Westbrooks or Sam

[Slappy967]

You will have to excuse me for paraphrasing what the fine folks on NFL Network said about the Westbrooks/Sam battle. I won't lie I am a huge backer of Michael Sam and want him on the team. Just regurgitated what they had said so as not to be blinded by my rose colored glasses lol.

 

[HometownBoy]

Unless Sam is going to play a gunner, then no...Pead did not make room for Sam.

I imagine he might, Rams will probably go internal to replace Pead and that might leave room for him in place of another gunner.

 

[badnews]

Bradford. ...Holy Hell!!!

Wrong thread?

 

[CoachO]

If someone forced me to bet money on it, I'd say Westbrooks. His games have been better, esp the talk of him pushing the pocket from both DT and DE spots. If Sam's forte is rushing the passer, and Westbrooks actually has better pass rushing stats, how does that leave a door for Sam? Sam's not going to push anything at 257, nor do I think he'd hold up in the regular season if forced to play when the starters actually care. That's just based on the limited amount I've seen. I'd have to leave it up to CoachO to say exactly how much we should read into his ST ability. I'd say Sam needs big showings in the 3rd and 4th games to beat Westbrooks apparent versatility.

Of course Sam has two games to go. More than enough time. Heck, that's enough time for Conrath to come on and force one of those guys out.

I just don't understand why so many doubt Michael Sam's place on this team? I am not going to the whole debate regarding him and/or Westbrooks. It just seems to me, that there are an awful lot of people who want to put this kid down for whatever reason (?) and minimize his ability.

As I mentioned in my previous post, he has taken more practice reps than any other D-lineman, and has yet to show he doesn't belong. People question his size, but yet, seem to overlook the results. I think it's way too soon to be writing him off, and trying to say that Westbrooks is "hands down" a better player.

Again, to base your evaluation off of "pass rushing stats" IMO, is shortsighted. They have different skill sets, and each have a unique talent. They each have certain advantages over the other. It's gonna come down to which player fits the role, and how that role is defined by the coaching staff.

 

[Blue and Gold]

Anyone know what Westbrooks playing weight is?

he came in to rookie camp at 267 or so. They asked him to come to camp at 275 or so, but he thought he was sluggish. THrough camp I think he's dropped a couple, but I'd say now he's 270-275 or so.

 

[paceram]

I just don't understand why so many doubt Michael Sam's place on this team? I am not going to the whole debate regarding him and/or Westbrooks. It just seems to me, that there are an awful lot of people who want to put this kid down for whatever reason (?) and minimize his ability.

As I mentioned in my previous post, he has taken more practice reps than any other D-lineman, and has yet to show he doesn't belong. People question his size, but yet, seem to overlook the results. I think it's way too soon to be writing him off, and trying to say that Westbrooks is "hands down" a better player.

Again, to base your evaluation off of "pass rushing stats" IMO, is shortsighted. They have different skill sets, and each have a unique talent. They each have certain advantages over the other. It's gonna come down to which player fits the role, and how that role is defined by the coaching staff.

So Coach (Really respect & appreciate your thoughts and opinions!) do you think there is any chance they both make the final roster?

 

[Slappy967]

I am still banging the drum for cutting someone else and keeping both guys! I think Sam deserves his spot on this team and honestly seeing him line up next to Westbrooks made me feel good about our teams talent/depth going forward.

 

[CoachO]

So Coach (Really respect & appreciate your thoughts and opinions!) do you think there is any chance they both make the final roster?

I think there's a better chance neither of them make it than BOTH making it. It all depends on what they end up thinking of Conrath and Carrington.

The other variable in this entire scenario, is the health of Wm. Hayes. Not much has been said about him, but he hasn't taken anything than more than token reps even this late into training camp. While it might be a surprise, it wouldn't shock me to see him start the year as the "designated for return IR" guy.

Now, if any or all of these scenarios develop further, be it Hayes, Conrath, or Carrington not being on the 53, then yes, they could BOTH make it.

 

[blue4]

I just don't understand why so many doubt Michael Sam's place on this team? I am not going to the whole debate regarding him and/or Westbrooks. It just seems to me, that there are an awful lot of people who want to put this kid down for whatever reason (?) and minimize his ability.

As I mentioned in my previous post, he has taken more practice reps than any other D-lineman, and has yet to show he doesn't belong. People question his size, but yet, seem to overlook the results. I think it's way too soon to be writing him off, and trying to say that Westbrooks is "hands down" a better player.

Again, to base your evaluation off of "pass rushing stats" IMO, is shortsighted. They have different skill sets, and each have a unique talent. They each have certain advantages over the other. It's gonna come down to which player fits the role, and how that role is defined by the coaching staff.

I believe I was fairly clear that I was not writing anyone off. I can only go by what I've seen. Which I stated was limited, and that there was a lot more preseason to be played. I never once stated that he is the hands down better player. I did say that at this point I think Westbrooks is winning any "battle" for the squad.

And according to what I've read, including your own camp reports, Sam is getting those reps because of Haynes injury, not because of any special reason. I do admit I question his size despite his results, because his results are in preseason, and a 257lb DE in the regular season isn't the same as a 257lb DE in preseason.

Also to be clear, My doubts about Sam are no big endorsement of Westbrooks. They are both low tier rookies in camp. But the OP wanted our choice, and for my money right now that's Westbrooks.

 

[HE WITH HORNS]

Westbrooks won't clear waivers. Other teams are keeping an eye on our Dline cuts.

 

[CoachO]

I believe I was fairly clear that I was not writing anyone off. I can only go by what I've seen. Which I stated was limited, and that there was a lot more preseason to be played. I never once stated that he is the hands down better player. I did say that at this point I think Westbrooks is winning any "battle" for the squad.

And according to what I've read, including your own camp reports, Sam is getting those reps because of Haynes injury, not because of any special reason. I do admit I question his size despite his results, because his results are in preseason, and a 257lb DE in the regular season isn't the same as a 257lb DE in preseason.

Also to be clear, My doubts about Sam are no big endorsement of Westbrooks. They are both low tier rookies in camp. But the OP wanted our choice, and for my money right now that's Westbrooks.

I should have been clear, that while I quoted your post, I wasn't necessarily responding to you specifically. As far as Sam getting those reps only because Hayes isn't there, can't the exact same thing be said about Westbrooks? They have been rotating with those 2nd unit reps, pretty much on a daily basis.

And to your point, and this time I am directing this to you, about Michael Sam being too light at 257 lbs, explain to me how Robert Quinn, being 2 inches taller is productive at 265? IMO, its not about the weight, its about explosion and leverage. Something both Quinn and Sam have plenty of.

Michael Sam has the ability to drop hips, and turn the corner, like few DEs can. That isn't about weight. That's balance, and techinque. HE can get underneath most Tackles, and if he can keep them from getting their hands on him, he wins more than he loses. Ethan Westbrooks plays much more upright, and uses quickness as his biggest weapon. In much the same way Aaron Donald can be so effective as an inside rusher, Westbrooks uses his quickness off the ball. Its not about strength with him either. It's also that "quickness" that leads to the high number of off sides penalties. Fortunately, it hasn't shown up in the TWO PS games yet, but it has in practice.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Guessing Westbrooks stays. Sam goes to practice squad. And I believe no one picks him up and he makes it there because of the potential distraction & his 4-3 DE limitation based on what was said to be a poor pre-draft 3-4 LB skill set.

 

[blue4]

I should have been clear, that while I quoted your post, I wasn't necessarily responding to you specifically. As far as Sam getting those reps only because Hayes isn't there, can't the exact same thing be said about Westbrooks? They have been rotating with those 2nd unit reps, pretty much on a daily basis.

And to your point, and this time I am directing this to you, about Michael Sam being too light at 257 lbs, explain to me how Robert Quinn, being 2 inches taller is productive at 265? IMO, its not about the weight, its about explosion and leverage. Something both Quinn and Sam have plenty of.

Michael Sam has the ability to drop hips, and turn the corner, like few DEs can. That isn't about weight. That's balance, and techinque. HE can get underneath most Tackles, and if he can keep them from getting their hands on him, he wins more than he loses. Ethan Westbrooks plays much more upright, and uses quickness as his biggest weapon. In much the same way Aaron Donald can be so effective as an inside rusher, Westbrooks uses his quickness off the ball. Its not about strength with him either. It's also that "quickness" that leads to the high number of off sides penalties. Fortunately, it hasn't shown up in the TWO PS games yet, but it has in practice.

My only response to the Quinn/Sam comparison is that Quinn is stronger, faster, and a freak of nature. His technique is off the charts, according to every human who has witnessed him. If Sam had any of that he would have went earlier than the 7th round.

As far as the reps, again wasn't Westbrooks injured? So he wouldn't have been trading reps with Sam until recently. So, I guess I'm not getting the importance of Sam taking all those reps.

Even though I think 257 is too light, esp after the normal weight loss some players take through the regular season, I would be overjoyed if Sam proved me wrong. But again, at this point, if I was forced to pick a player I would pick Westbrooks. I freely admit I may be underestimating Sam, but I think there's just as good a chance that others are overestimating his upside.

 

[12intheBox]

Guessing Westbrooks stays. Sam goes to practice squad. And I believe no one picks him up and he makes it there because of the potential distraction & his 4-3 DE limitation based on what was said to be a poor pre-draft 3-4 LB skill set.

I agree with this in most parts but not so much the distraction part of the equation. I think the Rams have shown pretty clearly that there isn't much of one. If he gets picked up - it's a day or two of news and then it's done.

 

[blue4]

I agree with this in most parts but not so much the distraction part of the equation. I think the Rams have shown pretty clearly that there isn't much of one. If he gets picked up - it's a day or two of news and then it's done.

I agree, there's no distraction. I think that if one of those two were cut, they wouldn't be around long enough to be the PS.

 

[CoachO]

My only response to the Quinn/Sam comparison is that Quinn is stronger, faster, and a freak of nature. His technique is off the charts, according to every human who has witnessed him. If Sam had any of that he would have went earlier than the 7th round.

As far as the reps, again wasn't Westbrooks injured? So he wouldn't have been trading reps with Sam until recently. So, I guess I'm not getting the importance of Sam taking all those reps.

Even though I think 257 is too light, esp after the normal weight loss some players take through the regular season, I would be overjoyed if Sam proved me wrong. But again, at this point, if I was forced to pick a player I would pick Westbrooks. I freely admit I may be underestimating Sam, but I think there's just as good a chance that others are overestimating his upside.

So your only response is to ignore what I said about Sam, as it compares to SIZE and WEIGHT compared to Quinns? It took Robert Quinn into his 3rd year to really learn to perfect his technique as a compete DE. I mm in no way trying to say Sam has comparable talent, but they are similar in weight. So that for me should negate your concern that he is too light.

My point to the extra reps, have you ever heard of "Camp legs"? Westbrooks missed virtually 3 weeks of camp. While Sam took twice the reps of any other DL on the roster. Do you not think that just maybe he has leveled off due to hitting the proverbial wall, while Westbrooks is just hitting his stride after missing so much time?

IMO, too much is being made of where Sam was drafted, as some sort of statement as to his "true" talent, when I didn't hear of a single draft "expert" that had him anything other than a mid round 4-5 round talent. I'm guessing you didn't watch much of Michael Sam at Mizzou. Or you discount the impact he had on the SEC. So with thatsaid, I definitely think you are underestimating his ability, and over estimating Westbrooks to some degree.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I agree with this in most parts but not so much the distraction part of the equation. I think the Rams have shown pretty clearly that there isn't much of one. If he gets picked up - it's a day or two of news and then it's done.

No distraction with Jeff Fisher and the Rams in St. Louis, MO doesn't mean that he wouldn't be one elsewhere.

 

[The Rammer]

lol just think about it.... how times in the last few years have we had the chance to debate who is going to be our 3rd string anything? This is great being able to have to worry about things like this!


with that being said I think we will have both make it to the roster

 

[CGI_Ram]

It's difficult to guess right now and there are 2 more games to evaluate.

I'm starting to hope both make the roster. If forced to pick; E.W.

 

[BonifayRam]

The real news from all the above is the new ideal very slight possibility statement on William Hayes to the IR to return at a later date.....if so that would make the possibility of both DE Sam & especially DT/DE Westbrooks making the 53 player master roster. This provides time to get Hayes healthy & strong and also permits more time to observe Westbrooks & Sam!


Lets say Conrath holds up better as the back up to LDT Brockers than Carrington does.....Donald is a solid reserve behind Langford @ RDT now Hayes has been the usual reserve behind LDE Long & fills in for Brockers on passing downs where Sims in the past has done the RDE & RDT rotation...The 29 yr old veteran William Hayes temporarily dropping out of the picture (IR) sure gives Westbrooks a ideal good spot in that rotation behind either DE Long or DT Brockers in pass defenses.

Having 3 ROOKIES make this DL in 2014 is just too much to digest for most wise fans but here where this situation will sure will come in very handy later...... in the near future when options may be seriously needed when all pro Quinn & just as highly important Brockers in 2016 beckon to get high $$$ contracts!

If Rams do suffer an injury & that DL'er gets IR'd then Hayes can return and fill his spot. Sounds smart to me

LDE- Long / Westbrooks
LDT- Brockers / Conrath
RDT- Langford / Donald
RDE- Quinn / Sims / Sam