HC options

[LesBaker]

It's not 4 years of the same thing. This year is different than 2012-14. 2012 depleted roster. 2013, 2014 massive injuries (and no, that's not the E word, it's what actually happened).

We've had all kinds of adversity during his tenure here. What coach could maintain a locker room like that? Do you see what's happening in Dallas or Detroit? They've assembled a whole roster of players, and some of them aren't holding their end of the bargain. IDK about you, but I place equal accountability on players and coaches in the NFL vs. college. They (players) are pros, they have to do their job too.

BTW the Titans moved on after 16 some odd years, not clamoring for him after a loss or 2.



1. The penalites are not all on Jeff Fisher. It's many times often full of crap flags that shouldn't even be called. I don't care if you bring his rep, or his style, I see the games and see garbage officiating. Hence my running garbage officiating thread.

2. You can coach them, but honestly what can a coach do if they don't hold their end? Scream at them, bench them? What would that do? Also how can he control when a ref throws a flag based off a judgement call?

3. I highly doubt that people will suddenly be forgiving if a new coach comes in and the team loses a game.



I see you posted those right after losses. Shocking. And again this year you do the same. Why didn't you post anything similar when they won?



The NFL is a different kind of business. One move can cause huge chain reactions.

IDK about you, but I don't want the Rams to become the Cleveland Browns of the NFC. Let that distinction remain elsewhere. Changing coaches often does NOT work. Since 2005 when Mike Martz got fired 2 head coaches got fired, an interim coach got fired, God knows how many coordinators and assistant coaches and what has changed? At some point you have to stay the freaking course.

This post is the schnizzle!!!

Thee is an article I read on the Herd and the writer was pounding on Fisher saying he's had too much time.

Then the knucklehead uncorks this gem:

Four teams — Chicago, Buffalo, Cleveland and Tennessee — have dismissed two coaches during Fisher’s futile run here.

Poor Ken Whisenhunt got fired twice, first by the Cardinals then by the Titans.

He doesn't see it, but it's obvious isn't it.........how are those clubs doing other than AZ which had a loaded roster and just needed a QB after Warner retired.

 

[Rams43]

Selecting a successful HC is a tricky thing.

Seems to me the best candidate would be a football knowledgable CEO type.

A man that will hire the best coordinators consistent with his philosophy and then give them the reins to do their jobs, including having a big say in selecting their respective asst coaches.

A man that's smart enough not to try to be either the OC or DC of his own team. Kinda like the old saying that a lawyer that hires himself has a fool for a client.

A man that sets the overall philosophy and let's his staff implement it.

Such a HC is almost always best served by having a quality GM having final say on draft picks and other personnel decisions. A HC doesn't need such unnecessary distractions on his plate. He needs to completely focus on development of his player roster. The HC should tell the GM what types of players he wants at the various positions, but the GM should take the process from there.

I know that HC's feel that they can best identify talent, but experience tells us otherwise. Bellichek is the extreme exception, not the rule. Besides, Bellichek is incredibly flexible at fixing problems when he sees a personnel problem. Far, far better than most HC's. Fisher is a perfect example. He's been excellent in his D selections, but incompetent when it comes to the O.

In summary, I think too often that owners go with the hot coordinator and ignore the CEO component. They get swept away during the interview process. They wind up with a team that's imbalanced and weak on the side of the ball in which their new HC is least knowledgable.

Like I said, selecting a HC is tricky. Lol.

 

[LesBaker]

They let Chud go, that was a HUGE error. IMO anyway.

8 coaches in 16 years.........no continuity has hurt them. When you are on average installing new systems that often it hurts.

 

[Ram Pat]

The two titles the Rams have won they had great Qb play. Had a great owner in 70's (Carroll) that built a great team on both sides of ball.... sadly a Qb away. Luck was within our grasp....we messed that up too! I will have hope till my last breath.

 

[Memento]

The two titles the Rams have won they had great Qb play. Had a great owner in 70's (Carroll) that built a great team on both sides of ball.... sadly a Qb away. Luck was within our grasp....we messed that up too! I will have hope till my last breath.

Luck was never in our grasp. And even if he was, would you trade basically Michael Brockers, Janoris Jenkins, Tavon Austin, Alec Ogletree, Stedman Bailey, Greg Robinson, Aaron Donald, and whatever picks we would've needed to move up to the number one slot for Luck alone? I'm including Austin and Donald because we wouldn't have had the freedom to make those picks if not for the flexibility that the extra draft picks provided us. That's a lot to give up for a quarterback, even if he is one of the best young quarterbacks in the game.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Yet there are SEC coaches that do it and have done it.

It's just Kelly's offense. It's how it's run.

With top recruiting classes and thus better talent than their peers.
More of an even playing field in the NFL.

 

[Ladoc]

Selecting a successful HC is a tricky thing.

Seems to me the best candidate would be a football knowledgable CEO type.

A man that will hire the best coordinators consistent with his philosophy and then give them the reins to do their jobs, including having a big say in selecting their respective asst coaches.

A man that's smart enough not to try to be either the OC or DC of his own team. Kinda like the old saying that a lawyer that hires himself has a fool for a client.

A man that sets the overall philosophy and let's his staff implement it.

Such a HC is almost always best served by having a quality GM having final say on draft picks and other personnel decisions. A HC doesn't need such unnecessary distractions on his plate. He needs to completely focus on development of his player roster. The HC should tell the GM what types of players he wants at the various positions, but the GM should take the process from there.

I know that HC's feel that they can best identify talent, but experience tells us otherwise. Bellichek is the extreme exception, not the rule. Besides, Bellichek is incredibly flexible at fixing problems when he sees a personnel problem. Far, far better than most HC's. Fisher is a perfect example. He's been excellent in his D selections, but incompetent when it comes to the O.

In summary, I think too often that owners go with the hot coordinator and ignore the CEO component. They get swept away during the interview process. They wind up with a team that's imbalanced and weak on the side of the ball in which their new HC is least knowledgable.

Like I said, selecting a HC is tricky. Lol.

I think being a head coach requires a different skill set than as a coordinator. We have all seen amazing offensive or defensive coordinators that are ineffective as a HC and their absence creates a talent void in the coordinating position they left. I think Fishers strengths as a HC are in his organizational abilities, PR abilities, and as the politically correct and savvy face of a team. He is very experienced and the fact that he lends stability is of value. I believe this group has been more than acceptable assessing and developing talent compared to previous regimes and the other NFL teams., He has gotten the defense and special teams right. If he had gotten the offense right and straightened out the penalties, no one would be unhappy with him as those corrections would translate to wins. I personally am hopeful they will keep Fisher as long as he hires a top notch offensive coordinator like Martz Etc. I don't think hiring an offensive minded head coach will be the answer because then we may lose the important emphasis on defense (which wins championships). Just because our defensive coordinator is great, doesn't mean he would be a good head coach. His value is much better as a DC (just like Martz was a better OC than the skill set required to be a HC). Personally I believe fisher made the wrong call with Shotty and did not want to have to change the entire system and learning curve for the players. Perhaps we have some really talented athletic players who are limited cerebrally and fisher thought it was worse to change the entire system with a new OC than to keep it the same (Cignetti) based on the years left on his contract. Getting a brand new OC will take a learning curve variable in length to the intelligence and familiarity of the players. Quick, Austin Etc are just now getting comfortable.
I also believe no one would be performing well with the offensive line injuries we have had. Fisher HAS done the right thing for the organization with our line. He DID bring in Long, Wells, and the pro bowl turns style guard and had no control over their injuries. They would still be starting now if we did not lose them in rapid succession. Haven't we learned by overpaying probowl players that underperform or get hurt. He drafted a line for the future and it will pay dividends in the future! We have a very talented YOUNG team! We don't know what will become of Greg Robinson but that is not a misfire of Fisher. 30 other teams would have taken him too! He will get better. Injuries are not his fault and he DID prepare for them.

 

[RamFan503]

Yes! We would for sure benefit greatly, immediately! I'm not kidding.

You're not kidding? You know for sure? Well ok then. I'm sure teams that tanked after changing coaches would have liked to be that sure.

 

[dieterbrock]

Yup.
Well said.
New England wasn't happy with Pete Carroll despite he made the playoffs 2 out of 3 years. They saw a need for an upgrade and got Belechick.
Green Bay wasn't happy with Mike Sherman with his 4 playoff appearance in 6 years and upgraded to mike McCarthy.
The New York Giants didn't believe in continuity when it came to Jim Fassel despite his SB appearance and got Tom Coughlin.
I'm all for continuity when it means continuing to win. There's just no example of a winning team that stayed commited when a team continued to lose.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Marvin Lewis had one winning season during his first 6 years with the Bengals.

 

[OldSchool]

Marvin Lewis had one winning season during his first 6 years with the Bengals.

And has had fans calling for his job his entire career and is 0-6 in the playoffs.

 

[FrankenRam]

Okay it's time for me to bring another name and right now I feel like Adlai Stevenson during the Cuban Missile Crisis somebody has to bring this guy's name up and I guess I will be the one to do it although it most likely with be meant with great disdain.

Josh McDaniels, that's right Mighty Mouse himself and anyone from the Belichick tree has been a disaster as a Head Coach thus far(Bill O'Brien the exception), but the jury is still out. McDaniels had far too much power and his first gig so to ensure that did not happen again I would make sure the GM had the power from the draft standpoint so McDaniels might be a good match with Snead and before everyone goes bonkers there some pluses to the man that seems to suffer from a Napoleon Complex.

X's and O's not X's and Ho's...McDaniels can coach an offense and although he could not put it together in St. Louis and has had no success away from Tom Brady he's admitted his gaffes in Denver, so IMO, he understands he has to put together an excellent coaching staff and be less dictatorial.

At Denver the defense was a disgrace and that's why I feel McDaniels would be very open to keeping Gregg Williams. Under Belichick he understands to use everything available to win football games so the fact that Williams is one hell of a DC should keep him in place with a McDaniels hire and maybe others like DL Coach Mike Wauffle and Special Teams Coach John Fassel.

Overall he was 11-17 in Denver Belichick was 36-44 in Cleveland granted the relocation to Baltimore did derail Belichick's last year in Cleveland, but other coaches have gotten other opportunities with worst records.

Again just throwing it out there because I'm sure getting tired of watching the Patriots win all the time and their coaching staff staying in tact although like most I agree it's all Belichick with a little help from his friends and the officials as always.

Any coach whose only real success has been as second fiddle to someone else for one team...before AND after chasing other opportunities, makes me more than a little nervous. It's the coaching equivalent of drafting a 'project' with the #2 overall pick in the draft.

You could be absolutely be right about him having learned from his past, but I'd be perfectly content to let him prove that with another team. His stint as Rams' OC is the most telling part of his journey for me. I remember shortly after his hire an interview where he basically said (and I am paraphrasing) it doesn't matter what style O a team wants to run....it has to be tailored to the available talent. And then he went out and ignored his own words.

 

[den-the-coach]

Any coach whose only real success has been as second fiddle to someone else for one team...before AND after chasing other opportunities, makes me more than a little nervous. It's the coaching equivalent of drafting a 'project' with the #2 overall pick in the draft.

You could be absolutely be right about him having learned from his past, but I'd be perfectly content to let him prove that with another team. His stint as Rams' OC is the most telling part of his journey for me. I remember shortly after his hire an interview where he basically said (and I am paraphrasing) it doesn't matter what style O a team wants to run....it has to be tailored to the available talent. And then he went out and ignored his own words.

I concur and just wanted to bring up the name for the purpose of debate and I do think he learned from his mistakes, however, I would be content for him to do it somewhere else too and it very well could be in Indianapolis with Andrew Luck.

 

[FrankenRam]

I concur and just wanted to bring up the name for the purpose of debate and I do think he learned from his mistakes, however, I would be content for him to do it somewhere else too and it very well could be in Indianapolis with Andrew Luck.

That's a great thought. Working with a QB with Luck's talent would probably the perfect situtation for him. Of course, it would probably be a pretty good opportunity for any HC candidate.

 

[den-the-coach]

And has had fans calling for his job his entire career and is 0-6 in the playoffs.

I still think Marvin Lewis is a heck of a coach though always liked him. Ever since I felt he got a raw deal in Buffalo when they interviewed him after the Super Bowl victory and his wife wanted to check out some Schools in Western, NY and they called him and informed not to check out the schools because they were hiring Gregg Williams...True Story! The Bills did not like that he didn't jump right at the chance liek Williams did.

 

[den-the-coach]

That's a great thought. Working with a QB with Luck's talent would probably the perfect situtation for him. Of course, it would probably be a pretty good opportunity for any HC candidate.

I would take it although I don't drink milk and cannot stand Jim Irsay. Any interest in being DC @FrankenRam ?

 

[OldSchool]

I still think Marvin Lewis is a heck of a coach though always liked him. Ever since I felt he got a raw deal in Buffalo when they interviewed him after the Super Bowl victory and his wife wanted to check out some Schools in Western, NY and they called him and informed not to check out the schools because they were hiring Gregg Williams...True Story! The Bills did not like that he didn't jump right at the chance liek Williams did.

I agree he's a good coach and a very likable guy, the type of guy most of us would like to have coaching the Rams. But his track record is very similar to Fishers with even less playoff success.

 

[den-the-coach]

I agree he's a good coach and a very likable guy, the type of guy most of us would like to have coaching the Rams. But his track record is very similar to Fishers with even less playoff success.

Very true, however, the Bengals were not winning or going to the playoffs so I guess he's more like Chuck Knox, don't you think? Although Knox did win some playoff games. I have a feeling if Lewis does not break through this year in post season and the team slides in the regular season next year, it could very well be his last.