The OL is a disaster, but the plan was sound.
- Thread starter AvengerRam
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The one area we never get right is the OL in terms of finding homegrown players in the draft. Whit was from Cincy and Corbett from Cleveland only Big Rob has really panned out.
My assessment is simply Noteboom is not good enough at LT been in the system 3 years and he should have been ready and it appears he's not.
Edwards I have never liked he and Evans suck jmo. Our run game continually suffers because he is a weak LG. Concussion or not.
Allen is good but injury prone - mid level at best.
Shelton was hanging around on various PS' incl ours he was solid so far small sample size.
Big Rob has been very solid minus this year. Not top tier RT but very solid.
The question we should be asking ourselves why was last year so much better was it Whit and Corbett? Or just consistency I don't know but season reminds me of Goff's last year he has no time to throw.
When we lost Saffold we went through growing pains same with Sully and he was ok so as I will always say I trust McVay/Snead to get us through it.
My assessment is simply Noteboom is not good enough at LT been in the system 3 years and he should have been ready and it appears he's not.
Edwards I have never liked he and Evans suck jmo. Our run game continually suffers because he is a weak LG. Concussion or not.
Allen is good but injury prone - mid level at best.
Shelton was hanging around on various PS' incl ours he was solid so far small sample size.
Big Rob has been very solid minus this year. Not top tier RT but very solid.
The question we should be asking ourselves why was last year so much better was it Whit and Corbett? Or just consistency I don't know but season reminds me of Goff's last year he has no time to throw.
When we lost Saffold we went through growing pains same with Sully and he was ok so as I will always say I trust McVay/Snead to get us through it.
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That's a great to put it - TRIAGE these injuries hit is like a ton of bricks.
Me personally I would try out a new lineup this week against Carolina or go the safe route with same line and have a revised gameplan over the bye.
If we are going to try something I go Jackson at LT or LG Boom at either Skura at Center, Obushi at RG and Rob at RT. Keep a back or TE in. NO MORE 5 wide and 11 personel for now. If you do the same thing you are going to get the same results.
Put the fear of God in both RBs because they are missing cut back lanes and better holes.
Screens, draws, end arounds and roll outs until we find what will work.
Lastly and I know this will be unpopular but bench Robinson for Tutu or McCutchen and see what either or both can do maybe nothing but we need a spark and Robinson has been a massive bust on steroids so far and I loved the acquisition I thought the Kupp, Van and Robinson trio would be the most lethal trio in the league.
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It's amazing what a stud Kupp is when you know he's being double teamed on many plays. His TD against Dallas was a great catch and Diggs didn't have enough to catch Super Cooper once he got past Diggs. Kupp is sneaky fast.
If the cowboys beat philly this week, they, along with the 9ers and bucs will be in first place. They all have had injuries on their OLs.
Comparatively, the Rams secondary has also suffered its share of injuries. Many DBs have see the field who were not opening day starters, including 2 rookies, Haley (who wasn’t even on the roster for the first game) and Burgess (who has been on the bench since his rookie season).
The secondary has held its own.
The Rams have had far more success drafting mid to late round players and signing UDFAs for the secondary than they have had finding comparable talent for the OL.
Maybe it’s time the Rams went about continuing to build the OL the way they did when McVay first arrived: find proven talent (Whitworth, Sullivan, and Blythe). It has worked at other positions, obviously.
As for the aforementioned teams that are winning despite banged up lines and struggling to score, they’re not turning the ball over either. The Rams spotted the cowboys 9 points before the defense was allowed to make a difference. The Rams gave up a pick six to ice the 9er game, and a fumble at the goal line kept the falcon game closer than it should have been. Those were not on the OL.
Comparatively, the Rams secondary has also suffered its share of injuries. Many DBs have see the field who were not opening day starters, including 2 rookies, Haley (who wasn’t even on the roster for the first game) and Burgess (who has been on the bench since his rookie season).
The secondary has held its own.
The Rams have had far more success drafting mid to late round players and signing UDFAs for the secondary than they have had finding comparable talent for the OL.
Maybe it’s time the Rams went about continuing to build the OL the way they did when McVay first arrived: find proven talent (Whitworth, Sullivan, and Blythe). It has worked at other positions, obviously.
As for the aforementioned teams that are winning despite banged up lines and struggling to score, they’re not turning the ball over either. The Rams spotted the cowboys 9 points before the defense was allowed to make a difference. The Rams gave up a pick six to ice the 9er game, and a fumble at the goal line kept the falcon game closer than it should have been. Those were not on the OL.
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The Rams had a "plan". The plan though didn't prioritize building the Oline into a top notch Oline.
Compare what the Chiefs did to what we did. The Chiefs and Rams are two perennial top offenses that both have seen major struggles when their Olines deteriorated.
The Rams saw injuries in 2019-20 and players leaving (Saffold, Sullivan, and this year Whit and Corbs).
Everyone saw what happened to the Chiefs in the Super Bowl vs the Bucs when Mahomes could do nothing behind a patchwork line.
But look what the Chiefs did, drafted the top center Humphries while we passed on him. Signed big time Pro Bowl level players in Thuney and Brown and let WR Hill walk. That shows you they understand the priority of the Oline.
The Rams let Corbs walk, filled Whitworths spot with an inferior career backup in Noteboom, chose to count on Allen and pass on Humphries and spend their free agency money on a bust WR and an over the hill LB.
The problem wasn't having a plan but not prioritizing the Oline properly.
Even if our Oline was healthy it's still a mediocre at best Oline.
Compare what the Chiefs did to what we did. The Chiefs and Rams are two perennial top offenses that both have seen major struggles when their Olines deteriorated.
The Rams saw injuries in 2019-20 and players leaving (Saffold, Sullivan, and this year Whit and Corbs).
Everyone saw what happened to the Chiefs in the Super Bowl vs the Bucs when Mahomes could do nothing behind a patchwork line.
But look what the Chiefs did, drafted the top center Humphries while we passed on him. Signed big time Pro Bowl level players in Thuney and Brown and let WR Hill walk. That shows you they understand the priority of the Oline.
The Rams let Corbs walk, filled Whitworths spot with an inferior career backup in Noteboom, chose to count on Allen and pass on Humphries and spend their free agency money on a bust WR and an over the hill LB.
The problem wasn't having a plan but not prioritizing the Oline properly.
Even if our Oline was healthy it's still a mediocre at best Oline.
Whitworth, Sullivan were signed to be starters.
Blythe was a waiver pickup.
Sullivan cost nothing and wasn’t their first choice because of his injury history (although I’m assured on here that that was the wrong move because he was surely going to be injured again).
The Rams paid Allen.. he graded out very well last year and knows his shit.
They paid Noteboom well.. I guess they could’ve gone after Armstead… I think that would’ve been money better spent than Wagner or Robinson.
Other than that.. the left tackle.. their Oline build doesn’t look much different than it has.
Just got a shit ton of injuries.
They did that before last year.
Who won the Super Bowl last year?
I get your point.. but every roster build requires choices.. and every team makes mistakes.
But they’ve done some brilliant things, overall. Trading Hill for what they got was genius.
If Humphrey, Thuney and Smith.. and their backups all got hurt.. how would that line look?
You realize Noteboom is grading out better than Brown?
I don’t know that the Rams Oline would’ve been good this year.. tough to say.
Injuries are the biggest issue, though. Period.
Yeah, when you’re down to 3rd stringers in your contingencies… you’ve reached the point you have fingers crossed you can get by.
That is eye opening. They are all starters this year.There was belief it would be better than mediocre, but that included a whole lot of projecting on how it would come together. To your point, even the most optimistic view had doubts about our ability to run the ball with the initial 5.
Plenty of time to figure it out. But we can’t keep losing chess pieces.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #90
In Kansas City, fans have probably been complaining that the team has failed to prioritize the defense over the past few years.
By definition, you can’t prioritize everything (particularly when resources are finite).
I am fine with what they have done in the 7th round for the most part but I am not fine with what they have done in the first 5 rounds
They need to make sure they draft at least one OL in the top 5 rounds especially when they lose starters that year.
And I keep reiterating if they had gone just one OL on the 3 draft picks I have pointed out, then we would be in much better shape especially at center if they had done just one of the following top 2.
Biadesz over Hopkins
Humphrey over Tutu
Any OL over Earnest Brown
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And let me tell you - I was screaming at the TV on the first 2 to take those players. Either one and we would probably not have Evans anywhere close to being on the team and Kolone would still be on the practice squad.
Even if we were down to our 3rd string center (Shelton), we would still be in a ton better shape.
Kolone is not good at all at making the line calls.
I think the board was crystal clear that not drafting Creed was a WTF moment at the time.
The board then split between those who understand the intricacies of OL play and those who only know about it tangentially (like myself).
The former camp then began deep speculation into how the lack of investment could work out if everything turns out well. "Trust the coaches". "There's a chance because of xyz."
The latter camp, myself included, just went into meltdown mode because the writing on the wall was evident due to the lack of investment (i.e., common fucking sense). This frustration was crystalized into a common reframe - "we should have drafted Creed". This became a catch-all phrase for "we are fucked", and the casual deferred to the optimism of the experts because of "hopium".
So, I think your argument that the board didn't see this coming is wildly misplaced. Even the most optimistic qualified their optimism, repeatedly.
And I'll even take all of this one step further by saying that the issue is that McSnead are reading their own press clippings and are greatly affected by their ego (i.e., not cutting underperforming draft picks, not resigning players they didn't draft, thinking they have a hallo effect on player development...).
It is what it is. I just hope Stafford, the warrior that he is, doesn't get seriously injured. Sadly, that too looks likely.
P.S. If I really cared I could show you past posts where I rallied firmly against relying on Brian Allen or resigned Brian Allen - independent of the Creed issue.
Based on a quick search of his games started, no. I didn't like him as a player because he's too small to anchor an NFL line IMO.
Kinda what I was saying re Whitworth, et al. They don’t have to be studs or even starters. They have to be reliable. Blythe was not a long term answer as a starter but was as good as it gets for an interior swing man.
As for Noteboom, the Rams absolutely did the right thing. Whether he works out or not, he was groomed for this moment. That has been known since the day he was drafted.
Going 3 deep into your depth is a frightening proposition to be sure, but the Rams have fared better at WR, TE, CB, and Safety when that scenario occurred. As for the OL, I’m not sure if this will turn around fast enough with the current personnel.
… but I was a big Anchrum fan and maybe this whole things plays out differently if he doesn’t get hurt and both he and Jackson get on the field together. Hmm
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #97
Wow, that’s quite a straw man.
Again, NOBODY saw THIS DEGREE of a problem coming.
Merely saying that you thought the Rams should be investigating more on the OL does not equate to that level of foresight.
And, for the record, I say that as someone who had Creed Humphrey at the top of my 2021 draft board, and listed this year’s OL as a major question mark going into the season. Despite that, I did not see this level of a problem coming.
nighttrain
Legend
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #99
Here are some numbers showing the degree of the problem (2022 #s projected over 17 game season):
Sacks
2021: 30
2022: 71.4
Hits
2021: 42
2022: 71.4
Pressures
2021: 104
2022: 183.6
Pressure rate
2021: 16.3%
2022: 25.0%
Yards/Carry
2021: 4.0
2022: 3.2
Yards before contact/Carry
2021: 2.3
2022: 1.8
Sacks
2021: 30
2022: 71.4
Hits
2021: 42
2022: 71.4
Pressures
2021: 104
2022: 183.6
Pressure rate
2021: 16.3%
2022: 25.0%
Yards/Carry
2021: 4.0
2022: 3.2
Yards before contact/Carry
2021: 2.3
2022: 1.8
Yeah, no one could have predicted the injury bug hitting the position group the way it has. But, the OL was a weakness, suffering from lack of investment, and a lot of us saw that as a red flag.