Trust you're own eyes...

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max

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I remember when Gabbert came out in 2011. I didn't like him at all. Watched him play at Missouri and he looked so timid in the pocket. But, there were all those draft guru's out there telling me he's a franchise guy.

Here's Mayock...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...aine-gabbert-pro-day/index.html#ixzz2wEeZC9nM

"He's my No. 1 quarterback, and to me he's the one quarterback in the draft who, if you've got to bang the table for a franchise quarterback, he's the guy,'' NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock said after Gabbert's workout. "The kid confirmed everything you want to see in a franchise quarterback. I thought he did as good as he could have. His footwork was real clean. His arm was real accurate, and his arm strength was great.''

So all you guys remember, trust your own eyes, these guru's are not as good as the NFL GMs and scouts, and those guys get plenty wrong.

Mayock is ok, I guess, but he is nowhere near as good as he is loud. He's better than Kiper, but he's a far cry from Joel Buchsbaum. JB was the only guy who if I disagreed with I thought I was wrong.

This year, the guy that Mayock has as his #1 Safety is Pryor. And I don't like him at all. We shall see.
 

Tron

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This year, the guy that Mayock has as his #1 Safety is Pryor. And I don't like him at all. We shall see.

You sir, are not getting a Christmas fruitcake from me this year!!!!!!!
 

Sum1

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I never understood the Gabbert stuff...and I'm a Mizzou fan. During his time at Missouri I didn't like him. I saw bust the whole way.

I don't pretend to be some talent guru...but there is usually a player or two that I watch and I just don't see the accolades and I think they will bust...I find myself right more than wrong in that respect.

...only if I had a better track record for the guys I thought were going to be studs, then I might be doing something else for a living. :)
 

max

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
You sir, are not getting a Christmas fruitcake from me this year!!!!!!!

Don't send one to Boylhart either...
Calvin Pryor S Louisville

TALENT BOARD ROUND 3

STRENGTHS
Calvin reminds me of safety Donte Whitner. He has good size and the speed to run down players from behind and is quick to come up and support the run even when he is playing the single safety position and is lined up 40 yards away from the line of scrimmage. Calvin has played all over the defensive backfield and in nickel-dime coverage is sometimes used as a zone cover corner on the outside because he is stout against the run and has the right size and length for making plays from that position. Playing Calvin there discourages teams from running those stretch plays around the outside that so many college teams run on third and long. Calvin can handle some zone coverage as a corner in a pinch because of his size and “run support” attitude. He’s also terrific playing the free safety position or the strong safety position and this type of athletic talent is what most teams look for now in a college defensive back. The problem is, I’m not convinced that Calvin has the football intelligence to handle multiple positions at the next level at this point in his career because Calvin is a guesser.

CONCERNS
Calvin is what I call a “guesser” safety. He comes up in run support more quickly than most, but continuously takes bad angles and misses tackles trying to make the big nit. He seems confused in zone coverage and consistently gets beat. He lets receivers behind him because he is so interested in supporting the run. He looks into the backfield way too long and gets fooled by smart quarterbacks at the college level. In single coverage as a free safety, he doesn’t keep the play in front of him and receivers are beating him on crossing routes because his first move is to step up instead of back on the snap of the ball. When he is up near the line of scrimmage, he does a good job in coverage on the short routes but still doesn’t have the vision or understanding of what routes are being used against him to clear him out for other receivers.

BOTTOM LINE
I’m sure Calvin is going to impress a lot of teams with his wild and inconsistent play on the field because he is flashy. When he comes from the single safety position to support the run he looks like a heat seeking missile; unfortunately, most of the time he flames out taking the wrong angle or missing the tackle. He is a sloppy tackler, but once he gets his hands on a player, he usually makes the tackle. The biggest problem that I have about Calvin is he doesn’t play smart. He doesn’t understand the passing game or the running game. If he did, he would not get beat over the top and he would take better angles when supporting the run. Calvin guesses and, when his guesses are correct, he wows the uniformed and easily manipulated evaluator. I waited to see the combine numbers on Calvin and I have to tell you he plays faster than he timed at the combine, but what I wanted to see was his change of direction skills and explosion when he changed direction because a player who takes as many poor angles as Calvin does usually is lacking those important skills. Calvin did not run the short shuttle and that’s the drill that tells me if a player has good changing of direction. The lack of change of direction skills is the root cause for missing tackles when a player takes the wrong angles. This can be overcome if a player plays with more discipline, but that’s not in Calvin’s mental makeup. His play on the field suggests that discipline is best left to his teammates and not to him. That’s why he reminds me of Donta Whitner who is a serviceable and solid safety, but not a player who I’d draft in the 1st round to run my defensive backfield.

Drew Boylhart
MAR/2014
 

RamFan503

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I see this a lot with Pacific conference players. I think even though these guys talk a big talk about certain players, they still have probably mostly seen highlights and haven't poured over coaches tapes and the likes. I think we may assume they have because they are "experts". But I have watched countless times when they rave about a player that I have watched quite a bit for a couple years and for the life of me I can't figure out what they are watching. And then they totally miss on other real players coming out of our conference.

This is also why I have a hard time buying into many mocks. They are so busy patting each other on their backs that they create a lot of top prospects out of thin air and stats.
 

tbux

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using one bad assessment on a draft guy is hardly fair- there isnt a GM, Scout, draft guru, etc who doesnt miss on player- they all do. When you cherry pick a player- not really a fair way to do it. Mayock is well respected and actually one of the better ones out there. Like all though, he will miss on some. I would say he gets more right than most of the draft gurus out there however.
 

NJRamsFan

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For whatever reason guys like Mike Mayock and Mel Kiper have infinite job security. Turns it doesn't matter how accurate they are, just matters that they have a strong opinion
 

iced

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Happens all the time - the draft isn't a perfect science...
 

tbux

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True NJ- but if they were constantly getting tem wrong- doubt NFL Network would continue to use him for their draft analysis. Mayock in particular is renowned for his tape work - and works very hard by most accounts. Thing is, draft is an inexact science. You never know how a kid will adapt to a different life. Some do it seemlessly, some have a hard time with it. NOBODY hits every pick, I dont care who you are. You can tell who are the good ones, and who is just a loud mouth.
 

iced

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For whatever reason guys like Mike Mayock and Mel Kiper have infinite job security. Turns it doesn't matter how accurate they are, just matters that they have a strong opinion

Mayock is in a different league than Kiper... Kiper is a sham or a whack as well as that idiot he argues with..

Mayock is one of the better/best analysts out there and actually comes across inciteful - and someone else alluded too, he's usually more right than wrong
 

Username

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I for one definitely don't think khalil Mack should be the 1st overall pick in the draft. That's my big disagreement with him this year.

I like Mayock though. Don't agree with him on everything, but at least he's tollerable to listen to unlike some of the "experts."
 

NJRamsFan

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True NJ- but if they were constantly getting tem wrong- doubt NFL Network would continue to use him for their draft analysis. Mayock in particular is renowned for his tape work - and works very hard by most accounts. Thing is, draft is an inexact science. You never know how a kid will adapt to a different life. Some do it seemlessly, some have a hard time with it. NOBODY hits every pick, I dont care who you are. You can tell who are the good ones, and who is just a loud mouth.

Yeah I mean the guys aren't completely incompetent but if you go back and review their mock drafts they aren't very accurate at all...just educated guesses which obviously is all you can do however, hardly makes them "experts" that some make them out to be. And as far as their player analysis if you really look closely they're they're not saying much that doesn't get tossed around by us fans on these boards, clearly more detailed as it should be but from a content standpoint...not too different.
 

NJRamsFan

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Mayock is in a different league than Kiper... Kiper is a sham or a whack as well as that idiot he argues with..

Mayock is one of the better/best analysts out there and actually comes across inciteful - and someone else alluded too, he's usually more right than wrong

Best and brightest of the bottom of the barrel
 

iced

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Yeah I mean the guys aren't completely incompetent but if you go back and review their mock drafts they aren't very accurate at all...just educated guesses which obviously is all you can do however, hardly makes them "experts" that some make them out to be. And as far as their player analysis if you really look closely they're they're not saying much that doesn't get tossed around by us fans on these boards, clearly more detailed as it should be but from a content standpoint...not too different.
actually you should look at mayock's mock drafts the day or 2 before the draft - his hit mark is one of the better ones around
 

NJRamsFan

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actually you should look at mayock's mock drafts the day or 2 before the draft - his hit mark is one of the better ones around the league

Im not personally attacking mayock thats why i said in my first post "guys like". either way, when your job is to analyze these prospects for a living getting a handful right and parading yourself on tv like your bill belichick is hardly impressive.

i did go back...not impressed
 

iced

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Im not personally attacking mayock thats why i said in my first post "guys like". either way, when your job is to analyze these prospects for a living getting a handful right and parading yourself on tv like your bill belichick is hardly impressive.

i did go back...not impressed

Are you talking about the players themselves as prospects or where they go in the draft?

Cause Lord knows, you can't predict what people like Al Davis and matt millen are gonna do on draft day..and they are by far and few the only "questionable" owners/gm's
 

tbux

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NJ- some guys are lazy and vague- some guys do their homework- and usually you can tell. Mayock does his homework. He knows what he is looking for and has a good knowlege of the game because of his background. I would take his advice over a Kiper/McShay anyday. But even those guys know their stuff and do extensive background work that you or I cant do on all players. They have WAY more access and time to do analysis than anyone on here- so just because we get one here or there on them- over a whole draft, they will kill us- despite what some on here think.
 

NJRamsFan

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Are you talking about the players themselves as prospects or where they go in the draft?

Cause Lord knows, you can't predict what people like Al Davis and matt millen are gonna do on draft day..and they are by far and few the only "questionable" owners/gm's

Both. Although I agree 100% with your assessment that it is nearly impossible to predict what guys like that are going to do...thats my issue with the term expert. In reality their mocks aren't very good.

To the player analysis all I'm saying is I bet if you go around and put together a comprehensive scouting report/analysis for Watkins/Robinson/Matthews/Clowney just based on ROD posts/debates...it would be eerily similar to what these experts are paid to come up with. And most of our opinions are coming from watching those guys a couple times live and youtube videos...
 

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"He seems confused in zone coverage and consistently gets beat."
That's why I prefer Ha-Ha. Centerfield is what he played in college and so you know what you're getting with him. He might not be the top safety in the draft but he's the top FS in the draft IMO.