Eagles confirm torn ACL for Carson Wentz

[bluecoconuts]

It wasn't a knock...It was a point being made....It's a stat...It's proven....His receivers are wide open most times. Except....
In the red zone....

Yeah, so if McVay schemes guys open more, then why would you expect Goff to have as many "tight window" throws as you call them. Wentz has the highest percentage of those throws at roughly 25%, most in the league. Goff is at 14% which is basically average in the league. That just means that Goff throws to guys who are open more. For all we know half of the throws someone makes that fall under the tight window stat are the wrong throws and they missed a wide open reciever. It doesn't indicate anything about accuracy, that's not what the stat measures.

Not true. Agree to disagree.

I mean, no? This isn't an agree to disagree time, you're wrong. Goff is the 4th best redone QB, with 18 TD's and no picks. Inside 10 yards he has 11 TD's, so he's even better with 10 yards or less. Those are statistics. Wentz, who is also very good in the redzone, Tom Brady, and Wilson are the other 3 in the top 4, in that order.

Again, agree to disagree....although this initially was the case

It was the case, that was the initial point of doing it, to bypass the 15 second cutoff. Just because they also pull other information out to aid them, doesn't take away that the point was to give Tom Brady more information so he could better attack the defense.

Perhaps this is just semantics.....At 15 secs, we know the mic is off....At 15 sec of most plays, Jared's barking out orders....it could be the play, or it could be an audible....whatever it is, it appears he just got the instructions from McVay...

And this is just my personal peeve....I don't like it....doesn't make it bad...or nothing...I just think it delays growth...true growth.

Here's the thing. You use this point to knock Goff, even though everyone has said it's fine, most have said they have experienced similar situations, McVay said sometimes he gives him more sometimes less, sometimes Goff listens sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes he just tells Goff "We're looking to pass here" and Goff calls the play himself. So despite the coach and QB giving you the correct information you use it as a negative. It's not a negative, and it's not slowing down growth, it's speeding it up. McVay can literally tell Goff "pass" and Goff knows the situation, and what group of plays McVay would call based on what's going on on the field, and then picks a play. That shows that Goff is starting to see the field like McVay does, like a coach. That's what Manning and Brady can do, it shows he's very smart and very much able to handle this. So why are you taking it as a negative?

All these guys can catch the ball....all are in the pros for a reason...contested catches are part of the game...you won't be wide open all the time.

They're also young, thus far they haven't shown the ability to consistently catch those contested balls, but most have shown they will probably get there. Jeffery is one of the best at doing that, you can't compare our guys to him.

And Watkins does have a bad habit of being lazy, I mean the saints pick was a great example. If this is news to you, you haven't been watching, because it was talked about weeks ago.

hmmm
Goff looked great....Wentz looked great...everybody gets an "A"....love it

It's possible for both QB's to play a great game. Frankly the difference in this game wasn't Goff or Wentz, it was the officials. Both QB's played great, Goff was very efficient with the limited plays out offense ran, Wentz was great as well. Both QB's lived up to the hype, it was a great game that was unfortunately swayed by bad officials.

I saw a throw Brady made vs the Dolphins...bout to get hit....threw an arching pass, right on a dime....as the receiver ran under it....put it right on his hands...incredible pass...play...They do it every game....if you're looking closely. Ben does it too....What's your point?

Brady doesn't make those holy shit plays like Big Ben, or Russel Wilson or even Carson Wentz. He doesn't have the size like Ben and Wentz, and he doesn't need to like Wilson. He just plays good football, which is exactly what Goff does. Stands tall in the pocket and drops dimes when a defender is coming at him.

Just because Goff doesn't run wild at the first sign of pressure and make something crazy happen doesn't mean he's not making impressive moves. And we've seen him adjust a play on the fly when the ball was already snapped to make something (a TD) out of nothing.

Wilson and Wentz beat teams with their legs. Manning, Brady, Brees, all beat teams with their brain. That's how Goff works, he beats them by playing smart football with a smart coach. Doesn't rely on luck, doesn't rely on something crazy, doesn't rely on things going just right, it just works. That's traditionally been the ticket to a long career at the top.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Yeah, so if McVay schemes guys open more, then why would you expect Goff to have as many "tight window" throws as you call them.

Because there will be times when guys aren't "wide" open....those times are coming....we had them last game...esp. in the 4th quarter.

It doesn't indicate anything about accuracy, that's not what the stat measures.

Tight windows show a QB's ability to place a ball between and around defensive players. Which requires accuracy.

I mean, no? This isn't an agree to disagree time, you're wrong. Goff is the 4th best redone QB, with 18 TD's and no picks. Inside 10 yards he has 11 TD's, so he's even better with 10 yards or less.

For the amount of times this offense is in the redzone...he's performing poorly...IMO....
You're measuring picks....
I'm considering the %%% of when in the RZ what happens? FG's or TD's.

It was the case, that was the initial point of doing it, to bypass the 15 second cutoff. Just because they also pull other information out to aid them, doesn't take away that the point was to give Tom Brady more information so he could better attack the defense.

Ok, so they were penalized for filming opponents defensive hand signals? That's your take?

I say they were penalized for some real cheating, that they filmed and was destroyed by the league.

Here's the thing. You use this point to knock Goff, even though everyone has said it's fine, most have said they have experienced similar situations, McVay said sometimes he gives him more sometimes less, sometimes Goff listens sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes he just tells Goff "We're looking to pass here" and Goff calls the play himself. So despite the coach and QB giving you the correct information you use it as a negative. It's not a negative, and it's not slowing down growth, it's speeding it up. McVay can literally tell Goff "pass" and Goff knows the situation, and what group of plays McVay would call based on what's going on on the field, and then picks a play. That shows that Goff is starting to see the field like McVay does, like a coach. That's what Manning and Brady can do, it shows he's very smart and very much able to handle this. So why are you taking it as a negative?

This is another take I found:
http://www.stack.com/a/the-ingeniou...sletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=12-09-17

A driving force behind Goff's improved play has been an ingenious in-game tactic employed by Rams first-year head coach Sean McVay. It centers around the coach-to-quarterback radio technology employed by NFL teams. Introduced in 1994, the system helps offensive coaches discuss plays and strategies with their quarterback throughout the game. There's one catch, though—the radio cuts off when the play clock hits 15 seconds, limiting the coach's ability to call pre-snap reads or audibles based off the defense's alignment.


McVay hasn't tried to decipher a way to communicate with Goff during those final 15 seconds of the play clock. Instead, he's focused on maximizing the amount of time that's available before the 15-second cutoff. The Rams offense strives to get to the line of scrimmage very quickly. This forces the defense to line up equally fast, lest they risk giving up easy yardage. So the defense typically shows their hand well before the 15-second communication cutoff, affording McVay time to relay in pre-snap reads and audibles to Goff. Mark Bullock, a contributing NFL writer for the Washington Post, first noticed the tactic during a SoundFXsegment.

Around the 1:15 mark, you can hear McVay radio in a "Wilson Hoosier" call before Goff yells it to the rest of the offense. Seconds later, you can hear him do the same for an "Elvis" call. He then proceeds to call a number of other audibles, ranging from "Tupac" to "Ric Flair."

It's an ingenious tactic from McVay, as it allows him and his offensive staff time to analyze the defense before communicating with Goff. That simplifies things for the second-year signal caller, who at times was overwhelmed with the intricacies of the position last season. It also doesn't wind the Rams offensive players like a Chip Kelly-style fast-paced offense would, since they're simply lining up quickly but still getting sufficient rest between snaps. Kudos to McVay for finding a simple, effective way to help Goff navigate the hardest position in all of sports.

My personal feelings...mine...I say it's gonna hinder him in the future...you say it's a great tactic like the writer...whatever...he needs McVay to point out stuff other QB's seem to do on their own...no biggie.

And Watkins does have a bad habit of being lazy, I mean the saints pick was a great example. If this is news to you, you haven't been watching, because it was talked about weeks ago.

Lazy?!?
Why would we play a "LAZY" player? What type of message does that send to a team? I read people complaining about plays on balls....that Watkins wasn't running all out....didn't know it was coming his way. Yada yada yada....I would HOPE there is no way a lazy player isn't benched immediately...hell, should be cut if true.

It's possible for both QB's to play a great game. Frankly the difference in this game wasn't Goff or Wentz, it was the officials. Both QB's played great, Goff was very efficient with the limited plays out offense ran

Oh yeah? Great? I don't think either QB played great....Hell, Goff was 2 of 7 on 3rd down....maybe a good 3rd quarter....but 4th quarter? Winning time??? Looked pretty bad to me...doesn't equal great....not even good. Decent overall game. I'm sure he'd say something similar.

Brady doesn't make those holy crap plays like Big Ben, or Russel Wilson or even Carson Wentz.

Brady makes great throws almost every game....that I've seen....throws...guys all around....throws...
Scrambling is just one aspect of mobile QB's games....it's the throws that make guys go wow. If you're not mobile, you can still make wow throws....Goff made a few to Kupp last game. Wentz made a few more...on 3rd down...and some 4th down stuff too.

Wilson and Wentz beat teams with their legs.

OK....We just saw Wentz...we'll see Wilson in 3 days....and he'll be passing the ball.....as well as running too.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Because there will be times when guys aren't "wide" open....those times are coming....we had them last game...esp. in the 4th quarter.

Goff has shown he is accurate and he has not shown that he can't hit those tight windows. We see him hit tight windows all the time. Just because Wentz plays in a system that doesn't have guys open like Goff and the Rams, it doesn't mean that Goff is incapable of doing the same. The statistic for tight windows (measured as aggressiveness) says that on 25% of Wentz throws he tries to hit a tight window, where Goff does it on 14% of his throws. What it doesn't say is how often they connect on these throws.

Tight windows show a QB's ability to place a ball between and around defensive players. Which requires accuracy.

That statistic doesn't measure accuracy, it counts all attempts, not completions. Wentz has thrown more passes like this, but he almost assuredly has a higher raw number, but we have no idea what the completion percentage is on those passes. Right now the only measure on accuracy shows that Goff is more accurate than Wentz.

For the amount of times this offense is in the redzone...he's performing poorly...IMO....
You're measuring picks....
I'm considering the %%% of when in the RZ what happens? FG's or TD's.

I'm not measuring picks, I just went off of the redzone passing stats. Goff is 4th on that list.

He's good in the redzone. Not as good as Wentz, thus far this year, but he's good. I would like them to be better, but that doesn't mean they're still not good. I expect them to get better as McVay gets better. Goff has always been a great redzone QB, back to when he was in high school. This is nothing new for him, and that's why it's not surprising that he's ranked 4th. Our TD vs FG ratio is more connected to the play calling than the QB.

Ok, so they were penalized for filming opponents defensive hand signals? That's your take?

I say they were penalized for some real cheating, that they filmed and was destroyed by the league.

I'm not talking about the penalties, that means nothing, I'm talking about the reason. The reason why they did it was to give Tom Brady information after the 15 second cutoff time. That is the reason why they did it, and it's also the reason why your hot take on Goff being stupid or a slow learner with limited upside is bad.

This is another take I found:
http://www.stack.com/a/the-ingeniou...sletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=12-09-17

My personal feelings...mine...I say it's gonna hinder him in the future...you say it's a great tactic like the writer...whatever...he needs McVay to point out stuff other QB's seem to do on their own...no biggie.

Is that take from Goff and McVay like mine? Because if not (and it's not because I did read it) then why would you even bring that up? Again, I'm repeating to you what Goff and McVay have said. It's not my opinion, that's the truth straight from the horses mouth. You're basically saying your personal feelings say that 2+2=5 and I'm telling you that your personal feelings don't mean you're right.

The worst part is that even though you've been told repeatedly what the facts are you hang onto your "personal feelings" and try to argue otherwise. What's your endgame here? Seriously, because there's no logic as to why you refuse to listen to the only two people who have weighed in on the subject who know exactly what happened. That entire bit when they're trying to claim that McVay is calling audibles is wrong, they have already said McVay was calling the play and Goff was repeating it.

Lazy?!?
Why would we play a "LAZY" player? What type of message does that send to a team? I read people complaining about plays on balls....that Watkins wasn't running all out....didn't know it was coming his way. Yada yada yada....I would HOPE there is no way a lazy player isn't benched immediately...hell, should be cut if true.

Because he still draws defenders and can do great things. That's what being lazy is, if you're not giving 100% on every play you're being lazy, that's sports 101, you don't slack off just because you don't have the ball. Watkins has a bad habit of taking routes off and being lazy. Probably a lot to do with his days in Buffalo, but maybe it's just how he is. I didn't watch him in college, so I don't know.

Oh yeah? Great? I don't think either QB played great....Hell, Goff was 2 of 7 on 3rd down....maybe a good 3rd quarter....but 4th quarter? Winning time??? Looked pretty bad to me...doesn't equal great....not even good. Decent overall game. I'm sure he'd say something similar.

Oh please, you've been telling everyone that Wentz was great all week long, now you're trying to say he wasn't so you can say that Goff was bad too. Wentz was worse on 3rd down, the Rams very the more efficient team on offense, which is part of why they only had 7 3rd downs compared to 20 that the Eagles ran. Both QB's played good games, the deciding factor was the officials.

Brady makes great throws almost every game....that I've seen....throws...guys all around....throws...
Scrambling is just one aspect of mobile QB's games....it's the throws that make guys go wow. If you're not mobile, you can still make wow throws....Goff made a few to Kupp last game. Wentz made a few more...on 3rd down...and some 4th down stuff too.

Goff makes great throws almost every game as well, I'm talking about the sandlot plays that Wilson can run, or when Wentz had that 40 yard pass while being tackled in the Seahawks game. Guys like Brady don't beat teams like that, neither does Goff. The problem is you're looking at those plays and making a determination, it's a different play style, you shouldn't try to compare them like that.

Goff also makes a lot of amazing throws on 3rd down, and sometimes on 4th too, so adding in that qualifier under Wentz to try to make it seem like Goff doesn't do that doesn't work.

OK....We just saw Wentz...we'll see Wilson in 3 days....and he'll be passing the ball.....as well as running too.

Wilson cant beat teams by staying in the pocket, he's too short, and he hasn't figured out how to make lanes in the pocket like Brees has (it's a rare trait that Brees has). Wilson has to escape to give himself throwing lanes, it's just how it is. Wentz has the mobility and physical strength to make plays with his legs too, and the reason why he bails so much might simply be because he's more comfortable there than inside the pocket. Those sandlot plays are exciting to watch but require a lot of things going right, vs how Goff (and many other greats) does it where they just win by making good passes and running good plays.

 

[UKram]

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads/goff-observation.52304/page-2#post-990351

To even compare Kupp to Brian Quit ... just no .. it’s not even close ... that’s redic even for Champ

 

[LACHAMP46]

That is the reason why they did it, and it's also the reason why your hot take on Goff being stupid or a slow learner with limited upside is bad.

You keep saying I called him stupid....slow learner....
Never said any of that....perhaps that's what you think I'm trying to say....I'm not...

I haven't thought about his upside much....not since the draft.

Most improvement for NFL players is between the 1st and 2nd years.

Is that take from Goff and McVay like mine? Because if not (and it's not because I did read it) then why would you even bring that up? Again, I'm repeating to you what Goff and McVay have said. It's not my opinion, that's the truth straight from the horses mouth. You're basically saying your personal feelings say that 2+2=5 and I'm telling you that your personal feelings don't mean you're right.

If you listen to the tape....I think you can hear the play calls....right around the 15: sec mark or later....My point was, these are McVay's calls...not anything HE sees, but what McVay and LaFleur see....and yes, I don't think...me personally...I don't think that's helping him get better...sometimes, you gotta fail to learn....IMO....

The worst part is that even though you've been told repeatedly what the facts are you hang onto your "personal feelings" and try to argue otherwise.

that's what an opinion is....and I'm an opinionated person.

Oh please, you've been telling everyone that Wentz was great all week long, now you're trying to say he wasn't so you can say that Goff was bad too. Wentz was worse on 3rd down

I'll state here...for you....I said he's better than Goff....since the draft...since the beginning of this year....and definitely in the last game.
I don't see how he was worse than Goff on 3rd down...but that's YOUR opinion....no matter what the stats say...and unlike you, I'm not gonna try to make you change it. I don't really think you believe that yourself.

the Rams very the more efficient team on offense, which is part of why they only had 7 3rd downs compared to 20 that the Eagles ran. Both QB's played good games, the deciding factor was the officials.

Really?
I never blame the officials...That's part of the game...Players have a chance to change the outcome....Make some plays...esp. in that 4th quarter.

Wilson cant beat teams by staying in the pocket

IDK....seems like Russell can do almost anything in the pocket...or outside it as well...He's probably a top 5 QB in the game right now....

You guys seem to think scrambling QB's are the worst thing ever...they've been around for awhile....most successful QB's of the past were phenomenal athletes. This pocket QB craze is.....crazy....as long as a QB gets it done...it shouldn't matter how he does it....that's the thing....you keep trying to defend a guy...Goff...from my observations....I say he's a good young QB....not a great one...not a first overall one...one we can win with....against the best teams he'll need some help....great defensive game....ST's plays....something...unless he can...as most on here seem to believe...unless he can improve....red zone stuff...accuracy stuff....4th quarter stuff. Beating good teams takes a great QB effort...that's all I'm saying...

And Wentz was playing like a great QB...That 2nd quarter was different...those 3rd down conversions were different...so were some those 4th down conversions.

I was hoping Goff went down and scored in the 4th quarter....that fumble hurt me too....That last drive...well, that just pissed me off.

 

[bluecoconuts]

You keep saying I called him stupid....slow learner....
Never said any of that....perhaps that's what you think I'm trying to say....I'm not...

I haven't thought about his upside much....not since the draft.

Most improvement for NFL players is between the 1st and 2nd years.

You keep questioning his mental ability to play the position, and saying that McVay has to give him information and suggesting it can or is stunting his development. So what really is your point then? Goff is literally having a record breaking first to second year leap in ability as well, I'm not really sure what you're getting at to be honest, that's he's done developing? That's just silly.

If you listen to the tape....I think you can hear the play calls....right around the 15: sec mark or later....My point was, these are McVay's calls...not anything HE sees, but what McVay and LaFleur see....and yes, I don't think...me personally...I don't think that's helping him get better...sometimes, you gotta fail to learn....IMO....

I know, and Goff and McVay have already said that the tape makes it seem like McVay was giving Goff audibles, but he was calling the play. So again, stop with this line. I don't know how I can say it any clearer, McVay was giving Goff the play in that video. Goff makes adjustments, calls plays, audibles, or even changes while the ball is live on his own every single game. Every single game there are plays where McVay is talking right up to the 15 second cutoff, and times where McVay doesn't even call a play and tells Goff to pick a passing or a running play based on what he sees. Again, this is straight from the horses mouth, so stop trying to challenge it or argue because the truth has already been put out there. Why do you refuse to listen to what McVay and Goff said here?

that's what an opinion is....and I'm an opinionated person.

Math is hard is an opinion. 2+2=5 is not, it's just an incorrect answer. I know you're opinion, but opinions don't excuse being wrong. If the facts are there and you're saying otherwise, it's just being wrong. You have the answer to the question.

I'll state here...for you....I said he's better than Goff....since the draft...since the beginning of this year....and definitely in the last game.
I don't see how he was worse than Goff on 3rd down...but that's YOUR opinion....no matter what the stats say...and unlike you, I'm not gonna try to make you change it. I don't really think you believe that yourself.

So basically you're saying that stats don't matter because it doesn't go along with what you want to believe. Facts don't matter as long as feelings don't get hurt. Got it.

Really?
I never blame the officials...That's part of the game...Players have a chance to change the outcome....Make some plays...esp. in that 4th quarter.

I'm saying that Wentz isn't why the Eagles won the game, the Rams were right there the entire time. I'm saying that bullshit drive extending penalties such as the leverage play and the unsportsmanlike on Tru were the difference. The leverage play is the reason why the Rams had 2 seconds left to play instead of over a minute, and the Tru penalty is 7 points that wouldn't have been there. 14 if someone wants to throw in the PI which I felt was way too ticky tacky for that type of game. That was the difference in this game. Wentz missed on those throws, the refs helped him. The Rams stopped the Eagles, the Refs helped them. It is what it is, that happens sometimes. Both QB's did what they needed to do to win the game, and the needle was pushed by a few poor calls. Had the game not been close, I wouldn't say that, but it was, and that was the big difference.

IDK....seems like Russell can do almost anything in the pocket...or outside it as well...He's probably a top 5 QB in the game right now....

I think he's a great QB, but he simply can't see over his linemen, they're almost a full foot taller than he is, that's why he has to use his legs so much, vs someone like Drew Brees who doesn't. Drew Brees had to learn how to make throwing lanes and gaps within the pocket, Wilson's natural running ability allowed him to avoid being forced into learning how to play like Brees. It's not a knock against Wilson, his ability to make those sandlot plays is amazing.

You guys seem to think scrambling QB's are the worst thing ever...they've been around for awhile....most successful QB's of the past were phenomenal athletes. This pocket QB craze is.....crazy....as long as a QB gets it done...it shouldn't matter how he does it....that's the thing....you keep trying to defend a guy...Goff...from my observations....I say he's a good young QB....not a great one...not a first overall one...one we can win with....against the best teams he'll need some help....great defensive game....ST's plays....something...unless he can...as most on here seem to believe...unless he can improve....red zone stuff...accuracy stuff....4th quarter stuff. Beating good teams takes a great QB effort...that's all I'm saying...

Nothing wrong with a scrambling QB, I'm just not wowed by a QB's ability to scramble. The problem with most scrambling QB's is that they're built like a QB but run like a running back or receiver, which results in injuries. I'm not interested in having a QB who'll light the world on fire for half a season, I want a QB that plays at a high level and who's going to be in contention to be the iron man, because in the long run that's going to be more important. You don't help your team if you're in the sideline. Wilson is very smart with how he avoids hits, I don't know any other scrambling QB who's like that at this point.

You don't think Goff has what it takes to lead this team somewhere, I'm saying he does, that's what this debate is about. I think Goff was the better pick for our team, and I think he's going to have a better career when it's all said in done. That's stuff we'll have to wait and see, since nobody knows the future. I base a lot of what I think about Goff on what he's doing and what he's capable of, you seem to base everything that Goff does on what Wentz is doing.

Wentz doesn't impact Goff's development, Goff and McVay does. Wentz can jump off a cliff, cure cancer, and punch Goodell out of the Earths atmosphere for all I care, it doesn't impact what Goff does.

 

[LACHAMP46]

You keep questioning his mental ability to play the position, and saying that McVay has to give him information and suggesting it can or is stunting his development. So what really is your point then? Goff is literally having a record breaking first to second year leap in ability as well, I'm not really sure what you're getting at to be honest, that's he's done developing? That's just silly.

I know, and Goff and McVay have already said that the tape makes it seem like McVay was giving Goff audibles, but he was calling the play. So again, stop with this line. I don't know how I can say it any clearer, McVay was giving Goff the play in that video. Goff makes adjustments, calls plays, audibles, or even changes while the ball is live on his own every single game. Every single game there are plays where McVay is talking right up to the 15 second cutoff, and times where McVay doesn't even call a play and tells Goff to pick a passing or a running play based on what he sees. Again, this is straight from the horses mouth, so stop trying to challenge it or argue because the truth has already been put out there. Why do you refuse to listen to what McVay and Goff said here?

Having McVay call plays based on the alignment and personnel on the field is a crutch...I don't think predetermining throws is helpful in a QB's long term development...Cut the umbilical cord....let him grow.

So basically you're saying that stats don't matter because it doesn't go along with what you want to believe. Facts don't matter as long as feelings don't get hurt. Got it.

Stats do matter....in large sample sizes. Some stats do lie. Sorta like they both had a turnover....Goff's was the fumble....Wentz was the int in the 1st quarter. Goff's was a bigger play because it was later....and I believe caused by holding the ball too long. Wentz threw on target...but the receiver bobbled the ball to the defender. Totally different effects on the game...Totally different causes...but both considered turnovers...Stats lie...

I'm saying that Wentz isn't why the Eagles won the game, the Rams were right there the entire time. I'm saying that bullcrap drive extending penalties such as the leverage play and the unsportsmanlike on Tru were the difference. The leverage play is the reason why the Rams had 2 seconds left to play instead of over a minute, and the Tru penalty is 7 points that wouldn't have been there. 14 if someone wants to throw in the PI which I felt was way too ticky tacky for that type of game. That was the difference in this game. Wentz missed on those throws, the refs helped him. The Rams stopped the Eagles, the Refs helped them. It is what it is, that happens sometimes. Both QB's did what they needed to do to win the game, and the needle was pushed by a few poor calls. Had the game not been close, I wouldn't say that, but it was, and that was the big difference.

Wentz took control of the game in the first half...scored a crucial td in the 3rd quarter before leaving. No more td's were scored by the Eagles.

We had a chance to win the game in the 4th....one ended on the fumble...the last was a 3 and out...Penalties didn't lose the game. The inability to execute in the crunch did. Players lose games.

I think he's a great QB, but he simply can't see over his linemen, they're almost a full foot taller than he is, that's why he has to use his legs so much, vs someone like Drew Brees who doesn't. Drew Brees had to learn how to make throwing lanes and gaps within the pocket, Wilson's natural running ability allowed him to avoid being forced into learning how to play like Brees.

All QB's throw through passing lanes created by the offensive line....not just the short guys...all of them...if you line up behind them you can see this. Stepping up into throwing lanes is what all QB's learn to do and be successful.

You don't think Goff has what it takes to lead this team somewhere, I'm saying he does, that's what this debate is about. I think Goff was the better pick for our team, and I think he's going to have a better career when it's all said in done. That's stuff we'll have to wait and see, since nobody knows the future. I base a lot of what I think about Goff on what he's doing and what he's capable of, you seem to base everything that Goff does on what Wentz is doing.

Goff's a good QB....decent. The Rams have had a bunch of good QB's....When we had a spectacular one, Kurt Warner, we won our only SB....and competed for others.
Wentz appears to be spectacular....he was in the MVP conversation for a reason.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Having McVay call plays based on the alignment and personnel on the field is a crutch...I don't think predetermining throws is helpful in a QB's long term development...Cut the umbilical cord....let him grow.


Stats do matter....in large sample sizes. Some stats do lie. Sorta like they both had a turnover....Goff's was the fumble....Wentz was the int in the 1st quarter. Goff's was a bigger play because it was later....and I believe caused by holding the ball too long. Wentz threw on target...but the receiver bobbled the ball to the defender. Totally different effects on the game...Totally different causes...but both considered turnovers...Stats lie...

Wentz took control of the game in the first half...scored a crucial td in the 3rd quarter before leaving. No more td's were scored by the Eagles.

We had a chance to win the game in the 4th....one ended on the fumble...the last was a 3 and out...Penalties didn't lose the game. The inability to execute in the crunch did. Players lose games.


All QB's throw through passing lanes created by the offensive line....not just the short guys...all of them...if you line up behind them you can see this. Stepping up into throwing lanes is what all QB's learn to do and be successful.


Goff's a good QB....decent. The Rams have had a bunch of good QB's....When we had a spectacular one, Kurt Warner, we won our only SB....and competed for others.
Wentz appears to be spectacular....he was in the MVP conversation for a reason.

I just have one question Champ

Who do you think between Goff and Caaarson ( read this in your wimpy-est voice) has the better day tomorrow?:rimshot:

Carry on, I gots to give it to you, you’re very good at stirring the pot?

 

[LACHAMP46]

Who do you think between Goff and Caaarson ( read this in your wimpy-est voice) has the better day tomorrow?

Well, Carson can't win the game tomorrow....and he can't lose it either....so, we won't know until tomorrow comes...feel me?

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Well, Carson can't win the game tomorrow....and he can't lose it either....so, we won't know until tomorrow comes...feel me?

Not feeling you at all to be honest

Tomorrow the Rams are going to have their “finest hour” of the year...and with the hole you’ve dug here for yourself you’re gonna be left out ( tho I know deep inside you’ll also enjoy it)

 

[LACHAMP46]

Not feeling you at all to be honest

Tomorrow the Rams are going to have their “finest hour” of the year...and with the hole you’ve dug here for yourself you’re gonna be left out ( tho I know deep inside you’ll also enjoy it)

I'm hoping so....


But that's a huge if....

Point being...only one guy can have a good/great game tomorrow.....and only one guy can have a bad one.

 

[Prime Time]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-as-acl-but-injury-wont-change-playing-style/

Carson Wentz tore LCL as well as ACL, but injury won’t change his playing style
Posted by Charean Williams on January 26, 2018

Getty Images

Carson Wentz spoke to reporters for the first time since his left knee injury, revealing Friday he tore the LCL as well as the ACL. While the timeline is fluid, the Eagles quarterback is confident he can return for the season opener.

“I truly believe,” Wentz said of his timetable, via Zach Berman of phillynews.com. “My goal is to be ready for Week 1. I’m going to push and do everything I can to be ready. I’m very confident in that.”

Wentz was having an MVP-type season when he was injured in Week 14 against the Rams. He isn’t sure exactly when the injury occurred, whether it was on his touchdown run that was negated by a penalty or earlier. He said he just knew something was wrong.

Just like that, his season was over.

“I 100 percent believe I’ll be back better than ever, stronger than ever, and with no looking back,” Wentz said.

Wentz won’t let the injury change his playing style, vowing to continue playing the way he plays.

“I am who I am,” he said. “Injuries happen. Injuries are not going to change me. . . . Guys want to talk, ‘Are you learning to protect yourself?’ . . . That’ll continue to grow and develop, but as far as being aggressive and the player I am, that won’t change.”

Nick Foles has replaced Wentz, and the Eagles haven’t missed a beat. While Wentz is the Eagles’ biggest cheerleader, he admits it’s not easy watching his teammates take the field without him.

“It’s tough,” Wentz said. “It hits me a little bit. . . . Then, I’m in it, because I love these guys, and I’m a part of these guys as much as anyone else. I get involved in the game, and it all goes away.”

 

[CGI_Ram]

I can’t imagine playing as well as Wentz has, to have to watch the team finish with someone else playing in your spot.

He’s young. He’ll be back. Still gotta sting.

 

[CGI_Ram]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...es-heres-carson-wentzs-acl-recovery-timeline/

As Nick Foles QBs Eagles, here's Carson Wentz's recovery timeline

The long-term question becomes: When will Wentz be healthy enough to return to the field?

When it comes to recovering from ACL surgery, there is no straightforward answer. Typically, it can be anywhere from 9-12 months until a player is able to return to the field. But quarterbacks are different than other football players in that they spend most of their time in or near the pocket and aren't required to run, cut, plant and jump on nearly every play. But even among quarterbacks there are differences.

Philip Rivers, who actually played a playoff game after tearing his ACL, was never the mobile threat that Wentz is. It's also worth noting that Rivers' gutsy performance wasn't particularly effective (though amazing given the circumstances): 19 of 37 for 211 yards, no touchdowns, two interceptions.

This isn't a surprise since the ACL -- the anterior cruciate ligament -- stabilizes the knee. Living permanently without an ACL is a reality for many people but it would also mean an end to football player's career.

Wentz's athleticism was a big part of the Eagles' offense -- the run-pass options (RPOs), the rollouts, the scrambles. Put another way: It will take longer for Wentz to return to that style of play than it will for him to return as a "pocket passer."

Days after Wentz's injury -- but before his surgery, which was performed by Dr. James Bradley, an orthopedic knee specialist based in Pittsburgh who also serves as the Steelers' team doctor -- ESPN's Chris Mortensen spoke with another noted orthopedic specialist, Dr. James Andrews, who spoke in general terms about ACL recoveries.

"[Bradley] told me ... that expectation should be tempered for a player with an ACL surgery to return by start of '18 season," Mortensen tweeted. "He says ACL repairs need 9-to-12 months."

We can all agree that Adrian Peterson is a freak. Even more freakish is that he started in Week 1 of the 2012 season, nine months after his injury, started 15 more games, and finished with 2,097 rushing yards and 12 touchdowns.

But there is only one Adrian Peterson.

There have been other, less successful examples of players returning too soon; Robert Griffin III tore his ACL during a January 2013 playoff game. He missed the following training camp and preseason, but started Week 1 of the regular season and was never the same quarterback we saw as a rookie.

But there are success stories too; Tom Brady (torn ACL, September 2008) is, well, Tom Brady. Carson Palmer tore his ACL in November 2014, returned to play all 16 games in 2015 and threw for 4,671 yards with 35 touchdowns, 11 interceptions and a 104.6 passer rating.

The point: If a player doesn't rush rehab, they return to their pre-injury form. So what are the realistic expectations for Wentz?

"I think he could do well enough to participate in limited fashion in throwing as early as [late May, early June] offseason programs," Dr. David Chao, an orthopedic surgeon, told the San Diego Union-Tribune shortly after Wentz's injury. "I think he'll be able to throw well before training camp.

But when will he be game ready? I think he has a chance to be game ready as more of a pocket quarterback come the first week of the season. But if you want him to be run-pass-option guy and be himself, look for midseason for maybe even a little bit longer."

In case you're wondering, Foles is signed through the 2018 season and his $7.6 million cap hit suddenly seems like a ridiculous bargain.

 

[TexasRam]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...es-heres-carson-wentzs-acl-recovery-timeline/

As Nick Foles QBs Eagles, here's Carson Wentz's recovery timeline

The long-term question becomes: When will Wentz be healthy enough to return to the field?

When it comes to recovering from ACL surgery, there is no straightforward answer. Typically, it can be anywhere from 9-12 months until a player is able to return to the field. But quarterbacks are different than other football players in that they spend most of their time in or near the pocket and aren't required to run, cut, plant and jump on nearly every play. But even among quarterbacks there are differences.

Philip Rivers, who actually played a playoff game after tearing his ACL, was never the mobile threat that Wentz is. It's also worth noting that Rivers' gutsy performance wasn't particularly effective (though amazing given the circumstances): 19 of 37 for 211 yards, no touchdowns, two interceptions.

This isn't a surprise since the ACL -- the anterior cruciate ligament -- stabilizes the knee. Living permanently without an ACL is a reality for many people but it would also mean an end to football player's career.

Wentz's athleticism was a big part of the Eagles' offense -- the run-pass options (RPOs), the rollouts, the scrambles. Put another way: It will take longer for Wentz to return to that style of play than it will for him to return as a "pocket passer."

Days after Wentz's injury -- but before his surgery, which was performed by Dr. James Bradley, an orthopedic knee specialist based in Pittsburgh who also serves as the Steelers' team doctor -- ESPN's Chris Mortensen spoke with another noted orthopedic specialist, Dr. James Andrews, who spoke in general terms about ACL recoveries.

"[Bradley] told me ... that expectation should be tempered for a player with an ACL surgery to return by start of '18 season," Mortensen tweeted. "He says ACL repairs need 9-to-12 months."

We can all agree that Adrian Peterson is a freak. Even more freakish is that he started in Week 1 of the 2012 season, nine months after his injury, started 15 more games, and finished with 2,097 rushing yards and 12 touchdowns.

But there is only one Adrian Peterson.

There have been other, less successful examples of players returning too soon; Robert Griffin III tore his ACL during a January 2013 playoff game. He missed the following training camp and preseason, but started Week 1 of the regular season and was never the same quarterback we saw as a rookie.

But there are success stories too; Tom Brady (torn ACL, September 2008) is, well, Tom Brady. Carson Palmer tore his ACL in November 2014, returned to play all 16 games in 2015 and threw for 4,671 yards with 35 touchdowns, 11 interceptions and a 104.6 passer rating.

The point: If a player doesn't rush rehab, they return to their pre-injury form. So what are the realistic expectations for Wentz?

"I think he could do well enough to participate in limited fashion in throwing as early as [late May, early June] offseason programs," Dr. David Chao, an orthopedic surgeon, told the San Diego Union-Tribune shortly after Wentz's injury. "I think he'll be able to throw well before training camp.

But when will he be game ready? I think he has a chance to be game ready as more of a pocket quarterback come the first week of the season. But if you want him to be run-pass-option guy and be himself, look for midseason for maybe even a little bit longer."

In case you're wondering, Foles is signed through the 2018 season and his $7.6 million cap hit suddenly seems like a ridiculous bargain.

Rushing Wentz back would be asinine.
He’s so young with so many years of football in front of him. Plus, with that Oline sporting 4 Pro Bowlers and that defense, they are going to win their games with Foles. The wins vs Atlanta and Minnesota solidified that.

 

[FarNorth]

Rushing Wentz back would be asinine.
He’s so young with so many years of football in front of him. Plus, with that Oline sporting 4 Pro Bowlers and that defense, they are going to win their games with Foles. The wins vs Atlanta and Minnesota solidified that.

Wentz needs to take his time recovering. He may think he will be ready for the start of the season, but the repaired acl might not be. In any event, imo Wentz needs to learn to run more strategically and avoid hits or he is at risk of more such injuries. And his coach needs to adapt too.