Please School Me

[OC_Ram]

3 + 6 = 9

 

[thirteen28]

It's in the quiet time after FA and the Draft and before OTA's...So lets talk about the common statements by some talking-heads, about how teams will figure out Jared Goff and the offensive scheme...

They (the talking-heads) will lean into one another and agree..."ah yes, the tape. It will be studied by defensive coaches and the Boy Genius McVay and his underling Jared Goff will be figured out." The talking heads will gravely say "ah yes, Goff will revert to the mean and the offense will not be as good."

I don't get this in the Ram's case. McVay will have totally new plays in the play action scheme, because he is an innovator. He may utilize his TE's more than last year. Gurley is Gurley....dude will get open in the pass game because our WR's are absolutely legit and will require attention. Goff will find the open man when they try to load up on Gurley.

So what am I not getting? Will Goff and McVay's offense take a step back this year because of "the tape?"

I remember them saying the same thing about Warner all through the '99 season and the Rams offense as a whole before the 2000 season. I also remember how the "because of the tape" argument worked out then (hint: it didn't).

 

[TexasRam]

you sounded very down on cooks being / becoming a #1 receiver. his past 3 years beg to differ. not sure why you believe he wont continue playing at a high level.
watkins needed to make a big score on his contract. Rams couldnt keep up, so he leaves. cap casualty sadly enough. other than that, he's probably still a Ram if the money was there to spend.
Cooks could very well walk after his contract is over. at some point one would hope that spending draft picks on rentals isnt the best way to keep continuity on offense

I’m not so sure Mcvay wanted Watkins back. Take away the easy TD catches and Watkins numbers were terrible.

There is not only the failure to adjust to the ball in the air that happened several times but giving up on routes and dropping contested balls during contact.

Down the stretch when you expected him to fully know the offense and shine he completely disappeared.

There is a lot of positive coach speech that Mcvay uses not only on players he wants to keep but also on players he doesn’t have plans keeping in his offense. I’d put my money that Mcvay had zero intentions on going into year 2 with Watkins despite the coach speak.

 

[LesBaker]

Anyone else have the idea that maybe the reason this offense works so well is because it’s NOT complicated? Our players seem smart but they are atheletes, not brain surgeons.

@RamFan503 I wouldn't say it's not complicated............but I don't think it's hard to learn and master. I agree 100% that the players seem smart which helps. I have to wonder if that's what held up Austin and Watkins.

Anyway, some thoughts..........

From 99-01 and a little bit in 02 Martz used motion all over on pretty much every play. I even remember seeing him use it at the 1 yard line. He gave players space to run routes, and he had fantastic route runners, Holt, Bruce, Faulk etc, and a QB that was an incredibly precise passer in Warner.

McVay does the same thing, he doesn't have a complex scheme with all sorts of possibilities after the snap. I don't think the WR's need to read defenses as much in this scheme as other schemes where they have to be "on the same page" as the QB. They just have to properly run their assigned route and someone will be open for Goff to get the ball to. And these guys on the roster now are pretty good route runners as a group. I can't say any of them aren't above average.

Both of these guys, Martz and McVay, are amazing play designers and they use the pre snap motion beautifully. I love seeing the jet sweep coming, even when it ends up being a fake, because someone is probably going to make a big play.

I'm waiting to see what McVay uncorks this year because overall the weapons are better and Goff is seeming to come into his own.

 

[dieterbrock]

I have ZERO concern that McVay will fail to adapt as Martz did

Never understood this concept.
Martz in his last full season won a playoff game after squeaking in to the playoffs after losing Bulger for several games.
Linehan failed to adapt and the team fell in to an abyss we finally crawled out of
McVay has his Lovie in Wade and seems sharp enough to not replace him with a Marmie if we ever get to that point

 

[dieterbrock]

Y’know.... @-X- used to contend that Shotty’s offense wasn’t as much the problem as was poor execution by the players. You watch this offense execute and you can’t help but think he was onto something. These guys can play - period.

McVay has always said that the players like coaches who can help them play better. Ultimately yes, the players have to execute

 

[ReekofRams]

It's in the quiet time after FA and the Draft and before OTA's...So lets talk about the common statements by some talking-heads, about how teams will figure out Jared Goff and the offensive scheme...

They (the talking-heads) will lean into one another and agree..."ah yes, the tape. It will be studied by defensive coaches and the Boy Genius McVay and his underling Jared Goff will be figured out." The talking heads will gravely say "ah yes, Goff will revert to the mean and the offense will not be as good."

I don't get this in the Ram's case. McVay will have totally new plays in the play action scheme, because he is an innovator. He may utilize his TE's more than last year. Gurley is Gurley....dude will get open in the pass game because our WR's are absolutely legit and will require attention. Goff will find the open man when they try to load up on Gurley.

So what am I not getting? Will Goff and McVay's offense take a step back this year because of "the tape?"

First, no good quarterback ever quits learning and getting better.
Second, last season was Goff's first season in a new system, so not even Goff has figured out Goff yet, let alone the media critics.
Third, this last season was Goff's first season to grow as a professional, just imagine how much better he'll be as he matures even more this next season.
Last but not least, is everyone really dumb enough to think that McVay won't have a new bag of tricks?
So let's just sit back and enjoy smelling the tears of the teams that face us, and of all those whiny, jealous, crybaby, naysayers.:rolllaugh:

 

[Ants]

No...I don't....in this day and age....it would have been reported....did Cousins need it? anyone in the Redskins while McVay and Gruden were there? Any proof that virtually every coach with young QB did this?

Um, common sense?

 

[fanotodd]

I think there is some truth to what has been said. After all, the DCs of the league are also paid to do a job, right?

Adjusting to the opposition is a large part of the game. As the defenses gear up to beat LAST YEARS OFFENSE, McV should be prepared to deal with that. Hopefully he will have a "plan B" going into games this season, based on what the defenses are doing.

The viking and falcon games told me something about McV last year. He was not prepared to adjust to the vikes DL manhandling our OL. The run game was abandoned and so was Gurley. After that game, their was an increase in screens and using Gurley more in the passing game to set up the run. The falcons took that away and sold out to cover the flat and eliminate Gurley from the passing game. There was no plan B for that.

McV is a smart guy. He does adjust to what teams do to try and stop us, but he needs to be ready to do that in game and not the following week. I know he sees things throughout the game and makes minor adjustments, but when a team goes all out to stop a significant part of our game, he has to be ready to take advantage of that. He's not gonna be able to out scheme every team BEFORE the game as easily as he did last year.

 

[Farr Be It]

In Goff’s first full season he surpassed the greatest seasons of many current Hall of Famers including Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw and others.

Goff first full season also statistically trumped any season Tom Brady had until Tommy’s 6th season in the NFL.

Let that sink in for a minute.

Good points. We need to be patient with all the self-proclaimed sages of the NFL. It may take them a few years to realize they were premature running down the road of “Goff is a bust!” Poor saps.

Perhaps the same geniuses may find they steered-and-high-geared again down a wrong-way road: Jimmygee! Boulevard.

 

[RamFan503]

McVay has always said that the players like coaches who can help them play better. Ultimately yes, the players have to execute

And I think that is McVay’s strongest suit. While others have similar play designs and other complex schemes, Mc relies on execution

 

[dieterbrock]

And I think that is McVay’s strongest suit. While others have similar play designs and other complex schemes, Mc relies on execution

Agreed, from what he's said he'd do, to what was proven on the field, his idea to put players in their best position to succeed sure is working

 

[Mackeyser]

I think rookie QBs can have flaws that are exploitable. Garapolo is a perfect example. He only played abounding 6 games. Some were meaningless too. So this off-season Coaches will find his flaws. However, players that are good heading toward great make adjustments and work on weaknesses, especially if they have good coaching. I am not worried about Goff.

Scheme trends can be dissected and picked apart. Fisher was the first coach to really defeat the read option. That is why we see trends every 8 years or so.

Ya know, that’s one thing Fisher and GW did well. They figured some things out in a way that no one else did and in that way elevated our D.

I REALLY want to see this iteration of Wade’s D. I think it could be crazy special, but we have to play the games.

 

[Tano]

I think there is some truth to what has been said. After all, the DCs of the league are also paid to do a job, right?

Adjusting to the opposition is a large part of the game. As the defenses gear up to beat LAST YEARS OFFENSE, McV should be prepared to deal with that. Hopefully he will have a "plan B" going into games this season, based on what the defenses are doing.

The viking and falcon games told me something about McV last year. He was not prepared to adjust to the vikes DL manhandling our OL. The run game was abandoned and so was Gurley. After that game, their was an increase in screens and using Gurley more in the passing game to set up the run. The falcons took that away and sold out to cover the flat and eliminate Gurley from the passing game. There was no plan B for that.

McV is a smart guy. He does adjust to what teams do to try and stop us, but he needs to be ready to do that in game and not the following week. I know he sees things throughout the game and makes minor adjustments, but when a team goes all out to stop a significant part of our game, he has to be ready to take advantage of that. He's not gonna be able to out scheme every team BEFORE the game as easily as he did last year.

Everybody says that the Falcons stopped the Rams offense in the playoffs.

And that is not completely true.

The Falcons completely stopped the Rams offense in the first quarter. Then McVay made some adjustments.

The Rams offense went down for two scores (a td and fg) in the second quarter.

Then the Falcons stopped the Rams ONCE in the third quarter.

The Rams went down on their next possession and scored a field goal.

Then the Rams went 73 yards to the five yard line and had two dropped passes in the end zone.

Then the Rams had a perfect long pass by Goff dropped by Watkins for a sure TD in the last two minutes of the game.

So let's sum up.

First half

1) 5 possessions in the first qtr and change - 4 punts and a fumble
2) 2 possessions in the second qtr - 2 scores (td and fg)

Second Half

3) 1 Possession in the third qtr - 1 punt
4) 3 Possessions in the fourth qtr - 1 FG, 2 dropped passes in the end zone on the second possession, and a dropped long td pass on the third possession.

4 possessions in the second half - that's it. The Rams defense couldn't stop the Falcons in the second half.

No - the Falcons defense did NOT stop the Rams offense. The Rams defense stopped the Rams offense in the second half and some critical drops by the receivers in the end zone.

 

[LACHAMP46]

But don’t act like you know if someone was in Cousin’s or Wentz’s ear. You don’t. It’s just that simple.

So, you do? I mean....it was said about one guy.....and, no one has said, Hey...my coaches did that too....no one...until the 15 second clock...maybe they have....I just haven't heard of it...to this extent...I never said "McVay NEVER did this with Cousins...." Pederson NEVER did this with Wentz.....

Never heard it....

I did hear of those guys making AUDIBLES at the line of scrimmage.....

Um, common sense?

You too Ants? so....same question...who's done it so extensively that it was written about? Who? Whom?

And for some reason...you guys act like this isn't a big deal....or rather, try to....then you bring up the "others have done it...and adjusted? So, who are these other QB's that waited to receive plays from their OC at the 15 second mark?

Falcons had our offense baffled....confused...stymied....and I guess it was a statistical anomaly....just a random occurrence...

Ok...

No - the Falcons defense did NOT stop the Rams offense.

13 points by the top scoring offense...

trust me...it hurt me too....

It is a fact that with that same offense that everyone said relied on Wentz and that he was an MVP candidate, won the SB without him. So was he really an MVP.....Really?

Really....he was...if he wasn't, they'd bench him and start Foles...

Goff first full season also statistically trumped any season Tom Brady had until Tommy’s 6th season in the NFL.

Did Tom Brady win the SB in his first or second season? Just curious....
Dude wasn't throwing like that....didn't need to....defense was too good.
Smart guys don't force passes to #3 threats....they force passes to #1's and #2's....early and often.....did you guys see Matt Ryan....and who...or is it whom? Who was Matty throwing money passes too? 3rd down passes....don't care HOW well he reads a defense....how much "supposed" separation happened all...what, season? Check who or is it whom, who was Tom Brady throwing to in the snow bowl or that super bowl????\

Not trying to be a smart ass.....Just answering...to the best of my ability....

 

[Tano]

13 points by the top scoring offense...

trust me...it hurt me too....

27 points if the receivers catch the damn ball

I should have also added the Rams offense stopped the Rams offense - not Atlanta countering McVay

The Rams just didn't execute when it counted most.

Was it jitters in the Rams first playoff game in 13 years?

 

[Ram65]

How about the Post Snap RPOs? A little something else for defenses to think about.

 

[RamFan503]

So, you do? I mean....it was said about one guy.....and, no one has said, Hey...my coaches did that too....no one...until the 15 second clock...maybe they have....I just haven't heard of it...to this extent...I never said "McVay NEVER did this with Cousins...." Pederson NEVER did this with Wentz.....

Never heard it....

I did hear of those guys making AUDIBLES at the line of scrimmage.....

Going with the "When did you stop beating your wife" line of arguing - eh? Because you never saw anyone reporting about it, it couldn't be happening? Well you took a pretty narrow line of sight then because I remember a couple coaches saying that it was a non-story when it "broke". My boss (former NFL Europe coach) said they do that on both sides of the ball - especially if they see a tell. Why the hell wouldn't they? So yeah I'm going to go with the idea that it happens quite a bit and probably includes the likes of Cousins and Wentz and many others throughout history rather than buy into what some sports hack tried to make a story and controversy out of. Hmm.... guys who have been there done that? Or sports writer trying to sell clicks.... Tough choice.

And for some reason...you guys act like this isn't a big deal....or rather, try to....then you bring up the "others have done it...and adjusted? So, who are these other QB's that waited to receive plays from their OC at the 15 second mark?

Falcons had our offense baffled....confused...stymied....and I guess it was a statistical anomaly....just a random occurrence...

Ok...

Two special teams fumbles didn't help in that - essentially putting our D back on the field for double duty. It was a freaking playoff game. Offenses are generally held more in check during playoff games. You can't have fumbled punts and dropped TD passes in a playoff game. Think about our GSOT. What happened in the playoff game against TB. Did that mean Warner couldn't perform in a playoff game? NE held our unstoppable offense to 17 in SB 36. We barely scored 23 when we won the SB with the top ranked offense.

Meanwhile in the playoff game last year, Goff passed for more yards than Ryan and had zero INTs, Gurley ran for over 100 yards, and Woods had over 50 yards more than their top receiver Jones.

So no. The Falcons didn't have our offense "baffled....confused....stymied. Bad turnovers, poor execution, and bad timing for defensive breakdowns was the cause of us losing that game.

13 points by the top scoring offense...

trust me...it hurt me too....

11 points by the top ranked offense was an anomaly though. Yeah - good point.

Really....he was...if he wasn't, they'd bench him and start Foles...

Wait. That's really your argument? No one said Foles was better than Wentz - on the contrary. But the point was that a journeyman named Foles was not only able to finish out the season but QB them through the SB and win MVP in THAT. So it sure seems to go to figure that it was the team and system that was more important than which QB led the team.

Hell - I was a Wentz guy too. But Goff is our QB and I find it really odd how many back handed compliments you can give him while extoling super star status to Wentz who was in the second year of a pretty good system with a very good and complete team around him.

Our offense carried us last year. And a big part of that was Goff. Face it.

Did Tom Brady win the SB in his first or second season? Just curious....
Dude wasn't throwing like that....didn't need to....defense was too good.
Smart guys don't force passes to #3 threats....they force passes to #1's and #2's....early and often.....did you guys see Matt Ryan....and who...or is it whom? Who was Matty throwing money passes too? 3rd down passes....don't care HOW well he reads a defense....how much "supposed" separation happened all...what, season? Check who or is it whom, who was Tom Brady throwing to in the snow bowl or that super bowl????\

Not trying to be a smart ass.....Just answering...to the best of my ability....

This is too funny. You're making this shit up as you go along. Our top two WRs last year were Kupp and Woods. Who do you think Goff was throwing to? Wow. Got any more "facts" to blow us away with?