Arian Foster fires back at Anheuser-Busch

[jrry32]

Absolutely. Drinking is a choice. How do alcoholics recover? They choose to stop drinking.

I didn't ask if drinking is a choice. I asked if alcoholism is a choice.

Is drug addiction a choice too?

Do reckless drivers go through withdrawal if they have to obey traffic laws?

 

[HometownBoy]

Beef messes with your health too. Do farmers also not get an opinion? Winemakers also no opinion? How about plastic manufacturers? The NFL doesn't make them do anything, but as their employer they can choose to discipline them. And AB or any other company should be able to comment.

They do, but they also have to deal with the fact that people can shut them down by pointing out that they're selling a poison while trying to ride in on a high horse and they look like assholes while doing it. They also have to deal with the fact that most won't find their point poignant, but rather hypocritical and laughable. Those opinions are also free as well.

 

[simonblaze]

Burned by foster

 

[blue4]

They do, but they also have to deal with the fact that people can shut them down by pointing out that they're selling a poison while trying to ride in on a high horse and they look like assholes while doing it. They also have to deal with the fact that most won't find their point poignant, but rather hypocritical and laughable. Those opinions are also free as well.

Yes they are, but I'd be willing to wager most people see it as a company whose products they drink every time they mow the grass or barbecue having a justifiable position of concern regarding child and wife abusers. I'd also be willing to wager most people realize beer isn't a poison, that people need to be accountable for their own actions, and that people will consume alcohol and drugs even if it means brewing or growing it themselves. IMO the only hypocrisy is the people who WANT to drink at the game or out with their friends and then blame a brewer when they have too many. In mind mind this is a pretty poor deflection.

 

[blue4]

While I agree with your first two things, I disagree with your third one. I don't disagree with the the thought behind it, I just disagree that he's doing/saying that.

No matter how many times I read what he said (“Selling poison on that high horse,” Foster said on Twitter. “Domestic violence and alcohol damn near synonymous.”), I can't find the part where he's circling the wagons for wife and child beaters. I agree with every word he said and I'm not circling the wagons for wife and child beaters. That is IMO, pure speculation on your part as to his motivations. I'm not sure why you'd assume the worst but I personally think it's a bad idea to read anything into anything said by anybody. You're bound to be wrong at least 50% of the time.

My reading of what he's saying is that they are both heinous.

Why else would he even equate the two then? Was he just waiting to slam a beer company and now has his chance? What's the point of even bringing up beer, especially since AP wasn't drunk, if not to defend or deflect?

 

[Alan]

blue4 wanting answers:
Why else would he even equate the two then? Was he just waiting to slam a beer company and now has his chance? What's the point of even bringing up beer, especially since AP wasn't drunk, if not to defend or deflect?

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke

So you're saying that when hypocrisy rears its ugly head in an issue concerning something hugely important you should remain silent about it? Especially when your dealing with an entity (AB) that can do something about the injustice if their feet are held to the fire.

So I see, by his actual actions/words, him doing something potentially productive and right and you inject unfounded/unsaid motivations to his actions. Maybe he did have unsavory motivations but absent any actual evidence of that, why would you assume it to be true?

 

[blue4]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke

So you're saying that when hypocrisy rears its ugly head in an issue concerning something hugely important you should remain silent about it? Especially when your dealing with an entity (AB) that can do something about the injustice if their feet are held to the fire.

So I see, by his actual actions/words, him doing something potentially productive and right and you inject unfounded/unsaid motivations to his actions. Maybe he did have unsavory motivations but absent any actual evidence of that, why would you assume it to be true?

I would have to believe that there is any hypocrisy going on at all. How can I condone silence against hypocrisy when I don't believe any hypocrisy is taking place?

I assume that to be true because there is no alcohol component to this crime whatever, so there's no reason to go on an alcohol rant now. It's a deflection pure and simple.

 

[blue4]

As I typed that last response, I saw on the news another player, a Cardinal, is now charged with assault on an 18 month old and the mother. Blaming AB, or even talking about beer here is completely silly.

 

[Alan]

blue4 with this stunner:
I would have to believe that there is any hypocrisy going on at all.

I assume that to be true because there is no alcohol component to this crime whatever, so there's no reason to go on an alcohol rant now.

Well now I see why you're saying most of what you're saying.

Maybe if we can get on the same page concerning the presence or absence of hypocrisy we can have a more fruitful debate. Let's see if we can.

Here's why the alcohol, in and of itself, is unimportant to this conversation. If I'm a manufacturer/purveyor of an addictive harmful product like cigarettes (or alcohol) that's killing thousands of people every year and I'm pontificating about arms traders selling guns to ISIL or complaining about the the evils of McDonalds selling products that help promote obesity aren't I being hypocritical? Does it matter that there is no cigarette component in Big Macs? Does it matter that the ammunition clip is filled with bullets and not cigarettes? Doesn't the fact that I'm engaged in doing something that is harmful to society at large and so are the arms dealers and McDonalds what's important?

A murderer complaining about a slave trader. Unrelated except for the fact that they're both harmful to society.

I could give many other examples but you probably get my point. It's all about engaging in an activity (in this case) that's harmful to society.

The evils of alcohol and the evils of domestic violence. Both harmful to society even though one is legal and the other isn't. Who has the moral high ground?

Hypocrisy - a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles,etc.,that one does not really possess.

How are we doing now? Are we on the same page yet?

 

[blue4]

Well now I see why you're saying most of what you're saying.

Maybe if we can get on the same page concerning the presence or absence of hypocrisy we can have a more fruitful debate. Let's see if we can.

Here's why the alcohol, in and of itself, is unimportant to this conversation. If I'm a manufacturer/purveyor of an addictive harmful product like cigarettes (or alcohol) that's killing thousands of people every year and I'm pontificating about arms traders selling guns to ISIL or complaining about the the evils of McDonalds selling products that help promote obesity aren't I being hypocritical? Does it matter that there is no cigarette component in Big Macs? Does it matter that the ammunition clip is filled with bullets and not cigarettes? Doesn't the fact that I'm engaged in doing something that is harmful to society at large and so are the arms dealers and McDonalds what's important?

A murderer complaining about a slave trader. Unrelated except for the fact that they're both harmful to society.

I could give many other examples but you probably get my point. It's all about engaging in an activity that's harmful to society.

The evils of alcohol and the evils of domestic violence. Both harmful to society even though one is legal and the other isn't.

Hypocrisy - a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles,etc.,that one does not really possess.

How are we doing now? Are we on the same page yet?

No, I don't think we are. Beer, tobacco, or firearms aren't inherently evil, unless abused by someone. Someone who is not being forced to do anything. The view that something is bad for society is completely in the eye of the beholder. I completely reject the notion that ANY industry or consumer is even slightly responsible for grown men CHOOSING to beat the heck out of another human being. If what you say is true, then no one can have an opinion. We all work for companies who do things that some people consider bad for society. My brother in law works in a coal fired plant. Is he evil, or ineligible to put in? What about my mother in laws insurance company? Both work for places far more harmful to the health of our society in my eyes. It still reeks of deflection and excuse making to me.

 

[Alan]

blue4 demonstrating the chasm:
No, I don't think we are. Beer, tobacco, or firearms aren't inherently evil, unless abused by someone. Someone who is not being forced to do anything. The view that something is bad for society is completely in the eye of the beholder. I completely reject the notion that ANY industry or consumer is even slightly responsible for grown men CHOOSING to beat the heck out of another human being. If what you say is true, then no one can have an opinion. We all work for companies who do things that some people consider bad for society. My brother in law works in a coal fired plant. Is he evil, or ineligible to put in? What about my mother in laws insurance company? Both work for places far more harmful to the health of our society in my eyes. It still reeks of deflection and excuse making to me.

OK then. We don't seem to be on the same page or even in the same library. I bet we like some of the same movies though.

 

[blue4]

OK then. We don't seem to be on the same page or even in the same library. I bet we like some of the same movies though.

I bet we do.

 

[ZigZagRam]

I just came to say that I enjoy drinking.

 

[AZRamsFan93]

I didn't ask if drinking is a choice. I asked if alcoholism is a choice.

Is drug addiction a choice too?

Do reckless drivers go through withdrawal if they have to obey traffic laws?

Absolutely! In every case addicts choose to abuse drugs and alcohol to the point of addiction. At some point they must choose to seek treatment and choose to recover - or not.

 

[Sum1]

Well, his deflection has worked perfectly.

The issue at hand is the NFL's lack of ability to deal with a major social issue. A sponsor has stated they have concerns about that.

How awful would it be for this alcohol company, that so many are quick to jump on the dangers of alcohol, stood by and supported the NFL in an issue such as this? That sure seems like a much worse stance to take. "Hey come get drunk on our beer and beat your wife and kids like your favorite NFL superstar!"

Everyone with a brain knows that alcohol impairs your judgement. That is never going to change, that is what alcohol does to a person in excess. However, it doesn't excuse a person from their actions. What AB isn't doing is going out selling their product with the idea that drinking and driving is a good idea, or that getting hammered and punching your wife is cool. If people abuse alcohol and do those things that is their personal responsibility. However, what the NFL is selling is their players. Fair or not, players are role models to people...and not just children, there are grown adults that idolize these people (which I find ridiculous).

So, if Arian Foster wants to claim any sponsor is of the league he plays for is being hypocritical, perhaps he should also pull his support by sitting out. If he feels like AB is as bad as AP and Ray Rice then what does that say about Foster who is willing to play for a group willing to accept sponsorship from that company?

Oh that's right...that really isn't the issue at hand. He's just trying to distract people from the reality of the issue. Adrian Peterson beat his child. Ray Rice beat his wife. Ray McDonald and Greg Hardy also beat a woman. And the NFL dropped the ball.

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

If ab are so concerned about domestic violence why don't they pull their products off the market. That will greatly help reduce the rate of violence in any society.

.

 

[AZRamsFan93]

.

If ab are so concerned about domestic violence why don't they pull their products off the market. That will greatly help reduce the rate of violence in any society.

.

So in societies where alcohol is forbidden there are lower rates of violence? Are you sure you want to stick with that position? Alcohol is forbidden in ISIS by the way.

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

Are there people that don't think alcohol plays a part in many domestic violence incidents?

Seriously?

.

 

[blue4]

.

Are there people that don't think alcohol plays a part in many domestic violence incidents?

Seriously?

.

So does about a thousand other things. Drinking a beer does not turn you into a wife beater, no matter how many people want to pretend it does.

 

[Alan]

kurtfaulk forgetting about the Flat Earthers:
Are there people that don't think alcohol plays a part in many domestic violence incidents?

Yep, there's no doubt that it lowers inhibitions and thus hinders drinkers from maintaining their self control.
Here's this from the Trauma Abuse Center:
http://traumaabusetreatment.com/lowered-inhibitions-and-alcohol-abuse

Lowered Inhibitions and Alcohol Abuse

One of the first effects alcohol abuse has is it significantly lowers personal inhibitions. While this often helps people feel relaxed, it has also caused millions of people to engage in extremely risky behaviors with life-changing repercussions.

How Alcohol Lowers Inhibitions
When a person drinks a large amount of alcohol, her brain releases dopamine, the chemical that helps people feel good. The brain uses this natural chemical to reinforce behaviors that promote wellbeing, like exercise, healthy relational connections, hard work and even eating. However, heavy drinking releases a high amount of dopamine, which blocks negative emotions, fear, stress, anxiety and insecurity.

But dopamine blocks more than the unhealthy expressions of anxiety: it blocks all expressions of it. While a drink or two might help someone relax in a social setting, a couple more drinks may prompt her to act in ways he wouldn’t otherwise. Alcohol fuels any of the following behaviors:

• Risky sexual behavior
• Criminal activity
• Fighting and other violence
• Making inappropriate comments to friends, family or co-workers
• The use of other drugs to feel even higher
• Driving under the influence

If you experience any of these symptoms while drinking, you may be abusing the substance to feel good about yourself.

Risks Associated with Lowered Inhibitions
Many intoxicated people engage in behavior that they would avoid while sober. Many babies have been conceived due to unprotected sex while parents were drunk. Millions of lives have been lost to drunk driving. Overdose kills many people every year, and many people go to prison due to acts of violence they committed while under drunk. In addition to these repercussions, many people become physically and psychologically addicted to alcohol as a result of binge drinking. People who suffer from psychological issues like depression, anxiety or low self-esteem often crave the euphoria from drinking and are often unable to stop without focused, professional help.

Alcohol Abuse and Addiction Help
If you drink heavily to lower your inhibitions and this has gotten you into trouble, we can help. Whether you have already become addicted to alcohol or not, please call our toll-free, 24 hour helpline today for confidential, professional help. We can answer your questions and connect you with the best recovery resources available.

Drinking may make things feel better for a time, but if left untreated you risk losing everything you love. Don’t let that happen; call today and let us help you break free before it’s too late.

What kind of English is this?:
many people go to prison due to acts of violence they committed while under drunk.