his team and hold people accountable as well.

Frank Reich, OC, San Diego Chargers. The Chargers have the 4th ranked offense in the NFL and Reich has complied some credible experience that could warrant a HC position.

Adam Gase, OC, Chicago Bears. I mean, look at what the Bears offense did today. Gase's name was popular last offseason before taking the OC job in Chicago.

Kyle Shanahan, OC, Atlanta Falcons. Despite the weapons they employ in Atlanta, the Falcons offense has been surprisingly good this year. Shanahan's pedigree doesn't hurt, either.

Jim Bob Cooter, OC, Detroit Lions. Yes. Yes, all damn day, yes.

Wade Phillips, DC, Denver Broncos. His last head coaching gig was operating under Jerral down in Dallas and was ushered aside for Jason Garrett. His Broncos defense is the best in the league. A wealth of experience and a guarantee to not just keep the defense from regressing, but taking another step forward.

In-House Replacements

Gregg Williams, DC. Maybe just to piss off the rest of the league? I'm sure if Fisher gets canned, he'll be right behind him or take a DC position elsewhere.

Frank Cignetti, OC. No.

College

Like I said, I'm leaving off your top tier guys, as I don't see them leaving the success they're seeing at the college level. Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Les Miles, Jim Harbaugh, Bob Stoops, just to name a few. The way I see it, if any of these guys (save for Saban and Harbaugh) would make the jump to the NFL, they would have done it by now. Feel free to counterpoint me on that in the comments, though. I'm also largely unfamiliar with college coaches, as I'm just cherry picking the names I'm familiar with here.

David Shaw, Stanford. Shaw's record at Stanford since replacing Harbaugh has been impressive and he has experience at the NFL level as a position coach.

Art Briles, Baylor. Baylor's offense has been a complete juggernaut under Briles. Whether he wants to chuck it all and see if he's got what it takes at the NFL is a mystery.

Mark Dantonio, Michigan State. The Spartans have been a powerful team under Dantonio's watch in East Lansing.
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Asshole Face!!!
Williams/Payton combo has won a super bowl already…. LET’s pull the trigger!!!
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Given Williams' allegiance to Fisher,
I doubt he sticks around after Fisher is canned.
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Only reason he left Payton
is he knew what was coming….

I think Payton makes sense
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Payton needs a new start...
Rams needs an offensive minded coach… Marriage in paradise.
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At this point in their rebuild
Seattle was competing for superbowls [sad face]

While a league average QB would go a super long way, all the numb-nuttery and is rooted deeply in Fisher’s culture of mediocrity

From that list, I’d take Kyle Shannahan
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Shanahan and Reich are on my short list.
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Payton!
Sounds Great! Ghost of Bill Walsh will be coming yet again to Defend this Coach of Ours… When I see or hear or think about Greg Robinson The same name comes to mind, when I was yelling at TV During Draft lmao.. Sammy Watkins Should Be A Ram!!
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I'd love to have Payton as well,
but there’s no guarantee the Saints are going to fire him this offseason.
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The problem is the Rams have so much that is right about this team. My dream scenario would be.
Snead stays…hell he does so well at picking players, let get him to pick the next HC.

Williams…he could stay I guess, although the Rams D is so talented and in its prime that there are alot of DCs out there that could do just as well IMO.

Cignetti…I think he should stay…I like what the Rams are trying to do on offense if the players could get out of their own way.

 

[Force16X]

I think he gets much more leash than what was given to Spagnuolo, so he'll probably finish out his contract. What he does in his final year will dictate what his future holds. All that said, *THIS* is what we have to show on offense after 3.5 years? Regardless of the reasons, circumstances, excuses, or whatever ... this kind of mediocrity will get even Vince Lombardi fired.

Our next coach, whomever it may be, had better damn well be an offensive-minded coach.

and then the defense will be don coryellish (see chargers, san diego 1980's). but this offense is basically horrible. and with a talented young RB in place, someone better figure out how to improve it before he goes to waste or another team.

 

[-X-]

The thing is; even though the league has moved to rules to benefit the offense... Defense still wins championships.

There's *some* validity to that statement, but you can't win Championships without getting into the playoffs.
And you can't get into the playoffs without scoring some points. Once this team is behind, they're pretty much screwed.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Speechless....I get home, the wife lies and says the Rams won...then I see this crap shoot...too numb....

Fox looked way to prepared & ready to beat us...Out coached....hmmm...Fish hired Cig....Fish & Cig signed on for Foles...Nick Foles....at least Sam made it through 50% of the snaps...
Start of the game we looked serious....The rest...confused....Still there were signs....the easy completions that were overthrows....The floating passes...The terrible defense...Two 80+ yard passes to TE & a RB???? Seriously?!? JB hurt trying to make a tackle after a pick (Damn Jamon was running good) Todd Gurley...and we only have 13 points....Welker gets more targets than Quick....WELKER?!?!? Quick catches one pass...ONE!
Talent needs...Center...those were 2 bogus holds on G-Rob...but even I am concerned...Just seems out of place....Maybe Battle DOES go to LT in 2016....I don't see any problems with Cook today...switches to Kendricks I guess....wrs....Can't tell....Foles performs that poorly....Britt is done as well....if I see one more reverse....

My 3 year old needs me....disappointed is too small....but after last week...well, the Washington game really, I'm not surprised....I just hate that I too am questioning Fisher....He wanted Foles...He's to blame....He chose Cig....He chose Weinke....Fisher....has the game passed him by? He was yelling and everything after halftime....how did they look after that speech? down by 14...lose by 24....team has spoken....where's all that leader talk now?

Defense....we change everything for an injured Alshon...Why? WHY?!? need LB's out there....Don't know why...but I saw AD get off the snap slow...I saw Donald loafing....this is concerning...they ran right at him and he was the last to move...WTF?!? When the team fails to respond, it's time to move on....

Say McLeod is okay if you want...He's gone after this year...not a bad player...but 80+ yard TD's by RB's & TE's....meh, we could go with Cody and wouldn't lose much....We could go to TJ or Mo or Barron and probably be an upgrade...

I bet everything I had on Seattle....I never do that...NEVER....

 

[CGI_Ram]

There's *some* validity to that statement, but you can't win Championships without getting into the playoffs.
And you can't get into the playoffs without scoring some points. Once this team is behind, they're pretty much screwed.

No disagreement there.

It's almost statistically impossible to be so offensively challenged for 4 straight years in a rebuild.

That's a no build.

 

[rdlkgliders]

@CGI_Ram said: ↑
The thing is; even though the league has moved to rules to benefit the offense... Defense still wins championships.

There's *some* validity to that statement, but you can't win Championships without getting into the playoffs.
And you can't get into the playoffs without scoring some points. Once this team is behind, they're pretty much screwed.

Your both smart guys with valid points (relatively speaking) Truth we need balance, we don't have it.
If you want to put fans in the seats win or entertain (score a lot).
Our O has been based on the hope of developing our players without a premium on talent and productivity in a wide enough approach.
If we do hire a new coach we would certainly lose a lot of players and change the face of our team yet again. The talent and way in which we apply it is very unorthodox and has worked in certain aspects but would certainly be a source of scrutiny and change among a new regime.
Why couldn't we have just won at least one of the last two? We would be talking about all the other strange events of the day and contemplating the playoff picture.

 

[dieterbrock]

Would we benefit from getting rid of Fisher? There were several years when Cincinnati wanted to get rid of Lewis, but his stability has really made that franchise strong.

Marvin Lewis didn't have his first losing season until his 5th year with a high water mark of 11 wins.
Only 3 losing seasons in 13 years.
Fisher on his way to possibly his 4th losing season in 4 years.
Don't know what coach keeps his job after that.

 

[fearsomefour]

Very interesting.
Losing Gregg Williams is the single most concern for me surrounding a HC change.

Thats about it.
First don't deconstruct the one positive the Rams have going for them.

 

[Angry Ram]

Because he had us in position to get into the playoffs, and now by his teams poor effort and his bad coaching we have made our road to the playoffs almost impossible by dropping very winnable games? It's not exactly a hard conclusion to make. Good for him to have them in the position in the first place, but am I supposed to give him a participation ribbon when he flummoxed that away?

4 years of the same thing, how many times can a man have his team doing the exact same thing and then have it all put on somebody who isn't him? We'd drop just about everything, turned this team over massively and yet the only thing that remains is inconsistent play, poor player evaluation and the inability to change anything up when it's obvious it's not working.

And this isn't exactly a new thing, this is Fisher's M.O. for years and part of why the Titans finally parted way with him, were they just knee jerk reacting?

It's not 4 years of the same thing. This year is different than 2012-14. 2012 depleted roster. 2013, 2014 massive injuries (and no, that's not the E word, it's what actually happened).

We've had all kinds of adversity during his tenure here. What coach could maintain a locker room like that? Do you see what's happening in Dallas or Detroit? They've assembled a whole roster of players, and some of them aren't holding their end of the bargain. IDK about you, but I place equal accountability on players and coaches in the NFL vs. college. They (players) are pros, they have to do their job too.

BTW the Titans moved on after 16 some odd years, not clamoring for him after a loss or 2.

I never started one because it seemed obvious to me that if a coach with ALL of the guys he and Snead picked aren't getting it together/talented it enough after 4 yrs (in some cases), it's the HC/GM's responsibility. We have one of the highest paid coaching staffs in the NFL and was supposed to be a great assett. Yet, the penalties we incur EVERY game is ridiculous. This is surely on the coaching staff after all of these years and no improvement whatsoever. Yes, the WR's have to catch the balls and the Oline has to block and the QB has to throw accurately. But then again, if they can't get it done, who's fault is it ultimately? Who chose them over others? Who has coached them? As for immediate results, who said that? I am looking for a consistent winner, and we are not getting that with Fisher Ball. I think it's absolutely correct to hold the those in charge, responsible for the teams performance after 4 years (which it will be at the end of the year). I am for keeping Fisher if he can finally achieve a winning season (9-7), but it's not looking that way right now,.

1. The penalites are not all on Jeff Fisher. It's many times often full of shit flags that shouldn't even be called. I don't care if you bring his rep, or his style, I see the games and see garbage officiating. Hence my running garbage officiating thread.

2. You can coach them, but honestly what can a coach do if they don't hold their end? Scream at them, bench them? What would that do? Also how can he control when a ref throws a flag based off a judgement call?

3. I highly doubt that people will suddenly be forgiving if a new coach comes in and the team loses a game.

Sir, I correctly had Fisher figured out more than a year ago. He is not a good head coach. Below average for sure.
Would you like links to prove it? Here:

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads/jeff-fisher-we-will-bounce-back.31400/

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads/im-not-sure-coach-fisher-is-the-answer-because.30576/

I see you posted those right after losses. Shocking. And again this year you do the same. Why didn't you post anything similar when they won?

Using your logic, no coach should ever be fired because it's not their fault, it's the players. Strange that the entire NFL doesn't work that way.

The NFL is a business and Head Coaches are subject to getting the job done just like we all are at our own jobs. If you can't get your players to do their job right then you should be replaced.........period. That is how it works!

The NFL is a different kind of business. One move can cause huge chain reactions.

IDK about you, but I don't want the Rams to become the Cleveland Browns of the NFC. Let that distinction remain elsewhere. Changing coaches often does NOT work. Since 2005 when Mike Martz got fired 2 head coaches got fired, an interim coach got fired, God knows how many coordinators and assistant coaches and what has changed? At some point you have to stay the freaking course.