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blue4

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I put it more at 35-40% that the Rams stay. I honestly think we have a better chance to convince another team to move here than getting Stan to say. I would think if Stan ignores the bylaws and gets away with it, than the city would be able to negotiate with any team nearing the end of their lease.
It really stinks that we stood by them for years of losing only to lose them when we finally are on the cusp of winning. If we lose them, and we fail to land another team, that would about end the NFL with me. That and the excessive penalties.
 

rhinobean

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Pretty balanced article.


I have never been to a game at the Ed but from everything I hear, this is a very true statement and what bugs me most about the situation.
As for supporting the team, it's not about the fans for Kroenke, it's about the Benjamens!
 

RobRams1

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I have been a Ram fan my whole life. I went to games in Orange County and had season tickets. I was mad when they left but I never stopped being a Ram fan. Thank God for Direct Tv because I could still watch every game. If they come back great! I will get season tickets and go to the game if they stay in St. Louis that is fine to. I try to fly back for one game a year and love to visit St. Louis it's a great city. Bottom line I will always be a Ram fan wherever they end up.
 

A55VA6

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I think if Stan has his sights on L.A, then the Rams will move to L.A. But everything is so up in the air, it's really almost a 50/50 split right now. Maybe 60/40 in favor of L.A.

I'm a fan whether they stay in STL or move to L.A, so it'll be interesting to see how things work out.
 

RamFan503

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As for supporting the team, it's not about the fans for Kroenke, it's about the Benjamens!
Aside from GB - is there an owner you couldn't really say that about? Some may do a better job of playing to the public but in the end, it's all about the all mighty dollar for all of them. I've said it before though, if Stan wants to move, he is going to move and there is nothing that will stop him - not the NFL, other owners, St Louis - nothing. So if he stays in St Louis and agrees to terms, that just means he wanted to stay all along and he got the best deal he could get to do so. That will speak louder for his appreciation of St Louis than any words ever could.
 

Mojo Ram

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I think if Stan has his sights on L.A, then the Rams will move to L.A. But everything is so up in the air, it's really almost a 50/50 split right now. Maybe 60/40 in favor of L.A.

I'm a fan whether they stay in STL or move to L.A, so it'll be interesting to see how things work out.
I feel really bad for the resident fans of both cities. For me i just hope the Rams stay in the same division as the Cardinals so i can go to a game every year. I know...cry me a river.
 

RamFan503

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I feel really bad for the resident fans of both cities. For me i just hope the Rams stay in the same division as the Cardinals so i can go to a game every year. I know...cry me a river.
I'm in the same boat with you as I usually go to the game up in Seattle so I just hope they stay in the same division with them. Otherwise, I really don't care where they call home. If I could go to a home game which I was hoping to do this year or next, it would probably be cheaper for me to buy a ticket from Portland to St Louis than to LA anyway so...
 

dbrooks25

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Rams Staying or Leaving? The Arguments for Both Sides
By Randy Karraker

http://www.101sports.com/2015/01/12/rams-staying-leaving-arguments-sides/

Last week provided quite a five days of news on the stadium front for the Rams. On Monday, we learned from the Los Angeles Times that Rams owner Stan Kroenke had partnered with Stockbridge Capital group to develop the land and build a stadium on the old Hollywood Park race track plot he purchased in Inglewood, California, about five miles from Los Angeles International Airport.

Then on Friday, Missouri Governor Jay Nixon’s task force of former Anheuser-Busch President David Peacock and local attorney Bob Blitz unveiled their plans for a new 64,000 seat stadium on the St. Louis riverfront. Both Rams fan bases, in L.A. and St. Louis, have reason to feel good about their chances to be driving to home games in 2016. Here are some of those reasons…

For Los Angeles:

-Kroenke’s actions over the course of the last year clearly showed a desire to move his franchise to L.A. Not talking to the customers who support his team in St. Louis, refusing to talk to anyone in a position to help him build a stadium in St. Louis, and initially purchasing the land at Hollywood Park were all clear indicators that he doesn’t want to run his business in St. Louis.

-The NFL clearly wants a team in the USA’s second largest market. Several owners have made it a point to tell people that the Rams were going to move. Commissioner Roger Goodell has frequently talked about getting the league back in L.A. The NFL has its television network based in L.A., and has made no secret of its desire to half a west coast wing of the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

-From a media standpoint, Fox Sports is based in Los Angeles, and ESPN has developed a major presence there. L.A. is the entertainment capital of the world, and provides media coverage for a franchise there that isn’t available in St. Louis.

-There are a lot of incredibly rich businesses and people in Los Angeles. When the NFL sent out a questionnaire to potential fans in the area, the league asked about their willingness to pay $50,000 for lower level club PSL’s, and $25,000 for upper level. Kroenke is planning an 80,000 seat stadium that will likely cost $1.5 billion. Combine that with a relocation fee of $500 million, and it’s a $2 billion move. An average PSL price of $25,000 for 80,000 seats would give Kroenke $2 billion, allowing him to pay off his stadium without affecting his personal fortune. As we all know, you don’t make $5.6 billion by spending wildly on what someone else will pay for.

-Visiting teams would realize a windfall if the Rams would charge a minimum of $100 per ticket, as was suggested in the NFL questionnaire. There’s a 60/40 split of non-premium ticket proceeds for each game. So the teams in the NFC West, from a financial perspective, would certainly prefer 40% of the take of 80,000 really expensive seats in L.A. to 40% of the 64,000 pretty expensive seats in St. Louis.

-That rich fan base is passionate about bringing the Rams back. The Rams welcomed those fans to a tailgate get together in San Diego when the Rams visited there in December. The passion for the Rams is greater in the Southland than their passion for the Chargers or the Raiders, teams that also could in theory relocate.

-It’s far from a guarantee that St. Louis and Missouri government leaders will approve an extension of the bonds that currently are applied to the Edward Jones Dome. Even if it is simply an extension of what people are already paying, there are people in our country, as we know, that don’t want the government to get or spend any additional dollars for any more time.

-The NFL has already bent their rules to accommodate Kroenke. They agreed to allow him to skirt their cross ownership rules by continuing to own the Denver Nuggets and Colorado Avalanche until December of 2014. When he decided he needed more than three and a half years to comply, they gave him a one year extension. If they’re going to allow Kroenke to skirt those rules, why not the relocation guidelines?

For St. Louis

-St. Louis has detailed plans for a new stadium. As Jay Nixon’s stadium task force, attorney Bob Blitz and former Anheuser-Busch President David Peacock unveiled details on Friday. They provided knowledge of where the facility will be, how it will fit, where parking will be, how it will be financed and what level of support taxpayers and fans will have to provide.

-The NFL is aware of the St. Louis plan. Multiple reports suggested that the NFL was blindsided by Kroenke’s plan, but Peacock met with NFL Vice President-Stadium Development Eric Grubman, and has been in constant contact with the league about his plans.

-The franchise is already based in St. Louis, and the NFL’s own relocation guidelines say “Because League policy favors stable team-community relations, clubs are obligated to work diligently and in good faith to obtain and to maintain suitable stadium facilities in their home territories, and to operate in a manner that maximizes fan support in their current home community.” These guidelines, ironically, are a result of the Raiders moving to Los Angeles in 1982 without league approval to do so.

-St. Louis and Missouri have displayed enough alacrity in terms of providing the Rams a proposal, especially considering that Kroenke won’t communicate with them. Red McCombs purchased the Vikings in 1998 and approached new governor Jesse Ventura about a new stadium, and Ventura told him he wouldn’t even consider it.

Then McCombs met with new Minnesota governor Tim Pawlenty in 2003, and Pawlenty said he would provide no help. McCombs sold the team to the family of Zygi Wilf in 2005, and they worked with the state until reaching a stadium deal in 2012. The Vikings will start play in their new stadium in 2016, eighteen years after their first request. The 49ers wanted to build on the site of Candlestick Park starting in 2006 and were rebuffed. They worked out their deal with Santa Clara in 2010, and started play at their privately financed Levis Stadium in 2014, eight years after their first try. Jim Irsay of the Colts declared that he needed a new stadium in 2002, and reached agreement for the construction of Lucas Oil Stadium in August of 2005. The Colts moved into their new facility six years after their first request, in 2008. The Chargers first asked for a new stadium in San Diego in 2000, and are still trying, with their seventh mayor since their initial request. In Atlanta, Falcons owner Arthur Blank requested a new stadium in April of 2010, and reached agreement to fund most of the new facility more than three years later, in May of 2013. With Blank footing 70%-80% of the bill, that stadium will open in 2017, seven years after the initial request.
bob blitz

Bob Blitz, another member of Nixon’s task force, has indicated corporate support is strong for an NFL team in St. Louis.

So while the narrative from the Rams may be that the region didn’t act quickly enough for their liking, the fact is that the Rams beat the CVC in their arbitration on February 2 of 2013, not even two years ago. Until then, nobody knew if there would be a need for a new facility. Relative to the rest of the league, if the team’s owner doesn’t participate, how can a proposal within two years that would have the team in a new stadium eight seasons later be too little, too late?

-St. Louis, despite the departure of at least ten Fortune 500 companies since the franchise arrived in St. Louis, has enough corporate support to make an NFL team more than competitive. On Friday, Peacock said “I like to deal in fact and data. The facts are half of the NFL teams play in cities with less Fortune 1000 companies than St. Louis has. We have seven of the top 200 private companies in the country. From just an economic standpoint, about 13 teams play in cities with a smaller GDP, if you will, or economy, than St. Louis. So it’s hard for me to say we don’t have the business support or the capability of business support.” The Rams seem to think that those companies should spend money with them simply because they’re in the NFL. If the Rams compete on the field at a higher level, they’ll be able to utilize those companies for their financial gain.

-The financial consequences of trying to move a franchise without approval could be enormous. In August of 2010, Kroenke joined a club of 31 other owners and agreed to abide by their rules. Of course, that includes relocation guidelines. The league will determine any relocation fee. And in 1996 when Ken Behring moved the Seahawks to Anaheim for a week, the NFL threatened to fine him $500,000 a day for every day he was there. $500,000 a day would wipe out Kroenke’s fortune in less than three years.

-With a new TV contract that started this year and runs through 2021, the league won’t see much immediate financial impact from a move of any team to Los Angeles. Certainly that market will contribute more to NFL properties with merchandise sales, but having those eyes on televisions for a team in L.A. won’t benefit the league until the next TV deal. Financially, the only major beneficiary of a move in 2016 would be Kroenke, and as those pesky guidelines say, “no club has an “entitlement” to relocate simply because it perceives an opportunity for enhanced club revenues in another location. Indeed, League traditions disfavor relocations if a club has been well-supported and financially successful and is expected to remain so.” The Rams traditionally have been well supported in St. Louis, relative to their on-field success, and indeed had their highest attendance since 2008 this past season.

Ultimately, the owners own the L.A. market and will make this decision, and it may not please St. Louis fans when all is said and done. But after Friday’s announcement, it would seem as if St. Louis is able to pull this stadium proposal off, the NFL would have to throw its rules out the window to allow a Rams transfer back to Los Angeles.

From looking at the San Francisco and Minnesota deals, it looks like the timeline Stl is giving to have a new stadium up is not long at all as some have suggested. Upon reaching deals with their cities, both the Vikings and 49ers will have opened play in their stadiums 4 years later. Not too long at all.
 

bluecoconuts

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I'm in the same boat with you as I usually go to the game up in Seattle so I just hope they stay in the same division with them. Otherwise, I really don't care where they call home. If I could go to a home game which I was hoping to do this year or next, it would probably be cheaper for me to buy a ticket from Portland to St Louis than to LA anyway so...

If you feel like driving for 5 days you can always go down the PCH.
 

RamFan503

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If you feel like driving for 5 days you can always go down the PCH.
Ha man - my sis lives in Malibu. It's not that far. It takes me 17 hours if I drive it all in one shot. Unfortunately that means I'm shot (or at least grumpy) the day after both drives so I'd rather fly and just waste two days. Kinda makes it not really matter which city I go to. At least with St Louis it's be a new adventure as I've never been there before. I actually like the idea of maybe hitting a Rams game in every NFL city at some point. Hopefully St Louis will still be one of them because my wife loves that town and it'd be an easy sell.
 

bluecoconuts

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Ha man - my sis lives in Malibu. It's not that far. It takes me 17 hours if I drive it all in one shot. Unfortunately that means I'm shot (or at least grumpy) the day after both drives so I'd rather fly and just waste two days. Kinda makes it not really matter which city I go to. At least with St Louis it's be a new adventure as I've never been there before. I actually like the idea of maybe hitting a Rams game in every NFL city at some point. Hopefully St Louis will still be one of them because my wife loves that town and it'd be an easy sell.

I like St Louis, my girlfriend thinks I'm crazy because it's not nearly as beautiful. Its different though, so I enjoy it. Plus her mom is the best cook I know, so the food is always amazing.
 

RamBill

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Cowboys owner has no problem with Rams move to LA
• By Jim Thomas

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_03b191af-dd5b-5169-987a-3448aafcc963.html

If the potential relocation of the Rams to Los Angeles comes down to a vote, St. Louis shouldn’t count on Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones to block a move.

In an interview last week with The New York Times, Jones said Rams owner Stan Kroenke can move the Rams even if the NFL tries to block the move.

“As it would turn out now, apart from the league saying no, you can move there,” Jones initially was quoted as saying in the Times article published Monday. “Keep in mind that teams have moved without the permission of the league. They just have.”

But when asked if Kroenke could simply move on his own, Jones said: “He can if the league says he can’t.”

Rams sources have told the Post-Dispatch on more than one occasion this month that Kroenke will not go rogue — he would not move the franchise to Los Angeles without league approval.

Former longtime Oakland Raiders executive Amy Trask also revealed a little-known fact to the Post-Dispatch last week, namely that there are provisions in place to deter teams from relocating without league approval.

“These safeguards are really draconian,” she said. “They involve financial penalties and other penalties that really should deter teams from doing things like that without (league approval).”

Among them are forfeitures of part of a team’s annual share of leaguewide television revenue. Another is forfeiture of a team’s share of leaguewide income from NFL Properties — the league’s merchandising arm.

With the Rams, the San Diego Chargers, and the Oakland Raiders able to escape their leases after this season, the NFL is trying to “control” the Los Angeles market in terms of preventing a frenzied race into the nation’s second-largest market.

When asked by the Times if the league preferred to coordinate any relocation, Jones replied: “Again, there are just certain things that clubs can do.”

Last week’s announcement that Kroenke had reached an agreement to build an 80,000-seat stadium in Inglewood, Calif., surprised many, but apparently not Jones.

“The idea of Stan going ahead and making his announcement was driven by all of the right things,” said Jones, who cited the Inglewood agreement and the fact that Kroenke owns a Rams team that has “a great legacy.”

Jones added to the Times: “All of that is to me a very positive thing for Los Angeles and for the NFL.”

When the Cowboys played the Rams at the Edward Jones Dome on Sept. 21, Jones and Kroenke were seen speaking at length before the game. There has since been speculation in league circles that Jones has advised Kroenke to do what he wants and see how the league reacts.

Jones is one of the NFL’s most influential owners, but he also has a maverick image.

In terms of a business model, a core principle in the NFL is revenue sharing. But Jones has created more income for his team by reaching his own licensing deals with sponsors. The NFL subsequently sued, and an agreement was reached between the league and Jones.

For example, Dallas markets its own apparel independently, and as such forgoes its annual shares of income from NFL Properties.

The league announced last month that no team could file for relocation for the 2015 season.

Before that announcement, the Rams were prepared to do so. But team officials also told the Post-Dispatch that the Rams would not file without a go-ahead from the league.

The Rams will opt for a year-to-year lease at the Dome on Jan. 28, a byproduct of stadium lease language that required the venue to be among the “first-tier” (or top eight) stadiums in the league.

As of now, the earliest the NFL could allow a relocation vote is expected to be the March owners meetings in 2016. It takes 24 votes, or a three-fourths majority of the 32 NFL franchise owners, to approve relocation.
 

beej

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We're like an udfa in the final preseason game. Probably gonna get cut but other teams might be looking.
 

mr.stlouis

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Not easy being a Rams fan these days. Not even the team, I love the team, just all the negativity outside the team. That will not stop me from going to every game I can, though.
 

RamFan503

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Does anyone know if someone is allowed to own an NFL team and a stadium that another NFL team plays in? If ever there was a conflict of interest, it sure seems like that would be bigger than owning a basketball team in another city.
 

beej

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demoff saying the rams are staying in stl. Says to forget about stans land purchases. Of course this was 11 months ago.
 

beej

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Jim Thomas said in his article today that the rams planned to file relocation papers for 2015 until the league stopped it.
 
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