Big Ben and Brady

[Elmgrovegnome]

I apologize for being redundant in advance .

While listening to ESPN radio Jaws and Tony Dungys were on. They both were asked how Big Ben and little weakling brady turned it all around. Neither was playing well earlier in the season.

Both answered similarly. Dungy said Pittsburghs receivers are growing up, but mainly they are getting better Oline play. And if you have a good QB and can give him a protected pocket to throw from then they will be successful with today's rules.


So, once again, for about 8+ years, I am going to beat the drum to fix the offensive line. FIX IT! Snead, Demoff, Barksdale....I hope someone is reading this post. Get it fixed!

I will offer my scouting services for free this offseason and indicate offensive linemen that you should target and if I am successful you can give me a job next year. But we can discuss this in private.

Also please consider bringing Martz back on staff in some capacity. I am sure that it will be tough for Jeff to take Mike in after the Superbowl loss but the guy can coach and this O needs some help. If nothing else Austin Davis could use some extra tutoring.

 

[tahoe]

I agree they need to invest heavily in the oline this off-season

 

[moklerman]

I don't think anyone disagrees or is unaware of this sentiment. Not even the Rams. They haven't ignored the o-line though, things just haven't turned out the way they'd hoped. I don't criticize them for their approach.

They've invested in coaching, the draft and FA to try and improve this o-line so it isn't as if they just don't care.

 

[Athos]

I don't criticize them for their approach.

I do. They had VERY GOOD players sitting in their laps to address the issues of the O-Line, went in different directions, and picked up lineman with bad injury histories, deteriorating play, or really (Davin Joseph) just really horrible FA. No, lins-frank injury Jones and Tim Barnes, imo, dont' count as addressing the O-Line in the draft.

Snisher have only spent 1 pick above the 4th round on a lineman under their watch. Massive fail imo. That's on them. Many of the better lines out there are built from within. We built form outside and hopefully they've learned their lesson now.

As I've said before, I go early and often with the best lineman they can find in the draft next year.

 

[Alan]

Athos with his drafting strategy:
I do. They had VERY GOOD players sitting in their laps to address the issues of the O-Line, went in different directions, and picked up lineman with bad injury histories, deteriorating play, or really (Davin Joseph) just really horrible FA. No, lins-frank injury Jones and Tim Barnes, imo, dont' count as addressing the O-Line in the draft.

Snisher have only spent 1 pick above the 4th round on a lineman under their watch. Massive fail imo. That's on them. Many of the better lines out there are built from within. We built form outside and hopefully they've learned their lesson now.

They were planning on trading up for Martin last year so I'll give them that.

I, along with a few others, have been banging the O-line drum really hard for the last few years but with the exception of trading up for Tavon and drafting Mason, I can't give them a failing grade on their choice of priorities even though they were different than mine. It's not like we didn't need players at the positions they chose to go with (except maybe the Mason pick). Even with those two picks I can see their thinking and it could have worked out really well for us and it still might. While you and I would have gone in a different direction, I'm not privy to all the information they have and I can't really say I was right about things. All I can say is that their choices haven't worked out very well (yet) in some cases.

On the other hand, we could have chosen some O-line players like Barron and Smith and then what would be be saying about their priorities?

 

[dieterbrock]

Also please consider bringing Martz back on staff in some capacity. I am sure that it will be tough for Jeff to take Mike in after the Superbowl loss but the guy can coach and this O needs some help. If nothing else Austin Davis could use some extra tutoring.

I so agree with this.
There's got to be a place for him, some capacity.
I fear the biggest oppostion to it is Martz himself. Dont know if he's got the passion for it

 

[LesBaker]

I so agree with this.
There's got to be a place for him, some capacity.
I fear the biggest oppostion to it is Martz himself. Dont know if he's got the passion for it

Nobody in the NFL wants Martz anywhere near their O or their QB. Nobody. He coached his way right out of the NFL.

The only people talking about Mike Martz are fans.

 

[cracengl]

There were those who were adamant that Fisher would never draft a lineman in the 1st round because apparently never doing something in the past makes you incapable of ever doing it, ever. But he did. They tried to trade up for Martin. Scott Wells seemed like a good signing at the time. And with Saffold, it seemed reasonable that exclusively being a guard may allow him to cut down on injuries. Jake Long had the pedigree to suggest he may be good again. Bottom line, they tried. They just didn't succeed. We need to start winning this battle instead of perpetually cycling in new hopefuls. The track record of the Rams with free agent OLs (albeit spread over different regimes) is not very good. Hopefully they'll figure it out.

 

[dieterbrock]

Nobody in the NFL wants Martz anywhere near their O or their QB. Nobody. He coached his way right out of the NFL.

The only people talking about Mike Martz are fans.

You say that as if your opinion is somehow fact.
I think Martz like many is enjoying the low stress of the announcing gig and at 63, with a history of heart ailments is content. But hey, I guess I should check with you first... Lol

 

[LesBaker]

You say that as if your opinion is somehow fact.
I think Martz like many is enjoying the low stress of the announcing gig and at 63, with a history of heart ailments is content. But hey, I guess I should check with you first... Lol

He's been fired 4 times in 6 years because of his style/personality. If someone wanted him they have had over 4 years to go get him. Evidently nobody wants him.

He's better behind a mic IMO. In fact he is excellent.

 

[dieterbrock]

He's been fired 4 times in 6 years because of his style/personality. If someone wanted him they have had over 4 years to go get him. Evidently nobody wants him.

He's better behind a mic IMO. In fact he is excellent.

Fired by whom?
The Rams? How many coaches/coordinators have they gone through?
Detroit? How many coaches/coordinators have they gone through?
San Fran? Until Harabaugh, How many coaches/coordinators had they gone through?
Chicago? With the coach killer Jay Cutler?
Come on man, Martz may be a prick but you're talking about several teams that were the epitome of dysfunction

 

[moklerman]

He's been fired 4 times in 6 years because of his style/personality. If someone wanted him they have had over 4 years to go get him. Evidently nobody wants him.

He's better behind a mic IMO. In fact he is excellent.

Do you "know" that no one's approached him about a job? Maybe they haven't but isn't it possible that Martz doesn't want to do it anymore? I find it very difficult to believe that if he was actively seeking employment he wouldn't have a job in the NFL or NCAA somewhere. He may be tough to work with but I don't think it would be too difficult to come up with a list of other guys who are just as difficult or worse.

Maybe Martz can't rekindle the GSOT but his offense is still effective and with all the re-treads being given chances I don't think it's a case of his system not being viable.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Do you "know" that no one's approached him about a job? Maybe they haven't but isn't it possible that Martz doesn't want to do it anymore? I find it very difficult to believe that if he was actively seeking employment he wouldn't have a job in the NFL or NCAA somewhere. He may be tough to work with but I don't think it would be too difficult to come up with a list of other guys who are just as difficult or worse.

Maybe Martz can't rekindle the GSOT but his offense is still effective and with all the re-treads being given chances I don't think it's a case of his system not being viable.

Yay! Mokler and I finally agree on something!

Seriously though Martz can be tough to get along with but Fisher seems to get along with everyone and in fact he seeks out the difficult players with the character red flags so he and Martz would be like Cheese and Crackers. I would be elated if Martz came to the Rams. Heck get a case of beer on the practice facility and offer Hanifan his job back as well. The Rams Oline always played well for him. IMO opinion he was the best Oline coach in the last 40 years.

 

[LesBaker]

If someone wanted him and waved 4 mil he'd take it of course, that's ten times what he is making. Though he doesn't need the money and is set, or should be. Where he got fired from doesn't mean anything, he got shown the door a record number of times for a 6 year period and wore out his welcome everywhere he went.

Either way..........NOBODY talks about Martz except a few wistful Rams fans.

 

[dieterbrock]

If someone wanted him and waved 4 mil he'd take it of course, that's ten times what he is making. Though he doesn't need the money and is set, or should be. Where he got fired from doesn't mean anything, he got shown the door a record number of times for a 6 year period and wore out his welcome everywhere he went.

Either way..........NOBODY talks about Martz except a few wistful Rams fans.

I see you're sticking with the "my opinion is fact, yours is not" type of thing....

And btw, the sentiment in this thread was to include Mike Martz "in some capacity", not as head coach. So wave your 4 million towel elsewhere.

 

[moklerman]

If someone wanted him and waved 4 mil he'd take it of course, that's ten times what he is making. Though he doesn't need the money and is set, or should be. Where he got fired from doesn't mean anything, he got shown the door a record number of times for a 6 year period and wore out his welcome everywhere he went.

Either way..........NOBODY talks about Martz except a few wistful Rams fans.

Maybe so, but the media talking or not talking about someone isn't really an indicator of that person's ability is it?

Martz was brought into consecutive situations where a HC was desperate for a quick fix and Martz had little time to instill his players and then let them get used to his scheme. I think in some ways he's a victim of his early, quick success too.

But it isn't as if he didn't have any success with Detroit, SF and Chicago. With Kitna, O'Sullivan and Cutler as his QB's. Take Cutler for example. In '09 he led the league in interceptions and was on a downward trend. Martz comes in and with Johnny Knox as the leading receiver, Cutler has a bounceback year and has the highest TD% he'd ever had as a full-time starter(5.3%). The following year, he had the lowest Int% of his career(2.2%) under Martz.

But the biggest problem has been that he's OC'd under Marinelli, Nolan and Smith. All of them defensive coaches that Martz had to conform to instead of doing what he does best. Sure, there are negatives to what Martz does but I don't think it's fair to criticize him for an offense and players that aren't truly "his". Maybe the hubris of thinking he can make any QB or RT or whatever player work in his system is a valid shortcoming buth that's why i keep saying that I want to see him get a fair shot with his system, his players and done his way.

Do I think Fisher would sign off on that? Probably not. But I'd love for Martz to get a another shot somewhere, either NFL or NCAA to do things the way he wants to do them.

 

[WvuIN02]

Not to be dismissive of the OP, but you are comparing Austin Davis to QBs with 5 SB wins and what, 7-8 SB appearances between them? While great QBs can struggle without talent, its apples and oranges to the Rams situation.

 

[LesBaker]

Yeah Moklerman and it was Cutler who was the guy that told Martz to go fuck himself after he called another 5 wide empty backfield seven step drop that got him beaten to a pulp.

There are a couple of things we know about Martz. One of them is people don't like working with him. Why bring a guy like that into the mix in STL. It isn't worth it.

 

[LesBaker]

I see you're sticking with the "my opinion is fact, yours is not" type of thing....

And btw, the sentiment in this thread was to include Mike Martz "in some capacity", not as head coach. So wave your 4 million towel elsewhere.

Yes, that's exactly what I am doing.

 

[dieterbrock]

Yes, that's exactly what I am doing.

Yeah, I noticed. It doesnt look good on ya bro. You're much better than that