Goff Trade Up

[Billy Baroo]

 

[Memphis Ram]

Then there is no such thing as an above average QB. They all struggle without what you just listed proving how silly this debate against Goff is. I hope you and your brother in crime can actually enjoy a Rams game at some point. The rest of us are loving this team.

Disagree. One can still be an above average QB and struggle minus every single aspect I provided. Their results won't be as good, but they are still the same QB. BTW, I'm sure we both enjoy the games once they start.

What is the matter with you? If Kupp makes that catch against the Seahawks, you're whole thesis doesn't exist.

What's the matter with you? Whether or not Kupp makes that catch has nothing to do with the point being made.

 

[iamme33]

What's the matter with you? Whether or not Kupp makes that catch has nothing to do with the point being made.

as a bystander I think the point being made is that Memphis likes a good argument.

 

[PhillyRam]

Bless you.

IMO, a QB that couldn't have success with a good OC/play call, strong running game, and loads of weapons can't really be considered an ave
rage QB.

Since we are all accused of reading between the lines and not understanding you, just tell us where you would rank Goff, just ballpark among other starters. 15, 20, 25...top 15.. where?

That would at least let us know where you stand without any mis-understanding.

While you are,at it where do feel his ceiling lies... top 10, top 15.... 20's.. where do you see him ending up?

 

[Mackeyser]

Only thing I'll say about Goff is that part of his "good protection" has to do with his exceptional footwork which augments the work of the OL.

How many times have we seen rookie/journeyman QBs who actually step into the rush or obviate a good block by being in the wrong place, thus allowing the defender to make a play?

Any time you see good protection, the QB plays a role in that. Goff's exceptional footwork definitely helps this OL.

 

[jrry32]

No jrry32. No jrry32. NO. NO. NO.:banghead:

You (and some others) are still reading in between the lines and somehow can't see it.

While I don't believe Goff is a difference maker, capable of overcoming poorer circumstances yet (if he gets there), I don't think Goff is an average QB. So your premise is and has been wrong from the very beginning.

Good grief. Let's try this another way. Take one QB. Anyone you want. Hey, you can even use Goff.

Which offense performs better?

The offense with a stud offensive coordinator / play caller, strong running game, and loads of weapons? Or the offense that lacks one or more of those attributes?

Do you get it now? Wouldn't the average QB thrive more under the former vs. the latter? And for the 3rd time (if not the 4th) in this thread, I wasn't saying that said average QB would thrive more or less than Goff has with the Rams this year. Some could and some might not. It's impossible to tell and besides the point. I just that said an average QB would thrive under the former. Shouldn't he? If not, then he isn't even average. ie. Goff is in a good situation.

I don't know how to make it any more clear.

Memphis, if some average QBs would thrive more with Rams and some average QBs would thrive less, you're calling Goff an average QB. There's no reading between the lines. That's taking your words at face value.

 

[dieterbrock]

Goff with a real average game tonight

 

[Memphis Ram]

Memphis, if some average QBs would thrive more with Rams and some average QBs would thrive less, you're calling Goff an average QB. There's no reading between the lines. That's taking your words at face value.

No Jrry32. No I am not calling him average. And yes, you are still reading in between the lines.

While I maintain all of this is besides the point being made, just for the sake of your desperation to go there, let's take a look.

As earlier stated, it's impossible to tell who might have better or lesser results than Goff. Why? Because everyone on the field aren't robots. They are human beings capable of great days or gaffes whether they are average or slightly above average. And even if we went with this imaginary scenario we've now developed where the offensive circumstances remain static for different QBs, we still have to take into account that these non robots are still playing a game were the players around them (offense and defense) are/or their circumstances not static on each play. This is a game of inches where tipped passes, broken tackles, slips, drops, misreads (there's some irony), etc... can change momentum and outcomes. Thus, again it is impossible to tell.

Also, this may be a reach (and show my age) in an effort to help explain, but maybe this helps. Years ago I watched Craig James and Eric Dickerson play at SMU. Craig James had better results, his first couple of seasons, but not once did I believe that James was a better RB than Dickerson. Nor would I believe that Benny Cunningham were better than Gurley if both were provided the same number of carries one season and Cunningham bested him in the stats.

Conclusion. It is possible for a lesser talented/rated QB to have better results than a higher rated QB.

 

[jrry32]

No Jrry32. No I am not calling him average. And yes, you are still reading in between the lines.

While I maintain all of this is besides the point being made, just for the sake of your desperation to go there, let's take a look.

As earlier stated, it's impossible to tell who might have better or lesser results than Goff. Why? Because everyone on the field aren't robots. They are human beings capable of great days or gaffes whether they are average or slightly above average. And even if we went with this imaginary scenario we've now developed where the offensive circumstances remain static for different QBs, we still have to take into account that these non robots are still playing a game were the players around them (offense and defense) are/or their circumstances not static on each play. This is a game of inches where tipped passes, broken tackles, slips, drops, misreads (there's some irony), etc... can change momentum and outcomes. Thus, again it is impossible to tell.

Also, this may be a reach (and show my age) in an effort to help explain, but maybe this helps. Years ago I watched Craig James and Eric Dickerson play at SMU. Craig James had better results, his first couple of seasons, but not once did I believe that James was a better RB than Dickerson. Nor would I believe that Benny Cunningham were better than Gurley if both were provided the same number of carries one season and Cunningham bested him in the stats.

Conclusion. It is possible for a lesser talented/rated QB to have better results than a higher rated QB.

Memphis, that doesn't make any sense at all. If the "lesser QB" is producing better results in the same situation in the NFL, he's not a lesser QB.

 

[A.J. Hicks]

This young 31 year old Mcvay is going to do wonders for the 23 year old Goff.

Mcvay is not just an offensive genius, he is truly a leader and a teacher. He is going to help Goff mature immensely through the next few years.

Goff has a very good head on his shoulders and he is taking very well to coaching. He is going to be taught how to grow into quite the leadership role, and he has some great people around him right now.

I was thinking earlier today. The first pin that dropped was hiring Mcvay, the rest of the pins dropped when he had great coaches wanting to work with him.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Memphis, if some average QBs would thrive more with Rams and some average QBs would thrive less, you're calling Goff an average QB. There's no reading between the lines. That's taking your words at face value.

I don't think that's what he is really implying. Suggesting that an 'average' QB could 'thrive' behind the much, much, much improved Rams offense is not saying Goff is average, ... it more attests to our OL, receiving corps and coaching being elevated to an entirely new level. I'm sure there are other QB's that could be successful with the Rams, but Goff has found great chemistry very early with his team-mates and is a clear cut & spectacular improvement over anything we have seen up to now. The fact that he is so young just makes it better than imagined. I would make the same deal the Rams did in spending those draft picks to bring in Goff had I known in advance what his presence would mean to the team, ... thankfully jrry32 had the fore site and caught this pre-draft, convincing many Rams fans he was on the right track. Both jrry32 & Memphis has it right, although this debate isn't. jmo.

 

[jrry32]

I don't think that's what he is really implying.

That's verbatim what he said.(some average QBs would thrive more, and some would thrive less here)

 

[Riverumbbq]

That's verbatim what he said.(some average QBs would thrive more, and some would thrive less here)

And I believe that to be true as well given proper consideration of our new OL, receivers & coaching.
Look, I've had long and uncomfortable debates with both of you, I believe the two of you are both very knowledgable posters, know the intricacies of the team, and present a well thought out argument, but neither of you have natural tendencies allowing you to shut down before things might go too far. I admit I can also be guilty of this. Sometimes it's better to sit it out rather than try to win a fake-news argument. jmo.

 

[dieterbrock]

So Craig James had more rushing yards as a Freshman than Eric Dickerson so that means Jared Goff can’t be considered good yet.

Not sure if I need to walk to school or take a lunch

 

[jrry32]

And I believe that to be true as well given proper consideration of our new OL, receivers & coaching.
Look, I've had long and uncomfortable debates with both of you, I believe the two of you are both very knowledgable posters, know the intricacies of the team, and present a well thought out argument, but neither of you have natural tendencies allowing you to shut down before things might go too far. I admit I can also be guilty of this. Sometimes it's better to sit it out rather than try to win a fake-news argument. jmo.

If you believe that to be true, then you believe that Goff is an average QB.

 

[Riverumbbq]

If you believe that to be true, then you believe that Goff is an average QB.

That is, of course, ridiculous. If you want to carry on this game with Memphis, have at it, ... but i'm out.

 

[jrry32]

That is, of course, ridiculous. If you want to carry on this game with Memphis, have at it, ... but i'm out.

That's taking you at your word. You are saying, "Well, she looks better than some 7s and worse than other 7s." And then when someone says, "Wait, so she's a 7?" You say, "No, why would she be a 7?"

It doesn't make sense. If Goff would play better than some average QBs here and worse than other average QBs here, you are saying he's an average QB. If Goff is not an average QB, he's not going to get outperformed by average QBs in the exact same circumstances. I'm not sure what is debatable about this.

I am utterly baffled that anyone can argue otherwise. It's like arguing that person A has $100, which is more than you have, and person B has $98, which is less than you have, but you don't have between $98.01 and $99.99. It's nonsensical.

 

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[Riverumbbq]

View attachment 22753

Yup, and i'm not getting sucked into it. You all have fun now, hear ?

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

Is this thing still going?

Great trade up for what is becoming a great qb. Can't wait to see him play all these tough teams in the next 6 weeks and what he looks like after it.

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