Breaking down the Rams day two draft selections

[jrry32]

Thats all well and dandy....but if the A+ player sticks then you lose the A+ player you drafted last year. Thats my thing....you cant do that and expect to be successful. I'm not trying to trash...but what are you going to say next year when we go WR strong again? Eventually your pics need to stick and you move on to the next position group of need.

Nobody should fear competition. If our WR corp continues to suck, go WR strong again. The cream will rise to the top.

 

[Mackeyser]

Nobody should fear competition. If our WR corp continues to suck, go WR strong again. The cream will rise to the top.

The guys we got this year, especially Kupp are going to stick. They are going to push some bad WRs off the roster.

Enough that they aren't going strong at WR next year. Putting that out there NOW.

 

[jrry32]

The guys we got this year, especially Kupp are going to stick. They are going to push some bad WRs off the roster.

Enough that they aren't going strong at WR next year. Putting that out there NOW.

I agree, but I was answering Dog's question.

 

[wolfdogg]

I'm saying to leave a much higher ranked player who could fill a position of need (CB) on the board, then take a flyer on another player who's position is overstocked(WR)... is not worthy of an 'A' ranking.

Again, ranked higher by who? I kinda think that the rams scouts put a little more time into these players than tv analysts. Do you really think that the rams had a significantly higher rated player on their board available at that pick and decided to go in another direction?

 

[ReddingRam]

Nobody should fear competition. If our WR corp continues to suck, go WR strong again. The cream will rise to the top.

"Iron sharpens iron!"

 

[Zodi]

Nobody should fear competition. If our WR corp continues to suck, go WR strong again. The cream will rise to the top.

Pretty much. I mean, how many WRs did the Lions take in the first round before landing Megatron?

 

[…..]

You guys are right...we should draft TE's and WR's every year. It increases competition. Great plan. Sharpen the ol tool shed.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

You guys are right...we should draft TE's and WR's every year. It increases competition. Great plan. Sharpen the ol tool shed.

I take it you voted "D".....

 

[…..]

I take it you voted "D".....

You know I didnt vote anything and am pretty non commital. I want the team to do well, thats all.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Jerry Rice was a 4.6 guy... It's about can a player play, not being the next Mike Mamula...

Oh and another 4.6 guy? Antonio Brown. Pretty sure he can play.

Pick the exceptions if you want. It's hard to succeed in the pros with receivers that run 4.6 or slower.

And Jerry Rice didn't run a 4.6

Neither did Brown

 

[fearsomefour]

Jerry Rice was a 4.6 guy... It's about can a player play, not being the next Mike Mamula...

Oh and another 4.6 guy? Antonio Brown. Pretty sure he can play.

Best not to get too caught up in numbers.

Nothing is more over rated than straight 40 time.
All these guys can run in a straight line. What makes guys like Rice, Bruce, Brown ect unstoppable is they can cut without shuffling their feet or slowing down. Take a 4.6 WR who can cut off either foot without slowing down and can run precise routes.....the QB knows where he is in a route....and he will be open all day vs a 4.2 CB.
The TE taken in the second round....report says great athlete who rounds off routes and is inconsistent in his technique. That causes a lot more concern than a guy who has skis and is polished running a 4.6.

 

[StealYoGurley]

For people making the unfounded claim that Johnson can't tackle here is what PFF has to say,

"Johnson had the fourth-best tackling efficiency among draft class safeties, missing one out of every 14.6 tackle attempts."

 

[fearsomefour]

Pick the exceptions if you want. It's hard to succeed in the pros with receivers that run 4.6 or slower.

And Jerry Rice didn't run a 4.6

Neither did Brown

The most consistant numbers I found (including draft sites listing combine numbers) had Rice at 4.57, Bruce at 4.53.
I'm sure trainers could tell you both guys were timed sub 4.5 multiple times and slower than 4.6 as well. Splitting hairs over tenths of a second is silliness.
Larry Fitzgerald ran a 4.43 at 6' 3" 220 lbs. would be interesting to see what he runs now.
Tom Newberry was listed at like 266 lbs (ball parking, but light) his whole career. Are we really to believe he didn't gain weight and tons of strength over a long NFL career?
My point is a couple of 40s run in one place on one day indicate only an idea of a guys general athletism. It's a generic tool in a specific environment.
No one was great or failed because they were 3/10 of a second faster or slower than someone else in a straight line run in shorts and track shoes.

 

[LACHAMP46]

No one was great or failed because they were 3/10 of a second faster or slower than someone else in a straight line run in shorts and track shoes.

I keep hearing Kupp compared to Jordy Nelson...Nelson ran a 4.51.....Kupp ran a 4.61....that .1 difference is enough to make a star or a bust.

If 40 times weren't important...especially for skilled positions...they wouldn't test for it.

 

[ReddingRam]

The most consistant numbers I found (including draft sites listing combine numbers) had Rice at 4.57, Bruce at 4.53.
I'm sure trainers could tell you both guys were timed sub 4.5 multiple times and slower than 4.6 as well. Splitting hairs over tenths of a second is silliness.
Larry Fitzgerald ran a 4.43 at 6' 3" 220 lbs. would be interesting to see what he runs now.
Tom Newberry was listed at like 266 lbs (ball parking, but light) his whole career. Are we really to believe he didn't gain weight and tons of strength over a long NFL career?
My point is a couple of 40s run in one place on one day indicate only an idea of a guys general athletism. It's a generic tool in a specific environment.
No one was great or failed because they were 3/10 of a second faster or slower than someone else in a straight line run in shorts and track shoes.

Side note on this ... Both Bruce nad Rice ran their 40's BEFORE they had the electronic timing system.....

 

[shovelpass]

Larry Fitzgerald ran a 4.43 at 6' 3" 220 lbs. would be interesting to see what he runs now.

Kupp catches, idolizes and plays the slot like Fitz currently does.

 

[fearsomefour]

Kupp catches, idolizes and plays the slot like Fitz currently does.

One can dream.

 

[fearsomefour]

I keep hearing Kupp compared to Jordy Nelson...Nelson ran a 4.51.....Kupp ran a 4.61....that .1 difference is enough to make a star or a bust.

If 40 times weren't important...especially for skilled positions...they wouldn't test for it.

It has value.
General athletism. Same as the vertical jump.
I would rate the 40 near the bottom of the tests they run. Change of direction drills would carry more weight for me.
If it was just about straight line speed Alexander Wright and his 4.1 would be in the HOF.
The difference from one day to the next could be different between that 1/10th.
A little sick. Bad nights sleep. Not properly recovered from previous workouts. Inside or outside. Shoes and the track they are running in can affect that.
I bet most high level guys have a range of 2 or 3 tenths.
It's one test and nothing more.

 

[Mackeyser]

I keep hearing Kupp compared to Jordy Nelson...Nelson ran a 4.51.....Kupp ran a 4.61....that .1 difference is enough to make a star or a bust.

If 40 times weren't important...especially for skilled positions...they wouldn't test for it.

You mean like asking WRs to do the bench press? That literally...LITERALLY means nothing for WRs.

There are about a THOUSAND measurables that are more important than can a WR lift a heavy weight from his chest a number of times.

It is rare that a player runs an unimpeded 9 route... It is maybe one time a game where a player breaks away and the chase matters.

Moreover, there are plenty of guys affected by pads. Also, some guys play faster or slower in games. So, some guys run a 4.6 in game and they might actually play slightly faster or tons slower in the game with pads on.

It's an approximation tool and we've seen countless examples of putting too much stock in 40 times.

In 2013, Marquise Goodwin ran a sub 4.3 at the combine. Is he remotely a the WR that Deandre Hopkins is? Or Robert Woods, whom we just acquired? Of course not.

Rare is the WR who has it all. Extraordinarily rare. And once game 4 rolls around, pretty much everyone's banged up to crap and playing at some percentage of their optimal self... by that time, a 4.3 becomes a solid 4.5 or 4.6.

And that's fine. The bigger issues are "can a guy maintain that speed over the course of a season?" "Can a guy maintain that speed under game situations?"

It's just a number that gives a single point of reference. It should never make or break a player eval.

And let's be honest. If John Ross, runs a 4.4? He's the same guy with the same film and the SAME medical concerns. But he runs that 4.22 and now he's this amazing receiver. Well, he is an amazing receiver, but one time running a 4.22 doesn't CHANGE anything about him. Doesn't improve his being a WR or make him less likely to be injured. Nothing changed. Except how people saw him... and that's nothing upon which to base an evaluation.

 

[jrry32]

I keep hearing Kupp compared to Jordy Nelson...Nelson ran a 4.51.....Kupp ran a 4.61....that .1 difference is enough to make a star or a bust.

If 40 times weren't important...especially for skilled positions...they wouldn't test for it.

No, it's not.

Pick the exceptions if you want. It's hard to succeed in the pros with receivers that run 4.6 or slower.

And Jerry Rice didn't run a 4.6

Neither did Brown

Bill Walsh clocked Jerry Rice at a 4.59 in the 40. You really trying to argue the difference between a 4.59 and a 4.60 or a 4.57 (Antonio Brown) and a 4.60?