Joyner being moved to Free Safety?

[StealYoGurley]

Initially I thought Barron made the most sense to play the TJ Ward role in this defense, but it looks like he is staying at LB and Joyner will fill the TJ Ward role.

Ward was probably the most versatile piece in Wade's defense the last 2 years. Ward was one of the main reasons Wade was able to play so much base 3-4 because Ward could come down in the box, cover in the slot, blitz, and even play LB. Ward lined up everywhere; single high, as a split safety, nickle LB, in the box, and slot corner. Ward is only 2 inches taller and 6 pounds heavier, so the size difference is negligible. Joyner plays with the same aggressiveness and has similar position versatility playing LB and Nickel last year to go along with extensive experience at safety at Florida State. Mo is constantly improving and is a bigger faster Darian Stewart. I like the mix we have at safety.

 

[Rams43]

Joyner had a helluva career playing at FS while at Florida State.

Wade has proven that he knows D very, very well at the NFL level beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Ummmm...

So, if Wade wants Joyner at FS, it's certainly fine by me. Lol.

 

[So Ram]

I thought that Joyner lined up in the Strong Side LB'er post & the Nickle? Are you guys saying that in 2016 Gregg was always playing in the Nickle defense & Joyner did not play the SSLB'er responsibility too?

My point is Joyner, even being way to small for FS lined up close to the LOS on the left side most of the time in the area where SSLB'ers sit. Very rarely did we see SSLB'er Josh Forrest on the field. But when we did see Josh he was lined up in the same area as Joyner. I thought that Joyner was better up close playing the SSLB'er post than when he was covering(trailing) the slot.

So I am trying to follow all this & see where his size would enter into the equation @ free deep safety but it did not ??? when he played & played good in the SSLB spot? I thought that I have seen PFF rating LJ above most all our DB's?

I know this that when I read that Wade said it was a priority to have LJ on the field as much as possible.....well . Wade I You! I believe LJ has a massive size heart to play anywhere.

I love his passion & as he said would play for free . I think Wade is right , but he wants to play to his strengths .
Greg Williams loved this guy !! Talked him up all the time in press conferences .
I think Greg had him playing out of position , but not sure of options & depth The Rams have had at the position ??

 

[So Ram]

Did you know, Joyner had 5 passes defensed all season? Think he allowed over a 60% completion rate.


https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/passes-defended/2016/
https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/players/553290/lamarcus-joyner/#Tackles & Assists
Any way you slice it...he's near the bottom. So, above average is clearly the wrong description of his play.
Insert laughing gif here>


No, no...injury prone, but bullet Bob Sanders could play....
And he definitely ran a 4.4 too...Like a lot of those "small" FS that excelled.

I figured to get a little flack for my LaMarcus Joyner take. It's ok...I got thick skin...from losing for 14 years straight. There is no way that this guy on the field makes us a better team. He's NEVER had a pass interception. He only got his hands on 5 passes all year in 2016, the same amount a AD....So, our DT plays BETTER pass defense than our nickle corner?
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/defense-pass-defenses

We all have thick(should at least) , but our skin shouldn't matter . It's about find a fit , & I'll agree that Joyner has gotten beat a lot . 60 % ?? Sometimes on big plays it seems like Oc's always find him .

I questioned his drafting especially because The Rams traded up, same with Tavon . There size is such a question mark at The NFL level. I thought they needed to stay true to there board and gave patients .

Watching Joyner though he is a ball hawk , but size comes into play. I like the way he tackles & has a chance to get INT's at FS by just making the right reads. -- His 40 time was like a 4.6 ?? Which I'm going off the top of my head , but watching tape from FSU he went from missing a tackle to running back to cause a fumble. He does not give up on a play. Does he get resigned next year ?? I don't know , but he is a Heck of a Lot more experienced than Randolph !!
--- I know you still like Ray Ray at LBer.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I hear you and think your dead on the position I just honestly don't care for Joyner at safety. Dude is to damn little IMO. We are going to get eaten alive by Sean routes he's supposed to guard vs a 6-5 TE. That's 9 inches of height difference not including difference in wing span. I pray we draft a late round guy that surprises.

As long as he can lay the wood, receivers and TEs will be tentative going towards him. With a good pass rush, hopefully there won't be a lot of deep passes by opponents. As far as deep passes wouldn't his role be more of an over the top assist?

Cody Davies is The Rams starting FS .

Joyner is still as a CB

Barron is a LB now , & will be interesting to see how much weight he puts on ?

I think that will depend on who they draft. In the end the idea will be to get the best players on the field. If they draft a good slot, or a good outside cover man, coupled with Tru and Kayvon, it would free up Joyner to move to safety. He is more athletic than Davis, so he would get the spot at FS.

 

[Merlin]

Plus, you're ignoring that different schemes ask for different skill-sets. GW valued Joyner's versatility as a slot corner greatly. It allowed him to use smaller, faster personnel because Joyner could play the run like an extra safety in the box. You assume that GW didn't think that Joyner could succeed at safety, but it's just as possible that GW felt that Joyner was more valuable to him as a slot CB.

It seems like Phillips is valuing Joyner's versatility as a slot corner greatly as well, by moving him to FS outside of his nickel duties. This is a little different than the full-time move to FS that many wanted to see, btw, and probably makes a little more sense to me personally as I have always loved Joyner as a nickel DB.

Another interesting thing to me at least is that in Phillips' scheme with CBs playing a matchup zone where it looks like man when they're in their areas of responsibility, it favors Joyner greatly. In other words I think he will be a better CB in this scheme and his instincts are going to shine through. And when they jump out of nickel the guy coming off the field is the lesser player, which is a smart call by Wade.

Very happy to hear this, provided it's what is being reported. And for the record if it's a full time move to FS it's not something I love as much as you do, but I can live with it.

 

[Corbin]

Sanders was MUCH MUCH better than "just ok".

Did you know, Joyner had 5 passes defensed all season? Think he allowed over a 60% completion rate.


https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/passes-defended/2016/
https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/players/553290/lamarcus-joyner/#Tackles & Assists
Any way you slice it...he's near the bottom. So, above average is clearly the wrong description of his play.
Insert laughing gif here>


No, no...injury prone, but bullet Bob Sanders could play....
And he definitely ran a 4.4 too...Like a lot of those "small" FS that excelled.

I figured to get a little flack for my LaMarcus Joyner take. It's ok...I got thick skin...from losing for 14 years straight. There is no way that this guy on the field makes us a better team. He's NEVER had a pass interception. He only got his hands on 5 passes all year in 2016, the same amount a AD....So, our DT plays BETTER pass defense than our nickle corner?
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/defense-pass-defenses

Alright maybe both of you are right, maybe I should say injury prone instead of ok.
and Champ I think Joyner is a similar player to Robinison where as they both get alot of penalties because they lack certain skills and use illegal tactics to make up for it. Joyner is just to small which causes him to grab alot. Hopefully the FS position will eliminate most of those.

As long as he can lay the wood, receivers and TEs will be tentative going towards him. With a good pass rush, hopefully there won't be a lot of deep passes by opponents. As far as deep passes wouldn't his role be more of an over the top assist?
.

I have no doubt he can lay the wood. Plenty of evidence there. I'm more concerned on plays like this over the top where is is already beat a step or two, and the WR is taller, bigger, and able to take advantage of the little Joyner.

If he was 2-3 inches taller with an increased wingspan because of it I wouldn't be as worried.

 

[So Ram]

It seems like Phillips is valuing Joyner's versatility as a slot corner greatly as well, by moving him to FS outside of his nickel duties. This is a little different than the full-time move to FS that many wanted to see, btw, and probably makes a little more sense to me personally as I have always loved Joyner as a nickel DB.

Another interesting thing to me at least is that in Phillips' scheme with CBs playing a matchup zone where it looks like man when they're in their areas of responsibility, it favors Joyner greatly. In other words I think he will be a better CB in this scheme and his instincts are going to shine through. And when they jump out of nickel the guy coming off the field is the lesser player, which is a smart call by Wade.

Very happy to hear this, provided it's what is being reported. And for the record if it's a full time move to FS it's not something I love as much as you do, but I can live with it.

How does EJ Gaines fit in , as nickel or dime ??

 

[dolphinlover123]

Alright maybe both of you are right, maybe I should say injury prone instead of ok.
and Champ I think Joyner is a similar player to Robinison where as they both get alot of penalties because they lack certain skills and use illegal tactics to make up for it. Joyner is just to small which causes him to grab alot. Hopefully the FS position will eliminate most of those.


I have no doubt he can lay the wood. Plenty of evidence there. I'm more concerned on plays like this over the top where is is already beat a step or two, and the WR is taller, bigger, and able to take advantage of the little Joyner.

If he was 2-3 inches taller with an increased wingspan because of it I wouldn't be as worried.

man what a luxury that guy Dak has with his oline.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

How does EJ Gaines fit in , as nickel or dime ??

Ultimately, I don't think he does. But Phillips may have to change up his scheme to fit the players until he gets the roster the way wants it. If they need a CB starter and a slot, plus depth, your looking at a lot of turnaround until things are set.

 

[So Ram]

Ultimately, I don't think he does. But Phillips may have to change up his scheme to fit the players until he gets the roster the way wants it. If they need a CB starter and a slot, plus depth, your looking at a lot of turnaround until things are set.

I've been fairly high on EJ ,maybe it's the herb ? Still think he has a lot of upside. He does Tackle well , in fact I think better than Tru or Joyner one on one. Cover skills can be a little shady , but I still believe he was never really 100% . Once he & Tru were injured it was all over for The Rams season. The CB is a key position no matter how good the front 7 are. I think if you get all 11 working together you'll see both the sack & INT's both to the level they should be with the defensive unit The Rams have.

Depth at the CB & safety position are going to be key. Maybe Hill & Jordan step up after a year of experience. They were thrown into the fire for sure.

 

[jrry32]

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/passes-defended/2016/
https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/players/553290/lamarcus-joyner/#Tackles & Assists
Any way you slice it...he's near the bottom. So, above average is clearly the wrong description of his play.
Insert laughing gif here>

I'll counter your stats with PFF's stats:

The first CB to play primarily in the slot to make the list, Lamarcus Joyner has been excellent for the Rams when on the field this season. After his Hard Knocks drama, Joyner’s season has seen him allow just one touchdown catch, and he has been beaten for only 8.5 yards per reception. Joyner doesn’t have an interception on his stat sheet, but he has broken up four passes and hasn’t been beaten for a catch longer than 29 yards all year.

Gregg Williams's scheme was a bend but don't break defense. It prioritized not giving up TDs and big plays over giving up short passes. Joyner played his role exactly how it was designed.

You blame Joyner for playing his role in the defense as it was designed.

Above average is the correct description of his play. Could argue it was more than above average.

We are talking about a guy that is 5'8 not 5'10. Those two inches along with wingspan means a lot in either tipping, disrupting, or intercepting a ball.

The only player on that list that is 5'8 is Sanders and he was just ok.

Those two inches mean nothing against a 6'5" TE. Tyrann Mathieu is just under 5'9". He's less than an inch taller than Joyner. He's one of the NFL's best safeties.

It's absolutely silly to say that being 5'9" or 5'10" is fine at FS, but 5'8" is too small.

I have no doubt he can lay the wood. Plenty of evidence there. I'm more concerned on plays like this over the top where is is already beat a step or two, and the WR is taller, bigger, and able to take advantage of the little Joyner.

If he was 2-3 inches taller with an increased wingspan because of it I wouldn't be as worried.

That's not a play over the top. That's Joyner playing CB with his back to the QB. It's a completely different skill-set. At FS, Joyner will have his eyes to the QB and be running horizontally.

Here's Joyner playing over the top:
http://gph.is/2ofhWe1

That 5'8" height didn't seem to matter against 6'3" Michael Floyd when he was laying the wood.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I've been fairly high on EJ ,maybe it's the herb ? Still think he has a lot of upside. He does Tackle well , in fact I think better than Tru or Joyner one on one. Cover skills can be a little shady , but I still believe he was never really 100% . Once he & Tru were injured it was all over for The Rams season. The CB is a key position no matter how good the front 7 are. I think if you get all 11 working together you'll see both the sack & INT's both to the level they should be with the defensive unit The Rams have.

Depth at the CB & safety position are going to be key. Maybe Hill & Jordan step up after a year of experience. They were thrown into the fire for sure.

I guess what I see is the Rams corners aren't man press types, even the depth guys. Snead has been finding corners to fit the cover2 that Williams used. So it would stand to reason that eventually all of the corners on the roster could be replaced, other than Webster and Tru. But he is already being shopped so I don't think that is likely. Joyner could stick too, if he succeeds at FS, which I think he will.

It would be great if the Rams could trade/swap some of the depth players instead of eventually releasing them. If there is a team switching to more zone coverage, then it could be a match.

 

[Memento]

It's about damn time they moved Joyner to free safety.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Watching Joyner though he is a ball hawk

The ball hawk label needs to be used with another type of corner.....

I know you still like Ray Ray at LBer.

I do....strange Ray Ray got a new contract, huh?

It'll be interesting if Joyner is actually moving to a new role, or is this report false. Like 80% of the off season news.

 

[Memphis Ram]

5'8" FS with poor ball skills. Bleh.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

5'8" FS with poor ball skills. Bleh.

Year one with a different staff and systems. They can't fix it all in the first off-season, and I bet they want to see some of these guys that are maybe not ideal fits, play before they ship them out. Otherwise they could create many more holes than they can reasonably fill.

Who knows, maybe a great safety falls to them in the draft and they can't say no to picking him. So then they trade Joyner at some point.

This move makes me think Phillips wants Kayvon Webster as the nickel back.

 

[shovelpass]

It seems like Phillips is valuing Joyner's versatility as a slot corner greatly as well, by moving him to FS outside of his nickel duties. This is a little different than the full-time move to FS that many wanted to see, btw, and probably makes a little more sense to me personally as I have always loved Joyner as a nickel DB.

Another interesting thing to me at least is that in Phillips' scheme with CBs playing a matchup zone where it looks like man when they're in their areas of responsibility, it favors Joyner greatly. In other words I think he will be a better CB in this scheme and his instincts are going to shine through. And when they jump out of nickel the guy coming off the field is the lesser player, which is a smart call by Wade.

Very happy to hear this, provided it's what is being reported. And for the record if it's a full time move to FS it's not something I love as much as you do, but I can live with it.

I wonder who will come in at FS when Joyner does drop down? Who ever it is will practically be a starter there, I don't know how often they'll be in a base set.

 

[shovelpass]

If he was 2-3 inches taller with an increased wingspan because of it I wouldn't be as worried.

Despite being the shorter guy Joyner has longer arms and bigger hands than both Thomas and Mathieu.

 

[BonifayRam]

.............This move makes me think Phillips wants Kayvon Webster as the nickel back.

Or more likely EJ Gaines or Blake Countess with Kayvon Webster starting on the outside with Trumaine Johnson.