Not impressed with the hands up BS displayed by the Rams WRs

[RamzFanz]

And how many times did Johnson change his story before "verifying it"? He's not a credible witness.

The fact that Johnson lied to cover for Brown would lend credence to the fact that he handed off the cigars. Why would Johnson confirm Wilson's story?

 

[-X-]

Don't care about injustices in the world. I care about injustices here.

Well that's a sad testimony. I'm sorry to hear that.

 

[jrry32]

The fact that Johnson lied to cover for Brown would lend credence to the fact that he handed off the cigars. Why would Brown confirm Wilson's story?

Because Brown is dead and Johnson could be considered an accomplice to the robbery.

It cuts both ways. You can't argue that he lacks credibility and then claim that he's credible when he confirms Wilson's account.

 

[jrry32]

Well that's a sad testimony. I'm sorry to hear that.

Be sorry. Can't do anything about injustices in Africa. I can do something about them here. Even if it's not much, I have a hand in our government.

 

[-X-]

Be sorry. Can't do anything about injustices in Africa. I can do something about them here. Even if it's not much, I have a hand in our government.

Relax, man. I didn't say I was sorry for you. Just that I was sorry to hear it. You're perfectly entitled to concentrate only on your community or Country. I'm not disparaging you for that. Some things like hunger (we sponsor a few kids) and animal cruelty are global problems, and I think they deserve some attention too. I'm still trying to find a way to get involved in the human trafficking problem in some capacity. If you read about some of the young girls (and boys) that get abducted from the US only to become heroin-addicted sex slaves in other Countries ... you might change your mind.

 

[jrry32]

Relax, man. I didn't say I was sorry for you. Just that I was sorry to hear it. You're perfectly entitled to concentrate only on your community or Country. I'm not disparaging you for that. Some things like hunger (we sponsor a few kids) and animal cruelty are global problems, and I think they deserve some attention too. I'm still trying to find a way to get involved in the human trafficking problem in some capacity. If you read about some of the young girls (and boys) that get abducted from the US only to become heroin-addicted sex slaves in other Countries ... you might change your mind.

I'm not angry. I'm just telling you that you can feel sorry but I can't get hung up on things I can't change.

You're trying to get involved in human trafficking? How much to get me Scar Jo?

 

[-X-]

I'm not angry. I'm just telling you that you can feel sorry but I can't get hung up on things I can't change.

Are you pre-law? And, are you going to change things here? Just asking, because I hope so.
I'm just focusing on global issues, because I'm bigger than you. lol.

 

[jrry32]

Are you pre-law? And, are you going to change things here? Just asking, because I hope so.
I'm just focusing on global issues, because I'm bigger than you. lol.

No. I'm in law school. I'm going to try and change things here.

 

[-X-]

No. I'm in law school. I'm going to try and change things here.

Good for you.

 

[RamzFanz]

And contrast all that with incidents like this:

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2014/06/dash_cam_footage_from_open_car.html

In Kalamazoo, MI, a belligerent WHITE man with a LOADED rifle stood on a public road. Was he instantly shot dead like the man just outside Ferguson who stole those two sodas in 23 seconds? Certainly he was MORE of a threat. But...nope.

The cops spent 40 minutes talking him down, eventually getting the gun WHICH THEY RETURNED TO HIM THE NEXT DAY!!!

Now can anyone honestly tell me that if this guy was black that he wouldn't have been dead within a few minutes with that loaded rifle?

And that's the REAL issue. Police treat these incidents differently.

Oh, and the Walmart police weren't indicted, either, even though it's clear that they provided the man zero instruction to disarm or any chance to comply with any instructions... it's apparently NOT a crime to just take someone's word for it that "nebulous black man with a something that looks like a gun is a significant threat to life and property" and simply kill him without any further information. I mean, the officers didn't even take the time to do a decent reconnoiter.

Watch the video. I think the officers did a fine job.

I just wish that behavior extended to ALL members of the community, including people of color.

Comparisons like this is where racism charges often fall on deaf ears. The man in St Louis had a knife and was coming at the cops after being warned many times to drop it. He was yelling at them to shoot. This case screams suicide by cops. If he had stayed where he was and not come at the cops the ending could very well have been the same. They didn't just shoot him like the park kid or the Walmart where I agree the cops should go to trial.

The white guy was in an open carry state and the cops were well aware he was breaking no laws just by carrying the rifle. He never pointed it at the cops or anyone else. Even the caller to 911 said he wasn't acting dangerous or anything, just carrying. They "talked him down" because he wasn't breaking any laws, just being resistant to being stopped. Well, he did jaywalk. I don't see anywhere that it says loaded and that may or may not be legal where he lives.

Some cops are racist. Some are and don't know it because of their perception or interactions. But saying a cop is a racist for shooting a man coming at them with a knife after repeatedly calling for him to drop it just creates pushback.

I noticed you accused the cops of shooting him for stealing sodas and forgot to mention he had a knife and came at them. Why would you do that? What is your purpose?

 

[Dodgersrf]

These are some seriously tough topics. Though every case is different, collectively, there is so much that has gone wrong on both sides of the law.

 

[RamzFanz]

Because Brown is dead and Johnson could be considered an accomplice to the robbery.

It cuts both ways. You can't argue that he lacks credibility and then claim that he's credible when he confirms Wilson's account.

Yes, yes I can. He is not credible in regards to his attempt to deceive us about Brown's innocence and Wilson's guilt. Why would BOTH he and Wilson say Brown handed off the cigars if Brown didn't? Do you think that's just a coincidence?

I believe Johnson in that single instance because it didn't affect the outcome and he unknowingly agreed with the cop.

When people complain that cops won't release information about a shooting, THIS is why. Johnson confirmed a fact he couldn't have known about if he hadn't of witnessed it. If we all knew that Wilson said he handed off the cigars, THEN Johnson could have changed his story and wouldn't be credible.

 

[Mackeyser]

In the 23 second video, I don't recall the man having a knife, nor was there time for the officers to discern if he had a knife or not.

I could only find the Huffpo story with the video link

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/20/kajieme-powell-shooting_n_5696546.html

However, if you watch the video, the officers accounts are just flat not true. He approaches them with his hands at his sides and his hands appear empty.

There is NO WAY that he approaches them in the manner in which they describe. It's just absolutely false and not what's shown on the very video the police released to the public.

My purpose in bringing this up is to bring up examples of the disparate nature of the unequal policing that absolutely exists in this country.

If we are to truly be a nation of laws, they must apply uniformly to everyone and in equal measure, in enforcement, application and then with respect to the degree of punishment.

 

[jrry32]

Yes, yes I can. He is not credible in regards to his attempt to deceive us about Brown's innocence and Wilson's guilt. Why would BOTH he and Wilson say Brown handed off the cigars if Brown didn't? Do you think that's just a coincidence?

I believe Johnson in that single instance because it didn't affect the outcome and he unknowingly agreed with the cop.

When people complain that cops won't release information about a shooting, THIS is why. Johnson confirmed a fact he couldn't have known about if he hadn't of witnessed it. If we all knew that Wilson said he handed off the cigars, THEN Johnson could have changed his story and wouldn't be credible.

No, I don't think it's a coincidence. I think Johnson agreed with the officer's story because he realized that was his best shot of not having significant legal problems.

I'm saying he didn't agree unknowingly.

 

[RamzFanz]

No, I don't think it's a coincidence. I think Johnson agreed with the officer's story because he realized that was his best shot of not having significant legal problems.

I'm saying he didn't agree unknowingly.

that fact was never released was it?

 

[jrry32]

that fact was never released was it?

It was known to the police even if it wasn't released.(I have no idea what was known back then to the media)

 

[RamzFanz]

In the 23 second video, I don't recall the man having a knife, nor was there time for the officers to discern if he had a knife or not.

I could only find the Huffpo story with the video link

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/20/kajieme-powell-shooting_n_5696546.html

However, if you watch the video, the officers accounts are just flat not true. He approaches them with his hands at his sides and his hands appear empty.

There is NO WAY that he approaches them in the manner in which they describe. It's just absolutely false and not what's shown on the very video the police released to the public.

My purpose in bringing this up is to bring up examples of the disparate nature of the unequal policing that absolutely exists in this country.

If we are to truly be a nation of laws, they must apply uniformly to everyone and in equal measure, in enforcement, application and then with respect to the degree of punishment.

Oh, well there's your problem. You can't believe anything from the Huffington post. That's like quoting Rush Limbaugh.

Yes, he had a knife. Yes the cops knew it. He had his hand in his jacket and wouldn't remove it which is why they drew their guns. Then he drew a knife from that pocket. The cops AND bystanders were yelling for him to drop the knife. He then came at the cops yelling "shoot me" and they didn't shoot. He looked at the bystanders and went off to the side which many believe he was avoiding getting a bystander shot. He then went at the police.

I don't care what color you are, that will get you shot. i just watched a video where they shot a white man with a hammer for coming at them.

You and I completely agree that there is bias and unequal justice. I just think people pick the wrong cases as examples. Wilson was defending himself. these cops were defending themselves. The Walmart and park shootings they were not.

I honestly don't care how many people the cops kill in actual self-defense. Dying isn't part of their job description.

 

[RamzFanz]

It was known to the police even if it wasn't released.(I have no idea what was known back then to the media)

It was known to the police but Johnson didn't know that is what the cop would testify, therefore it was unknown. And no, it wasn't released, that was a rhetorical question.

So, the real question here is do you still think that it sheds doubt on Wilson's testimony when it was even, unknowingly, verified by Browns accomplice?

 

[Mackeyser]

And Mac my old friend and sometimes adversary if you and I were arguing about global warming and I advanced an argument like that ,you would say what exactly? anecdotal evidence that reinforces your personal bias but doesn't prove it.

JMO race is being injected into this equation more because it can be than because it is, behemoth like Mike Brown starts whoopin on me in my cop car I'm not sure I shoot him ,think I would his ethnicity wouldn't matter to me, and I damn sure wouldn't let him get away,you can turn the other cheek but I don't think you are working on your grappling to do that.

The bias I'm referring to is the systemic bias that is categorically true and undeniable.

I've already written that I don't know if Officer Wilson is guilty because the process was so faulty, but that in light of the evidence, unless his testimony fell apart on cross, he wouldn't be convicted.

I think that Officer Wilson's testimony was suspect enough that I would have like to seen him dealt with by an adversarial DA who sought an indictment and THEN he would have had the benefit of defense counsel. I think he should have been on paid leave pending these charges. Then on cross and under oath, we'd have a better idea of what exactly happened. Those who want to believe Officer Wilson believe him because he said so. I don't. He made several statements (like initially he stated he was struck in excess of 9 times. Subsequently, he stated it was "maybe" 2 times) that were inconsistent and should have been confronted. If at trial, they jury could reconcile them, then fine. If not, Officer Wilson would have to answer for that. But that would be up to the trial Jury who'd have the benefit of all the evidence in the context of trial presentation subject to contestation as opposed to the Grand Jury which is not remotely a trial and the question of guilt or innocence isn't a part of their deliberations.

Point is, I don't know what happened.

The DA McCulloch sure didn't do his community any favors with his poor lawyering on this and that's a huge part of the problem. If the DA had played this totally straight and by the book, it would have been a LOT easier to parse the racial issues from the legal issues. Unfortunately, the DA turned this whole mess into a big, damned stew leaving those with an agenda to view this as a big, fat Rorschach test.

It's really unfortunate for so many...and for the process which was badly misused for political purposes. Just really unfortunate.

 

[jrry32]

It was known to the police but Johnson didn't know that is what the cop would testify, therefore it was unknown. And no, it wasn't released, that was a rhetorical question.

So, the real question here is do you still think that it sheds doubt on Wilson's testimony when it was even, unknowingly, verified by Browns accomplice?

Yes.

Johnson did know that was what the cop would testify to because I'm betting the police told him. That's pure speculation but the guy changed his story many times and was in hot water with the law. Something simple like, "Brown handed you the stolen Cigarillos after he started his assault on Officer Wilson, didn't he?" could easily cause him to confirm that.