Foles impact on dropped passes

[RamzFanz]

Very true. Bradford threw too hard although I saw better touch on Monday Night.

The converse of saying that Foles doesn't miss that pass to Matthews is that Bradford doesn't under throw Austin when he had Sherman beat. That's one thing Bradford always had, a really deadly long ball.

Funny thing is that I think both QBs are better off where they are now, so I'm happy.

And I think Foles will adjust to Tayawesome's Ludicrous Speed (he's gone plaid!) and will hit those shots in the future.

I agree 100% except with the caveat to that is Bradford just stopped throwing the long ball in St Louis. There may be a lot of reasons why, but he went dink and dunk and with that ball speed, it just didn't work.

I prefer a massive arching ball to Quick and Britt than a 500MPH 10 yard pass to Austin,

 

[DR RAM]

I agree 100% except with the caveat to that is Bradford just stopped throwing the long ball in St Louis. There may be a lot of reasons why, but he went dink and dunk and with that ball speed, it just didn't work.

I prefer a massive arching ball to Quick and Britt than a 500MPH 10 yard pass to Austin,

Let's see how much you prefer that, when we pick, Cousin's off 3 X . I think k you'll be fine, but if the pass, was on another foot/arm, per se. Let's hope THAT does never happen.

I hope it NEVER happens, with my Rams.

 

[Rainram]

Yeah, but I would like to know how many passes Foles had batted down in comparison with Sam. Just this last game.

To me, that was always the worst deal-breaker: batted-down passes. I mean, come on: You're 6'5", for goodness' sakes, can't you loft the ball OVER those guys' heads?

Yea...this always had me curious. Granted, I have absolutely zero statistical data to back it up, but it sure seemed like Sam had a lot of balls batted at the LOS. He had at least one last night that I saw. It was frustrating.

 

[kurtfaulk]

I agree 100% except with the caveat to that is Bradford just stopped throwing the long ball in St Louis. There may be a lot of reasons why, but he went dink and dunk and with that ball speed, it just didn't work.

I prefer a massive arching ball to Quick and Britt than a 500MPH 10 yard pass to Austin,

Please go watch the last regular season game he played for the Rams and see if he stopped throwing the long ball.

.

 

[Alan]

blackbart with high expectations:
Saying the ball is throw too hard is just making excuses for the guys not making the catches. They need to work harder concentrate more and be ready to catch the ball. Can the QB put touch on a pass absolutely but there is just no excuse for not catching a ball that is on your hands.

I'm not sure that anyone is saying the ball is thrown too hard. Sometimes it's absolutely has to be thrown hard or you can't get it into small windows. Does a batter get a hit every time he comes to bat even though that's his job? Why not? I'd posit that it's because it's so very hard to do. The more difficult something is to do the less often it's done successfully by even the best hitters/WRs. Is the ball harder to catch when it's cold outside and your hands lose some of their sensitivity and the ball gets harder and loses some it's give? Is it harder to catch a wet ball? Is it harder to catch a ball that is thrown at high velocity as compared to catching one thrown at low velocity? Should you assess total blame for any dropped pass solely on the WR under all these adverse conditions or just some of them? I'm not sure how you can call all those factors excuses. At least in a pejorative way.

 

[fastcat]

NO one cane deny Bradford throws the ball hard even when he shouldnt. His passes get batted at the Los because he throws hard with not a lot of tragectory. But it's a combination of his ball speed and a recievers natural god giving gift to catch a ball that contributes to his dropped passes. Watching that eagles game last night there were alot of drops you can't blame Sam for all of them especially that last one... wasn't his fualt and that ball wasn't thrown too hard imo. Every reciever can't catch an egg without breaking it.

And Bradford is a check down artist. Can't deny that either... last night one of the announcers (I think it was grudgen) said Sam has thrown 70% of his throws 10yds or less. Idk but that sound like it sucks...

 

[DR RAM]

NO one cane deny Bradford throws the ball hard even when he shouldnt. His passes get batted at the Los because he throws hard with not a lot of tragectory. But it's a combination of his ball speed and a recievers natural god giving gift to catch a ball that contributes to his dropped passes. Watching that eagles game last night there were alot of drops you can't blame Sam for all of them especially that last one... wasn't his fualt and that ball wasn't thrown too hard imo. Every reciever can't catch an egg without breaking it.

And Bradford is a check down artist. Can't deny that either... last night one of the announcers (I think it was grudgen) said Sam has thrown 70% of his throws 10yds or less. Idk but that sound like it sucks...

You cane r so.r8tt.

My only question. ... why does whatever, Sam does, have anything to do with what we do....this year? Sorry. There is zero correlation. PFF will never accurately define, what he did ,or didn't do for us. It doesn't even fucking matter, now.

Nick Foles, and Case Keenum, are our QB'S now. Every other Qb, is completely irrelevant. But,, let us not lose our senses, after, one game.

Wins is ALL that matters, and we have one, so far. Hopefully, we will have two, by next week.

Know what gets us to the show? Wins, and in the end, playoff wins. Season, and regular season wins, gets us closer, to what we all want....I hope that winning our last few games, is all that matters, in the end .

Wins, regardless of QB, or anything else. Wins.....we win, we keep moving. Period.

 

[shaunpinney]

IMO Bradford had no touch. That manifested itself in many ways. Couldn't throw a screen pass because he'd make a line drive throw instead of lofting it over the incoming rushers. Couldn't throw the rainbow pass to the corner of the end zone. Always threw a fastball even when he didn't need to. It's obvious that fastballs are harder to catch than off speed balls.

On the other hand, SB is more accurate which makes up for many of those drops.

I loved that last pass to Kendricks, seemed to be perfectly thrown, and I did catch myself thinking if SB would have thrown that, I'm gutted the Eagles lost this week tbh, would have liked to see Sam get that win under his belt, then again a full game is a bonus

I don't wish any harm or bad luck on Sam, I feel emotionally attached to the guy, he's taken a lot of my emotional quota over the last few years as a ram, kinda like an ex that you've just decided to go your separate ways, no hard feelings, we can still be friends....

 

[shaunpinney]

But in all seriousness, the difference this year could be Jeff Garcia - it can't hurt having a QB working full time with the WRs, how best they should position themselves for the ball, against defenders etc... just saying

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Exactly, for every play, there is a proper response/action, on, at least, a 20 yd pass on 3rd down to a wide open receiver. Yeah, pretty much covered all that.

Every play, every down and distance has its own dichotomy. My dear, Lord, Rodgers throws that....his fault? bullcrap. Ask Matthews... not engaging in further nonsense.

Nobody, ever catch a damn ball ???? Wow. I'm happy, and fully support , Foles. He's my guy, now. If he screws up, or makes a good play, either way, it is what it is.

????

 

[blue4]

I'm not sure that anyone is saying the ball is thrown too hard. Sometimes it's absolutely has to be thrown hard or you can't get it into small windows. Does a batter get a hit every time he comes to bat even though that's his job? Why not? I'd posit that it's because it's so very hard to do. The more difficult something is to do the less often it's done successfully by even the best hitters/WRs. Is the ball harder to catch when it's cold outside and your hands lose some of their sensitivity and the ball gets harder and loses some it's give? Is it harder to catch a wet ball? Is it harder to catch a ball that is thrown at high velocity as compared to catching one thrown at low velocity? Should you assess total blame for any dropped pass solely on the WR under all these adverse conditions or just some of them? I'm not sure how you can call all those factors excuses. At least in a pejorative way.

My HS coach viewed any pass that hits you either in the hands or the body as a catchable pass and should be caught. No blaming anyone else. As he said, "that's why you're a WR and not a DB so catch the #@$#ing ball!" You could say $@#!ing in those days without someone's mother fainting away.

Admittedly most of us WRs were also DBs because of small school player shortage but I agree with the gist of the statement. There's no way that pass to Matthews should have been intercepted. Not saying Bradford doesn't throw too hard sometimes but that one's on the WR IMO.

 

[jjab360]

My HS coach viewed any pass that hits you either in the hands or the body as a catchable pass and should be caught. No blaming anyone else. As he said, "that's why you're a WR and not a DB so catch the #@$#ing ball!" You could say $@#!ing in those days without someone's mother fainting away.

That doesn't take away from the fact that it's the QB's job to make the ball as catchable as possible.

Not every ball that hits the receiver's hands is a good pass, especially not at the highest level.

 

[blue4]

That doesn't take away from the fact that it's the QB's job to make the ball as catchable as possible.

Not every ball that hits the receiver's hands is a good pass, especially not at the highest level.

True, but at the highest level that's a catchable ball. People tend to lay a lot of blame on QBs that they aren't a fan of, and excuse the same stuff when a QBs they like does it.

 

[blackbart]

Alan over analyzing it

I'm not sure that anyone is saying the ball is thrown too hard. Sometimes it's absolutely has to be thrown hard or you can't get it into small windows. Does a batter get a hit every time he comes to bat even though that's his job? Why not? I'd posit that it's because it's so very hard to do. The more difficult something is to do the less often it's done successfully by even the best hitters/WRs. Is the ball harder to catch when it's cold outside and your hands lose some of their sensitivity and the ball gets harder and loses some it's give? Is it harder to catch a wet ball? Is it harder to catch a ball that is thrown at high velocity as compared to catching one thrown at low velocity? Should you assess total blame for any dropped pass solely on the WR under all these adverse conditions or just some of them? I'm not sure how you can call all those factors excuses. At least in a pejorative way.

Catching a football for a guy playing at the NFL level should be expected.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Wow, drooped passes thread gone WILD!
That pass to Matthews, the last one, should have been caught. Was it too hard? Depends...QB's job is to move the sticks, it's also in a lot of traffic. Most, and I would, prefer you put a lil smoke on a pass in the middle of the field with a bunch of traffic around. Matthews reacted like it was HIS fault. So that was on the wr..But as a QB, your job is to make the pass as catchable as possible. If your throwing a bullet, bring it down. How close were they to each other? It's not necessary to throw a bullet pass if you're that close, but if so, make it as catchable as possible.

My HS coach viewed any pass that hits you either in the hands or the body as a catchable pass and should be caught. No blaming anyone else.

True....and Matthews is a pro...It's assumed he has great hands...It's Bradford's job to make it as easy as possible. That play is all Matthews, but the EAGLES lost the game...Maybe the QB needs to adjust how he plays, just a lil bit.

 

[blue4]

Wow, drooped passes thread gone WILD!
That pass to Matthews, the last one, should have been caught. Was it too hard? Depends...QB's job is to move the sticks, it's also in a lot of traffic. Most, and I would, prefer you put a lil smoke on a pass in the middle of the field with a bunch of traffic around. Matthews reacted like it was HIS fault. So that was on the wr..But as a QB, your job is to make the pass as catchable as possible. If your throwing a bullet, bring it down. How close were they to each other? It's not necessary to throw a bullet pass if you're that close, but if so, make it as catchable as possible.
True....and Matthews is a pro...It's assumed he has great hands...It's Bradford's job to make it as easy as possible. That play is all Matthews, but the EAGLES lost the game...Maybe the QB needs to adjust how he plays, just a lil bit.

If the Eagles kicker makes that FG, Bradford's game gets viewed in a whole new light.

I honestly think the difference is the WRs not the QBs for our drops. Look at the difference that our WRs made this game as opposed to games past. Crisp routes, proper hand placement and fundamentals catching. Full effort in decoy routes and in 3rd or 4th option routes. Look at TA pass the Sherman had the DPI on. He ran a good route, beat a good CB, and made a good adjustment on a poorly thrown ball. All things he did not or could not do in the early stages with Sam. There were no getting to spots late, no jumping to catch a pass arriving head high in order to catch it in the chest. No stupid stuff. That's the difference maker in my mind.

I think a lot of these nitpick QB comparisons is just a way to feel as if we won the trade. The body language stuff, the analyzing every pass. To me we traded a health liability with high cost for a healthier cheaper QB. Both are starter quality. So in my mind we won, regardless of what Sam does this year. We have finally got a healthy starter and our draft picks finally seem to have flipped the light switch. Our OL even though young and inexperienced is much more physically imposing than in years past so that alone will keep a DLmans hands down and locked up in regards to batted balls.

 

[LesBaker]

yea Bradford's definitely accurate but most of the time he's got one speed.. missile

that throw to Matthews last night to end the game was a perfect example

LULZ at the "accurate" remark..........

Not again!!!

 

[Alan]

I'll just add this to what I've already said to make sure that I'm not being misunderstood and not, to some degree, being taken out of context.

I didn't watch the Shegal game and so I don't know how Sam played. My comments about Sam only reflected his performance as a Ram and even then, he was steadily improving in the "touch" area of his game. Very modest improvement but improvement nonetheless.

I was mainly just responding to this question from @RamBall , "Does Foles throw a more catchable ball" and so most, if not all, of my comments were/are relative. Though of course I believe them to be true generally too. Do I think the vast majority of those fastballs should be caught? Yes. Will there be more drops due solely to the extra force in the equation? Yes. Will catching a bullet thrown to you from a short distance away be very very hard to catch due to the short reaction time available? Yes.

Something else I said (Sam's more accurate) seems to have been largely ignored and it shouldn't because it directly relates to how catchable his throws are and for that matter, his overall success as a QB. A bullet that's thrown right to the sweet spot of a WR's catching radius is easier to catch than a floater that is barely in his catching radius.

But...the more velocity a throw has the harder it is to catch. The harder a pass is to catch the more likely it is it won't be caught. There are no credible arguments that can refute those two statements IMO.

 

[LesBaker]

I'm not sure I've seen ANYONE here blame that loss or at least that specific throw on Sam. That ball HAS to be caught.

This thread is just a discussion of Bradford vs. Foles' touch on passes in general, and I think it is in good faith towards Sam.

I dunno, it was not a simple catch. It was high and behind him and coming in too fast. That's a challenging catch with a defender hitting you as the ball is arriving.

 

[bskrilla]

I dunno, it was not a simple catch. It was high and behind him and coming in too fast. That's a challenging catch with a defender hitting you as the ball is arriving.

Never said it was a simple catch, but it's a ball that has to be caught. Maybe Sam could have made a slightly better pass, but if you ask Mathews I'm sure he tells you 10 times out of 10 he should catch that ball.