Rams WR situation

[EasyE]

What's Duke Williams up to?

well played!

 

[1maGoh]

I tend not to speculate on motives. I especially hope the team doesn't.

I suppose it's the time to do that, but it's not me. I do what I do based on actions and provable intentions.

But we'll see. I expect him to play this year...somewhere. And we'll see.

I can agree with that, in personal life. And I'm certainly not going to hold my personal, non-professional speculation against him. However, I think when you're talking business, you're in the business of making predictions of the future. And every piece of knowledge is valuable when you're predicting the future. Especially if you're trying to predict if someone will let you down.

All that being said, I totally understand not wanting to speculate on motives when you can't know the answer, or even have a good idea about it. None of us, I think, know Gordon and it's unfair to judge him based on guessing.

 

[dieterbrock]

It's incredibly fair to speculate. In fact, it's only fair to speculate. If a team is going to base money, reputation and wins on him, they have to speculate on everything. As fans, we are discussing on what the team might do. Therefore, it is very reasonable to speculate on why he volunteered for rehab.

Of course.
He's been suspended how many times for the same thing?
You are 100% on the money

 

[Mackeyser]

I can agree with that, in personal life. And I'm certainly not going to hold my personal, non-professional speculation against him. However, I think when you're talking business, you're in the business of making predictions of the future. And every piece of knowledge is valuable when you're predicting the future. Especially if you're trying to predict if someone will let you down.

All that being said, I totally understand not wanting to speculate on motives when you can't know the answer, or even have a good idea about it. None of us, I think, know Gordon and it's unfair to judge him based on guessing.

So true.

And in all my "pounding the table", I've always said that the Rams FO shouldn't sign him without getting him in the building unless it's as a waiver claim because it's important that they not only don't speculate, but that they have an affirmative commitment from him based on both actions and intention that he's ready to be committed to football AND that the Rams coaching staff is fully on board.

I'm not saying it would be easy, but for THAT MUCH PRODUCTION??? If he were to work out, he'd be Goff's best friend...

 

[1maGoh]

So true.

And in all my "pounding the table", I've always said that the Rams FO shouldn't sign him without getting him in the building unless it's as a waiver claim because it's important that they not only don't speculate, but that they have an affirmative commitment from him based on both actions and intention that he's ready to be committed to football AND that the Rams coaching staff is fully on board.

I'm not saying it would be easy, but for THAT MUCH PRODUCTION??? If he were to work out, he'd be Goff's best friend...

Now THAT'S something I can get behind. I almost gave you the thread winner, but I refrained because everyone can't get a trophy. You're awesome though.

 

[dolphinlover123]

We don't know why he checked himself in and it's unfair to speculate. He may have simply realized that while he was physically capable of playing, he didn't have enough control to not fail again in sobriety and he didn't want to blow his career coming back when he wasn't ready.

Either way, he got the intensive help he needed.

And there's NO QUESTION in my mind that in this offense, he would be a BEAST. The only issue is if he's ready to handle the rigors of playing.

Only he knows ultimately which is why I would want the Rams to have him in the building. If they are good with him especially with how they've altered the roster thus far, I'd be ecstatic.

I disagree. As an outsider, I'm making a judgment based on his previous actions the consequences that followed. Credibility is earned, and he hasn't earned it. I feel like it's perfectly fair to have doubt and skepticism in regards to his stability and reliability.

I understand taking a shot at him. But I also think it'd be naive to be very optimistic. And don't take this the wrong way, I'm not saying that you are very optimistic or that you are being naive. You might just be more open-minded about the situation. But there is a risk. I'm just saying why I choose not to be optimistic. All in all, I think we both agree that at a low risk, the team should take a chance on him.

 

[BonifayRam]

Would appear to me that the Rams are well endowed with youthful good looking slot receiver prospects.No concerns from me. McVay only needs 2.

Bradley Marquez 24-3
Pharoh Cooper 22-2
Nelson Spruce 22-R

The TE/HB/FB receivers are very young with not much known about them from last years work by the two drafted rookies. 4th rd pick Higbee played injured most of his rookie season. 6th rd pick Hemingway does not run anything like a TE but a very fast smooth tall lean wide out with wide out hands. Bryce ...nothing is known outside his college work about Brice Williams other than he is a large good sized TE..All very young but no real concerns when you include Cory Harkey who is more FB than pass catcher. McVay has a good amount of players here.
.
Cory Harkey 26-6 (FB/HB)
Tyler Higbee 24-2
Temarrick Hemingway 23-2
Brice Williams 24-R
Zack Laskey 24 R (FB/HB)

The outside wide outs is where I see some concerns. All six are till very young with some speed on a few of them. The addition of Woods sure helps. A solid well seasoned veteran would be the missing element IMO.

Tavon Austin 25-5 (RB/PR/Slot)
Robert Woods 24-5
Mike Thomas 22-2
Paul Mc Roberts 24-2
Marquez North 21-R
Brandon Shippen 22-R

In conclusion McVay has a good amount (14) players here, many unknown untried talents. One would expect our new HC to draft one if he sees one he really likes. IMO McVay/Snead may think he should give these youngsters a good try out before discarded or using priceless valuable draft selections on the second day in this area.

 

[A.J. Hicks]

I think that Gordon deserves to get a shot in the NFL again. I wouldn't mind him on our team. He's not a must have for me but I wouldn't mind seeing him in horns.

If McVay were to sign off on it. I'd be more than happy to take him on.

 

[Mackeyser]

I disagree. As an outsider, I'm making a judgment based on his previous actions the consequences that followed. Credibility is earned, and he hasn't earned it. I feel like it's perfectly fair to have doubt and skepticism in regards to his stability and reliability.

I understand taking a shot at him. But I also think it'd be naive to be very optimistic. And don't take this the wrong way, I'm not saying that you are very optimistic or that you are being naive. You might just be more open-minded about the situation. But there is a risk. I'm just saying why I choose not to be optimistic. All in all, I think we both agree that at a low risk, the team should take a chance on him.

See my above post.

Also, how does one earn trust in his situation? It's a Catch-22. He can't earn trust unless he's on a team, but to get on a team, he has to earn trust.

Part of his signing would be the the FO doing their due diligence AND the coaching staff and Gordon being fully on the same page.

So, I don't think we're in a different place, just looking at a similar place from different perspectives. And that's fine.

 

[dieterbrock]

See my above post.

Also, how does one earn trust in his situation? It's a Catch-22. He can't earn trust unless he's on a team, but to get on a team, he has to earn trust.

Part of his signing would be the the FO doing their due diligence AND the coaching staff and Gordon being fully on the same page.

So, I don't think we're in a different place, just looking at a similar place from different perspectives. And that's fine.

Totally agree. Performance wise, I have no doubt he can return to previous heights of success.
Can he stay clean? No way to know right now no matter who or what says he can. Only thing he can do is prove it. Its certainly fair to doubt he can based on past record. I would love to have him on the team, but wouldn't want them to bypass another WR option on his behalf

 

[dolphinlover123]

See my above post.

Also, how does one earn trust in his situation? It's a Catch-22. He can't earn trust unless he's on a team, but to get on a team, he has to earn trust.

Part of his signing would be the the FO doing their due diligence AND the coaching staff and Gordon being fully on the same page.

So, I don't think we're in a different place, just looking at a similar place from different perspectives. And that's fine.

You earn credibility by doing the right things and not getting caught... He hasn't... He's been suspended multiple times. That's how you lose credibility and what I mean when I say he hasn't "earned" his credibility. And that's why I will be skeptical, and why I think it's fair to doubt whether he's really changed and whether he won't do dumb things again.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Cris Carter saw his life spinning out of control and was able to make a turnaround. Gordon has had many opportunities and has botched each one so far.
I think it's an insult to Carter to be mentioned in this breath. Let Gordon have a 10 year run of sobriety and making a difference with his life then maybe it's appropriate.

Carter properly credits the Minnesota Vikings for helping turn his life around, can't see any reason why some team won't invest in another player with a similar situation. Obviously, Gordon's agent believes in him enough to sacrifice so much to the cause, the next step is for a team to believe in him, ... and one will before all is said and done. The Rams could certainly use what Gordon can offer on the field, taking a personal interest in Gordon could be a very rewarding experience for both parties. The man deserves another opportunity, he's worked very hard at his recovery, if given the chance, I would hope the Rams step up and rise to the occasion. jmo


"Cris Carter: From Addiction to Superstardom in the NFL
Carter was drinking heavily and using cocaine, marijuana and ecstasy on a regular basis at that time, and he failed three drug tests over a three-year period before his coach, Buddy Ryan, finally gave up on him and released him in the summer of 1990.

While the truth about Carter’s struggles with substance abuse had been kept from the public, privately NFL teams knew why the Eagles had suddenly chosen to let him go despite his successes on the field. Nevertheless, in the high-stakes high-pressure world of professional sports, talent always opens doors, and the Minnesota Vikings decided to give Carter another chance and claimed him before the start of the 1990 season.

Determined not to squander his new opportunity in Minnesota, Carter stopped drinking and drugging while dramatically upgrading the intensity of his fitness and workout regimes, using his professional ambitions as a motivating force to help him overcome his substance abuse problems.

Carter told the Minneapolis Star-Tribune about how the Vikings had reached out to him at a point in his life when chemical dependency had cost him his job with the Eagles and threatened to wreck his pro career after just three seasons.

“Man, [the Vikings] invested so much time in me,” said Carter, breaking down. “They got me to see the right people. Man, when I got there, I needed a lot of help. Oh my goodness.”

“It was a lot of hard work, but there were a lot of people helping me, not on the football field, but just getting my life together,” Carter told the Star-Tribune. “They really cared about me. I owe everything to the Vikings. What they invested in me was more than money. What they taught me was how to live the rest of my life. I didn’t have to be a prisoner to the things that held me back before."

 

[dieterbrock]

Carter properly credits the Minnesota Vikings for helping turn his life around, can't see any reason why some team won't invest in another player with a similar situation. Obviously, Gordon's agent believes in him enough to sacrifice so much to the cause, the next step is for a team to believe in him, ... and one will before all is said and done. The Rams could certainly use what Gordon can offer on the field, taking a personal interest in Gordon could be a very rewarding experience for both parties. The man deserves another opportunity, he's worked very hard at his recovery, if given the chance, I would hope the Rams step up and rise to the occasion. jmo


"Cris Carter: From Addiction to Superstardom in the NFL
Carter was drinking heavily and using cocaine, marijuana and ecstasy on a regular basis at that time, and he failed three drug tests over a three-year period before his coach, Buddy Ryan, finally gave up on him and released him in the summer of 1990.

While the truth about Carter’s struggles with substance abuse had been kept from the public, privately NFL teams knew why the Eagles had suddenly chosen to let him go despite his successes on the field. Nevertheless, in the high-stakes high-pressure world of professional sports, talent always opens doors, and the Minnesota Vikings decided to give Carter another chance and claimed him before the start of the 1990 season.

Determined not to squander his new opportunity in Minnesota, Carter stopped drinking and drugging while dramatically upgrading the intensity of his fitness and workout regimes, using his professional ambitions as a motivating force to help him overcome his substance abuse problems.

Carter told the Minneapolis Star-Tribune about how the Vikings had reached out to him at a point in his life when chemical dependency had cost him his job with the Eagles and threatened to wreck his pro career after just three seasons.

“Man, [the Vikings] invested so much time in me,” said Carter, breaking down. “They got me to see the right people. Man, when I got there, I needed a lot of help. Oh my goodness.”

“It was a lot of hard work, but there were a lot of people helping me, not on the football field, but just getting my life together,” Carter told the Star-Tribune. “They really cared about me. I owe everything to the Vikings. What they invested in me was more than money. What they taught me was how to live the rest of my life. I didn’t have to be a prisoner to the things that held me back before."

When Philly cut him, it was his wake up call
Gordon has been suspended numerous times by multiple teams and has yet to answer the bell for his wake up call
Carter played in a more flexible system, but had he been suspended the first time we can only speculate how it would have turned out

 

[dolphinlover123]

See my above post.

Also, how does one earn trust in his situation? It's a Catch-22. He can't earn trust unless he's on a team, but to get on a team, he has to earn trust.

Part of his signing would be the the FO doing their due diligence AND the coaching staff and Gordon being fully on the same page.

So, I don't think we're in a different place, just looking at a similar place from different perspectives. And that's fine.

Just adding on to my thought.

Your above post talks about doing due diligence, which is unrelated from what I was originally talking about, but anyway.. I'm actually curious. How would you even do due diligence? You don't think Gordon told people that he's changed after the time he got kicked off a team and after each time he got suspended? I know his reasons for getting suspended are pretty stupid. But that's the NFL and he should still be accountable.

The Browns FO are the closest to Gordon right now and if they do let him go, that means that they have moved on. That could mean that the HC doesn't trust him and that the FO management doesn't trust him. I'm sure they have done their due diligence? whatever that may be.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Gordon has been suspended numerous times by multiple teams and has yet to answer the bell for his wake up call

What multiple teams ? He's still working on his rookie contract with Cleveland.

 

[dieterbrock]

What multiple teams ? He's still working on his rookie contract with Cleveland.

Baylor

 

[Mackeyser]

Just adding on to my thought.

Your above post talks about doing due diligence, which is unrelated from what I was originally talking about, but anyway.. I'm actually curious. How would you even do due diligence? You don't think Gordon told people that he's changed after the time he got kicked off a team and after each time he got suspended? I know his reasons for getting suspended are pretty stupid. But that's the NFL and he should still be accountable.

The Browns FO are the closest to Gordon right now and if they do let him go, that means that they have moved on. That could mean that the HC doesn't trust him and that the FO management doesn't trust him. I'm sure they have done their due diligence? whatever that may be.

For a start, the team could ask to speak to his counselors. While not violating HIPPA laws, they counselors with permission could talk about their belief about whether a) Josh Gordon is taking his sobriety seriously and b) if football will help or harm his sobriety.

Next, they can examine how he's been spending his time. When Josh Gordon got popped the last time, it was based on a misunderstanding in a couple of ways. He got caught during off-season testing for alcohol and he had I think 1-2 beers with teammates. Now whether it's reasonable to NOT know that the testing extended to the off-season, I have no idea. Not being in the NFL, I don't know of there are some protocols that are only in season. I know for the general NFL, the randomized testing is only in-season, so that may have been the source of the misunderstanding.

What's important to know is that he didn't drink or use any banned substances during that season.

Now that he's on a zero tolerance for anything leash, it would be important to ascertain via personal interview and talking with his agent and counselors or anyone else who might be able to shed light on this, would be does Josh Gordon understand that not only can't he have even casual contact with alcohol, he can't even have certain mouthwashes and cold medicines.

If Josh Gordon realizes and can embrace zero tolerance, has embraced his sobriety and his support network believes (not Josh, but those entrusted to help him get and stay clean) that he can commit to football and not have that endanger his sobriety, then yeah, I think that's would be enough to get him into the building.

That would be STEP ONE.

Then he'd have to meet with the coaching staff and make sure they're on the same page.

Lastly, the coaching staff and FO would have to be on the same page regarding IF they want him and if so, what the team feels comfortable in doing to ensure his sobriety. Some teams don't want to do much and others will really go out of there way.

I'm not going to criticize (at this point) if the Rams aren't comfortable doing much. That's their call. But that would be a factor in whether the team would be a fit, I think.

Lastly, no, absolutely not, I don't think Cleveland is remotely willing to deal with him in any capacity. In that respect, Gordon is very similar to Carter. Both did well on the field, but unlike in the days of secrecy, Gordon plays today with social media. Carter was able to hide most of his issues, enough so that his release was a surprise to many, many fans. Carter would have been a totally different story in 2016. But I think like Philly was done with Carter, so Cleveland is done with Gordon. It's just a relationship that can't be repaired and Carter went on to be a HoFer and Gordon easily has that level of talent.

If the Rams can do for Gordon what the Vikings did for Carter, then we'll not only gain a HoF receiver, but it continues to build the brand among players not that they can screw up, but they will support talent if it's warranted. Yes, Josh Gordon has blown chances. But he's still young enough to learn from his mistakes and be productive if he's committed to doing that.

 

[HeiseNBerg]

I saw nothing from Mike Thomas that made me go "Wow!" last year. That being said, hopefully that will seriously change this season.

Well...THIS play made me go "wow" (and not in a good way):