Just reminding everyone that Goff is better than Wentz in nearly every statistical category

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Scirca

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It's fine to not understand the physics. It's another to continue to make incorrect statements.

Let me be brief.

Initial ball velocity which you constantly mention IS NOT THE ONLY FACTOR.

Austin Davis iirc had an initial ball velocity of 60mph. NO ONE is going to use the euphemism of "stronger arm" to describe Davis.

Factors like throwing mechanics, ball rotation and trajectory (especially initial launch angle) are all factors.

When all of the factors are in place... in the same location on the same day throwing identical balls...on their best throws... Wentz would throw it slightly farther in the air. Maybe 2 yards. It's not a huge difference.

The ONLY place where this manifests is on long throws with a lower trajectory and longer throws where they are on the move. And again, the differences are minor.

Moreover, these differences aren't the sole measure of the quality of a QB. Far from it. Rather, it's among the least of them.

I mean Jeff George had a CANNON of an arm...WAY stronger than any of the All-Time greats (except maybe Unitas).
It's fine to not understand the physics. It's another to continue to make incorrect statements.

Let me be brief.

Initial ball velocity which you constantly mention IS NOT THE ONLY FACTOR.

Austin Davis iirc had an initial ball velocity of 60mph. NO ONE is going to use the euphemism of "stronger arm" to describe Davis.

Factors like throwing mechanics, ball rotation and trajectory (especially initial launch angle) are all factors.

When all of the factors are in place... in the same location on the same day throwing identical balls...on their best throws... Wentz would throw it slightly farther in the air. Maybe 2 yards. It's not a huge difference.

The ONLY place where this manifests is on long throws with a lower trajectory and longer throws where they are on the move. And again, the differences are minor.

Moreover, these differences aren't the sole measure of the quality of a QB. Far from it. Rather, it's among the least of them.

I mean Jeff George had a CANNON of an arm...WAY stronger than any of the All-Time greats (except maybe Unitas). And he was a coach killer who had a million dollar arm and a nickel head.

If you want to argue for Goff, there are a TON of metrics where his skills really matter... accuracy, touch and deep ball accuracy (his improvement this year alone is staggering) and all of those are better than Wentz.

What doesn't work is using one factor for one metric (Initial ball velocity as the sole determinant of "arm strength") and then extrapolating that into something it isn't.

he was a coach killer who had a million dollar arm and a nickel head.

If you want to argue for Goff, there are a TON of metrics where his skills really matter... accuracy, touch and deep ball accuracy (his improvement this year alone is staggering) and all of those are better than Wentz.

What doesn't work is using one factor for one metric (Initial ball velocity as the sole determinant of "arm strength") and then extrapolating that into something it isn't.

Okay, you're probably right, my physics isn't good enough to dispute that, but when it is, we will debate this properly. However, I do agree with you that when you compare the two, Wentz throws much tighter spirals, which would probably give him that slight edge in the purest form of velocity.
 

Jorgeh0605

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What were their records last year?

Eagles 7-9.
Rams 5-11.

There is your difference I would think.
Hey that's actually a rather neat coincidence! It''l break when we beat the Eagles next week of course. (y)(y)
 

badnews

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Has Wentz ever taken a beatdown on the field? Just no help at all from his line, guys getting to Tee off on him, running free?

Wentz has been great so far, but we dont know enough yet to annoint either him or Goff as the next great QBs.
 

Tron

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First there was Warner vs Bulger!!
giphy.gif


Then Bradford vs Suh!!
giphy.gif


Now a new epic battle has commenced!! Goff vs Wentz!! And lucky for us we will get to argue about this for the next 15-20 years, probably even much longer than that!!
giphy.gif

giphy.gif
 

LesBaker

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I agree. Philly is better at Finishing drives. That falls right at the feet of McVay and Goff. It will get better.

They have also faced some bad defenses and that has helped. Don't get me wrong, that team is fantastic but they are feasting on an easy schedule. Through the halfway point it was 31st and the second half it's 21st on the easy scale.

Both QB's have faced a couple of top 5 defenses this season. Goff against the Jags and Vikes (#1 & #5), and Wentz against the Panthers and Broncos (#2 & #3). I don't think anyone here would care to see the actual qb stats compared from those games, but just take my word for it when I say it's not even close. Wentz wins that comparison going away.

The Broncos are nowhere near the top 5! They are ranked 27th..........and the Panthers are ranked 8th.

At the end of the year the Eagles will likely have played only 3 games against teams with a winning record, the Panthers, Rams and Seahawks. So far they have played ONE and Cam Newton handed the game to the Eagles with 3 INT's.

Other than the Panthers the Eagles haven't faced a good defense.

You are forgetting about the Seahawks when you mention games Goff had against top defenses.
 

Mackeyser

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Okay, you're probably right, my physics isn't good enough to dispute that, but when it is, we will debate this properly. However, I do agree with you that when you compare the two, Wentz throws much tighter spirals, which would probably give him that slight edge in the purest form of velocity.

Yeah, that spiral maintains ballistic stability which translates into greater wind resistance (the spinning creates a laminar airflow over the surface of the ball which reduces the overall air friction) and that allows for a longer period of time to elapse prior to trajectory degradation.

Think of a spinning top. The longer it's balanced, the longer it stays up.

Now...here's the thing. In some conditions, perfect spirals can be less than optimal. In inclement weather, the very thing that makes the ball slip through the air can make it slip through a receiver's grasp, especially in wet or muddy weather.

So, if the QB still understands his trajectory with a less than stable ball, he can achieve certain trajectories that a perfect spiral can't. The perfect example is the ball that drops into the receiver's basket. Warner was an expert at this.

Nolan Ryan became an all-time great not because he could throw it 108mph, but because he learned to mix his pitches up as he grew older.

Some of Warner's best TD passes were kinda ducks...
 

TexasRam

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Both are exciting QB’s and fun to watch.

The TD difference and record is what is driving the Wentz MVP talk. But when one digs into the actual games you see the two are playing at the highest level.

Goff has had WR’s drop at least 8 TD’s in the end zone that I have documented in other posts. His line could easily be 26 TD’s and 5 int. If his WR’s catch those balls.

I wouldn’t trade Kupp trust me. But a drop vs Seattle and fumble vs Minnesota and here we are at 8-3 vs 10-1.

Goff has a rookie and 2nd year TE Wentz has a seasoned pro bowler in Ertz.

Wentz has a pro bowler in Jeffries. Goff has a rookie in Kupp.

Wentz plays with multiple pro bowlers on the Oline. Goff plays with one.

The comparisons could go on including strength of defenses.

Both QB’s are exciting. And way to early to tell if one will be better long term.

Brady’s first 6 years his highest TD total was 28. His 7th year he threw for 50 TD’s.

Did Brady get better in the offseason?

No. He addd Randy Moss.

Stats aren’t everything.
 
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KDS73

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I'll show it - you are fixated on the TD numbers:

Wentz

CAR 16-30, 53.3%, 224 yds, 3 TD, 0 INT ... 110.7 Rating - CAR gives up 93.5 Passer Rating Against
DEN 15-27, 55.6%, 199 yds, 4 TD, 0 INT ... 118.7 Rating - DEN gives up 101.5 Passer Rating Against

Goff

JAX 11-21, 52.4%, 124 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT .... 86.2 Rating - JAX gives up 66.5 Passer Rating Against
SEA 22-47, 46.8%, 288 yds, 0 TD, 2 INT .... 48.9 Rating - SEA gives up 78.1 Passer Rating Against

There's alot of information there, decipher as you choose.


lol. Somehow I knew somebody would go diving into the stats until they found something they could argue with. Believe whatever you want I guess, but the only "deciphering" I'll be getting out of this thread is that I can expect plenty of Rams fans to continue cherry-picking stats to convince themselves that Goff is somehow on the same level that Wentz is this year, when everyone outside of Rams fans knows that it simply isn't true. There's a reason that Wentz is neck-and-neck with Brady for the MVP this year while Goff isn't. But if passer rating stats cherry-picked from the schedule make some of y'all feel better about that, then have at it I guess.
 

Rmfnlt

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First there was Warner vs Bulger!!
giphy.gif


Then Bradford vs Suh!!
giphy.gif


Now a new epic battle has commenced!! Goff vs Wentz!! And lucky for us we will get to argue about this for the next 15-20 years, probably even much longer than that!!
giphy.gif

giphy.gif
Greatness!!
 

Soul Surfer

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Yeah, that spiral maintains ballistic stability which translates into greater wind resistance (the spinning creates a laminar airflow over the surface of the ball which reduces the overall air friction) and that allows for a longer period of time to elapse prior to trajectory degradation.

Think of a spinning top. The longer it's balanced, the longer it stays up.

Now...here's the thing. In some conditions, perfect spirals can be less than optimal. In inclement weather, the very thing that makes the ball slip through the air can make it slip through a receiver's grasp, especially in wet or muddy weather.

So, if the QB still understands his trajectory with a less than stable ball, he can achieve certain trajectories that a perfect spiral can't. The perfect example is the ball that drops into the receiver's basket. Warner was an expert at this.

Nolan Ryan became an all-time great not because he could throw it 108mph, but because he learned to mix his pitches up as he grew older.

Some of Warner's best TD passes were kinda ducks...
Chris Weinke is that you?
 

Angry Ram

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Man these are two very likeable guys at QBs and I'm not a fan of downplaying Carson Wentz.

Philly has nothing to do with LA. Opposite ends of the coast. Different divisions. Different types of teams. Different defenses.

Just enjoy two very good QBs slinging it out there.
 

Soul Surfer

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I'm not a fan of downplaying Carson Wentz.
Neither am I.
I just honestly don't care about Wentz.

Our quarterback is named Jared Goff and however it's happening, he looks REALLY good.

That's all I give a damn about.
 
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LesBaker

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LesBaker

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