Shaun Hill

[Warner4Prez]

I don't think he would live past his first game.

He didn't!

 

[CoachO]

I supported the decision to go back to Hill once healthy for many of the same reasons you conjure O ,but one fact remains there is no way Hills 30sumpthin slightly overweight body gets up from the hits Davis took last night .
For Fisher to go back on his starting QB now would be wishy washy ,he's changed his mind once and told the kid not to look over his shoulder ,he needs to stand by that.

I am not saying that Hill would take those hits any better than Davis. What I am saying, is the game plan and how defenses attack an offense with Hill would not be similar to how they are attacking Davis. SF has blitzed very little in their previous 4 games. If Shawn Hill is at QB, and shows the ability to diagnose the blitz PRE-SNAP and gets the ball out of his hand quicker, there is no reason to think he takes the number of hits.

Unless and until Austin Davis shows he can see the blitzes coming, teams are going to blitz him to death. It's just my opinion that they don't do that if Hill is back there.

I agree that Fisher has backed himself into a corner with his pronouncement of Davis being the starter the rest of the season. He will not make another change. But that doesn't mean I agree with it. Didn't at the time, don't now.

 

[Dxmissile]

It's funny how people were quiet about their disdain for Davis when he played against the eagles now since he had a so so game everyone is coming out the wood works, be consistent with your dislike don't turn into a vulture attacking a carcass

 

[Thordaddy]

How do you not understand that that's the same thing?

Unless you're saying they should see what they have in Hill in practice in which case they already did. And in preseason. And training camp. And the 13 years prior. We already know what we have in Hill and that's not much. The guy we don't know about is Davis and that's what they're trying to figure out.

I don't even think you have to criticize Hill to make the case that the experience Davis gets from here on out we can bank and JMO AFTER Fisher benched Hill in favor of Davis ,I rate the chance Hill even wants to be here slim,if I was in his position I'd take a deal elsewhere next year just would.
Am I mistaken or wasn't there a moment when Kurt was still here and Bulger was struggling in a game and Martz tried to insert Kurt and he refused telling Martz to let the kid work through it?

 

[CoachO]

It's funny how people were quiet about their disdain for Davis when he played against the eagles now since he had a so so game everyone is coming out the wood works, be consistent with your dislike don't turn into a vulture attacking a carcass

some of us weren't so quiet. Just dismissed as being foolish.

 

[RamzFanz]

Why? He won't be around next season, plus everyone has said the season is over, why not just give Davis the experience. Its not his fault that the niners D is top 5, I still don't know why they stopped running the ball the second half.. or am I just blocking that out of my memory? But yeah, Davis all the way.

I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying Hill is too old or will be gone next season. The dude is 34, that's not old for a QB. If he excelles, he could have 5-6 good years in him.

So, why do I want to see him play? To see if the Rams can win and to see if they should re-sign him.

 

[RamzFanz]

receivers were not getting much separation and the line was messing up.

Just not true. I JUST rewatched the game and the receivers were often wide open. AD made a LOT of bad throws.

 

[jrry32]

Jerry,

Let me ask you this, you are one of the guys I think really "gets it" on here, so I would like to think we could have a decent discussion on this topic.

SF has done little blitzing throughout their first 4 games. That being said, I fully expected them to bring blitzes throughout the night, especially after falling behind. A lot of people are pointing fingers at the Offensive line for the pressure, but after being at the game, then re-watching it, MOST of the protection issues came from blitzes where they overpowered TEs (Harkey and Kendricks were brutal), or RBs (Mason twice). In every single case, these blitzes were not well disguised, and Davis just doesn't' seem to recognize them at all. He seems to be f ocusing on where HIS team is lined up, or when to put guys in motion, and spends very little time trying to get a pre-snap read of any kind of the defense.

Maybe its just me, but I have serious doubts that Fangio would have incorporated the high number of blitzes if Shawn Hill were in the game, which in turn, would have limited the number of "hits" on him altogether. I realize there were breakdowns in protections, Long getting beaten clean on the first sack.. Not Davis' fault at all. Those things are gonna happen in every game.

Most young QBs aren't particularly great at it. It takes time.

But I don't agree with you. I think they would have been blitzing either ways. They were running stunts and blitzing up front as soon as they saw we weren't picking it up. It's been that way all year. It's not Davis. Harkey has looked bad this year numerous times picking up blitzers. Kendricks failed to pick one up. Our HBs, aside from Stacy, aren't good at it.

Fangio is simply doing what smart teams have done, attack our weakness. I don't believe Hill changes anything.

I also think one of Davis' biggest shortcomings, is he doesn't get thru his progressions, and like most young QBs he has a tendency to bail on the pocket way too early. If he doesn't see that first or second target, he just bails and tries to keep extend the play, and usually it ends up with him forcing the ball somewhere. For every "highlight" play he makes doing this, there are 4 "bad" plays.

He is flushing from the pocket too quickly. He even admitted such. Needs to improve. And he needs to be more decisive when he does it. Either run it or throw it. He often waits too long to do either.

As far as progressions go, depends on the play. At times, he does it well. At other times, he gets too aggressive and negates his check-down options and short routes. He gets a little too intent on completing passes down the field. That was an issue in the 2nd half.

There were many instances last night, where Davis had plenty of time to get the ball out, and either missed on the throw, or ended up "feeling" pressure and stepped right up into it. These are things I just don't see Hill doing. As ordinary as SF's secondary is supposed to be, Davis just wasn't good enough against them, to give this team much of a chance. And with Seattle coming to town this week, it will be even worse IMO.

The second half was bad for the entire team...including Davis. But I think you're overstating things here. And SF's secondary wasn't ordinary in this game. That might have been what they're supposed to be but they did a really good job of clamping down on our guys in the 2nd half.

I think Fisher has backed himself into a corner here by naming Davis the full time starter. And I don't anticipate him making any changes. But for me at least, I think the next few weeks are going to be very difficult for young Mr. Davis, and we are about to see why he was a week away from being back to coaching at Westmisinster.

SF and Seattle are difficult for any QB. Lets not hold Davis to a standard we wouldn't hold Bradford to. From what I've seen so far, it's a mixed bag. I want to see if he improves and makes changes with more experience and how he adapts to defenses adapting to him. Things could either go very badly or Davis could prove himself to be a legitimate asset to this team. We'll see.

But I don't agree with the coaching comment. Say what you will, he's looked great for a 3rd string QB. At worst, I think the kid has proven himself to be a solid backup for this team.

 

[RamzFanz]

I don't know man. That INT before getting injured in the Minny game was pretty damn bad. You don't think he has more of those in him? Especially with how this line is playing? I think we need to see what we have in Davis. And I didn't see the tons of time you seem to think he had.

This is the same argument that Davis has a future here and Hill doesn't. Says who? He's not old for a QB. He could easily have 5-6 years of good play left. I'm sick of losing and AD isn't winning. I'm not saying AD had tons of time all game but on some plays he did. The second half, AD couldn't hit a barn.

 

[Dxmissile]

some of us weren't so quiet. Just dismissed as being foolish.

The thing is even before Bradford got hurt all of his ints where pick 6's. The fumbles are a little hard to judge even the best fumble when they are constantly hit from the blindside and yet even with those mistakes He as in Davis put the team in position to win. A lot of people wanted Keenum who never won a game but because Davis is 1-3 hill needs to be back in. I can understand not liking a guy but to completely say Davis is the one who lost the game is asinine. Iirc this is a team game you win you lose as a team and right now special teams defense and drops have played a role in all 3 losses. Not just Qb play

 

[RamzFanz]

How do you not understand that that's the same thing?

Unless you're saying they should see what they have in Hill in practice in which case they already did. And in preseason. And training camp. And the 13 years prior. We already know what we have in Hill and that's not much. The guy we don't know about is Davis and that's what they're trying to figure out.

Here's what we have in Davis:

3 losses and 1 win
Lots of overthrown passes. Buckets full.
An occasional good quarter.

IMHO, the WRs are propping up below average play.

 

[jrry32]

Because Bradford wasn't throwing pick sixes virtually every game. Davis has made 4 starts and has handed opposing defenses FIVE TD's via INT or fumbles lost.

3 out of Bradford's 4 INTs in 2013 were pick sixes. I certainly didn't give a shit about that.

 

[RamzFanz]

It seems like you have been waiting for a game like this from Davis. While you fail to realize that Shaun hill would be getting crushed behind this Oline. Davis isn't perfect but why give up on the possibility of the future Shaun hill isn't the future. Fisher has already stated that Davis is the guy and rightfully so. Anyone expecting Davis to be prefect aren't being realistic. This team has a lot of issues and the last one is Davis. How many catches did Quick have.? Britt wasn't 100 percent and the defense was a total let down. Very disappointed in Jenkins but he will bounce back just like Davis and maybe we win next week

How many catches did Quick have?! As many as were thrown accurately to him. I don't recall a single drop in this game by Quick or Britt. What I do recall is a mountain of poorly thrown passes.

Britt wasn't 100%? By what measure?

There is plenty of criticism to go around, but AD had 1 good quarter that game, just like every other game.

I'm not "waiting' on anything. I've been saying this since Hill was benched.

 

[CoachO]

Most young QBs aren't particularly great at it. It takes time.

But I don't agree with you. I think they would have been blitzing either ways. They were running stunts and blitzing up front as soon as they saw we weren't picking it up. It's been that way all year. It's not Davis. Harkey has looked bad this year numerous times picking up blitzers. Kendricks failed to pick one up. Our HBs, aside from Stacy, aren't good at it.

Fangio is simply doing what smart teams have done, attack our weakness. I don't believe Hill changes anything.



He is flushing from the pocket too quickly. He even admitted such. Needs to improve. And he needs to be more decisive when he does it. Either run it or throw it. He often waits too long to do either.

As far as progressions go, depends on the play. At times, he does it well. At other times, he gets too aggressive and negates his check-down options and short routes. He gets a little too intent on completing passes down the field. That was an issue in the 2nd half.



The second half was bad for the entire team...including Davis. But I think you're overstating things here. And SF's secondary wasn't ordinary in this game. That might have been what they're supposed to be but they did a really good job of clamping down on our guys in the 2nd half.



SF and Seattle are difficult for any QB. Lets not hold Davis to a standard we wouldn't hold Bradford to. From what I've seen so far, it's a mixed bag. I want to see if he improves and makes changes with more experience and how he adapts to defenses adapting to him. Things could either go very badly or Davis could prove himself to be a legitimate asset to this team. We'll see.

But I don't agree with the coaching comment. Say what you will, he's looked great for a 3rd string QB. At worst, I think the kid has proven himself to be a solid backup for this team.

I can live with needing to gain experience to see what value he has moving forward. But there seems to be way too many in here who think he is the answer because of a couple of big yardage games. He has thrown 185 passes in 4 1/2 games, and the only game he started in, which he didn't throw the ball 40+ times was in Tampa and BTW, the only win. I get that many like the "gunslinger" approach, but I am not one of them. I would much rather have someone who will take shots when they are there, and take what the defense gives you the other times, to TAKE CARE OF THE FOOTBALL.

For me, I don't care about how many yards he throws for, or how many passes he misses on, its' the BAD decisions that have lead directly to the FOUR "pick 6's", and just not being aware of where the poorly disguised blitzes are coming from pre-snap.

The other thing is for me, I don't get the "he has looked great for a 3rd string QB" comment. That sounds like a major qualifier to me, justifying poor play. Oh well, he's a 3rd string QB, so give him a break. Keith Null looked great for a 3rd string QB, but he was still a 3rd string QB. Austin Davis, is a 3rd string QB who just happens to have been given the keys to the offense.

 

[RamzFanz]

It's funny how people were quiet about their disdain for Davis when he played against the eagles now since he had a so so game everyone is coming out the wood works, be consistent with your dislike don't turn into a vulture attacking a carcass

Sorry, that's not what has gone down.

First of all, I was calling to see Davis last season and I got the same shouting down I'm getting now.

Many wanted to see Hill play again before a starter was chosen, we've been quiet because repeating our position over and over won't change anything.

I just thought this game might have opened some peoples eyes to what a difference experience might make.

If AD starts against the Hawks, he's going to get assassinated. If Fisher wants to play AD the rest of the season, he should start Hill next week.

 

[CoachO]

The thing is even before Bradford got hurt all of his ints where pick 6's. The fumbles are a little hard to judge even the best fumble when they are constantly hit from the blindside and yet even with those mistakes He as in Davis put the team in position to win. A lot of people wanted Keenum who never won a game but because Davis is 1-3 hill needs to be back in. I can understand not liking a guy but to completely say Davis is the one who lost the game is asinine. Iirc this is a team game you win you lose as a team and right now special teams defense and drops have played a role in all 3 losses. Not just Qb play

I have never said that Austin Davis is why this team lost last night, or any of the other 3 games. What I have said, and maintain, is he is not the QB, IMO, that many in here seem to want to make him out to be. Because he throws for a ton of yardage, and makes that "WOW" play once or twice a game, they seem to want to overlook the critical and major mistakes he continues to make.

And while I admit that Bradford has thrown his share of "pick 6's", he did it few and far between compared to the pace that Davis is on. For all of Bradford's "faults", the one thing no one could accuse him of, was turning the ball over at the alarming rate Davis is at this point.

 

[Sleepy1711]

I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying Hill is too old or will be gone next season. The dude is 34, that's not old for a QB. If he excelles, he could have 5-6 good years in him.

So, why do I want to see him play? To see if the Rams can win and to see if they should re-sign him.

Last time I checked, the really good old ones are usually the elite quarterbacks..that become good when they get old.. Hill was probably good but now he's old and most likely declined..

 

[RamzFanz]

@CoachO What I don't think people get is that with just a few better decisions and better throws, the Rams could be 3-2 or 4-1 right now. They are right there.

That's not AD bashing or excusing the other players, but those were winnable games with a QB who's experienced and protects the ball. Hill also has a better "go up and get it" ball that comes down on the receiver instead of sailing over their heads. It COULD be perfect for this receiving corps.

 

[BriansRams]

I like Davis as a person and a QB. He's exciting. However, the best thing to do now, since we are 1-4 is:

Start Hill and see if we can start winning immediately, in a crazy effort to save the season, have a miracle and slip in as a wild card.
If Hill (and entire team) does not win the next 2 games, go back to Davis.
The reason to do this is to at least make an attempt to save the season. But we all know Hill is pretty old and is not the future. But if he can somehow cut down on the types of mistakes that Davis is making, and possibly slip us in as a wild card team (I know it's a big time dream) then he should get the chance.

1. Davis probably cannot play mistake proof enough this season to help us win a lot of games, although his upside is nice.

2. Hill can probably manage the games much better, less mistakes and better blitz handling, and with all the luck in the universe, get us to 10-6.

I say Hill starts next week, and until he has a very bad game. Then it's all Austin Davis for the rest of the season because he has a future because of his youth.

 

[jrry32]

I can live with needing to gain experience to see what value he has moving forward. But there seems to be way too many in here who think he is the answer because of a couple of big yardage games. He has thrown 185 passes in 4 1/2 games, and the only game he started in, which he didn't throw the ball 40+ times was in Tampa and BTW, the only win. I get that many like the "gunslinger" approach, but I am not one of them. I would much rather have someone who will take shots when they are there, and take what the defense gives you the other times, to TAKE CARE OF THE FOOTBALL.

For me, I don't care about how many yards he throws for, or how many passes he misses on, its' the BAD decisions that have lead directly to the FOUR "pick 6's", and just not being aware of where the poorly disguised blitzes are coming from pre-snap.

He hasn't thrown four pick sixes. He's thrown three. The Dallas one is inexcusable. The other two don't really matter much to me.

I'm fine with either approach. I just want a functional offense.

I will say this, he's not Drew Brees. I know people are excited but it was time his hype train slowed down some. However, I gotta believe if they don't screw us on that Cook call...Davis finishes with a strong outing against SF.

He needs to improve but I think he's FLASHED a Romo type ceiling. Not sold he'll get anywhere close to that. But he's flashed it. I wouldn't be a bit surprised, though, if he ends up being a Ryan Fitzpatrick type player. I need to see more from him but I've seen enough good that I think it's worth getting him more experience. The bad hasn't been overwhelming.

The other thing is for me, I don't get the "he has looked great for a 3rd string QB" comment. That sounds like a major qualifier to me, justifying poor play. Oh well, he's a 3rd string QB, so give him a break. Keith Null looked great for a 3rd string QB, but he was still a 3rd string QB. Austin Davis, is a 3rd string QB who just happens to have been given the keys to the offense.

If you're calling his play poor, we can stop the conversation here. I am fine with a rational discussion but I am not going to spend time having a discussion that isn't rational. Davis's play has been inconsistent but it hasn't been poor.

The reason for qualifying that statement is that expectations have been a bit high for him and your comment that he was close to being cut and out of the league. Well, he didn't get cut and he's actually played really well for a backup. Which is worth pointing out because backup QBs are valuable in the NFL.

What matters to me, though, is how he plays for a STARTER...and that's still unresolved. I want to see how he rebounds. And, of course, I want to see how he deals with Seattle's insanely talented defense.

However, as I said, lets not holding him to higher standards than Bradford. Sam had some bad games against SF and Seattle...especially when the OL wasn't getting the job done.

 

[RamzFanz]

Last time I checked, the really good old ones are usually the elite quarterbacks..that become good when they get old.. Hill was probably good but now he's old and most likely declined..

All assumptions, and that's my point. There's plenty of football left for AD if Hill isn't the answer BUT we DON'T know if he could be the answer.