Rams should trade Mannion, not Foles

[Mackeyser]

I initially started out funnin' in the other thread with a "what if Mannion outplayed everyone and had this great season...blah, blah, blah".

And it got me to thinking.

Firstly, that's not going to happen. Logistically, it's just...impossible. Not improbable...impossible.

He may be our best QB...this year. But we won't have any chance to know that because he's not going to get the slightest chance. That's just the simple math of it.

I mean, if anyone honestly thinks it's going to be a straight up even steven, "everyone competes" type deal... well, how do I bet on that? Cuz, no. The Rams invested (or will in 3 days) HEAVILY in Goff and they're going to continue to invest heavily to ensure a solid return on that investment.

It actually would make everyone look like jackasses if Mannion blew up and earned the job. The incentive here is for Goff to win and if they have to put a thumb on the scale, so be it.

It actually begs the question... doesn't it make more sense to trade Mannion than Foles? They need 3 QBs and they're not going to develop two QBs (I'm still trying to wrap my head around Fisher developing one) and they just don't have the reps.

With keeping Keenum as the bridge QB starter and getting Goff up to speed or having the Rookie Goff start and keeping Keenum ready as the backup, there's just no reps left. Foles makes sense for a "just in case" guy and it's unlikely he's got huge value certainly not in this draft. His value will likely be a conditional low round pick in 2017 to be had after the draft.

With Mannion, on whom the Rams aren't going to devote any resources anyway, they have the chance to actually recoup some draft capital and use it now. Far more than anything the Rams are likely to get for Foles.

All in means all in. I think it's funny to think of Mannion earning the job as a goof, but in reality, they messed up any chance to see what they had in him with the total mismanagement of the Davis/Keenum backup situation and now that they're going all in with Goff, they have no room for him.

They should trade him now and give Goff every possible tool and chance to succeed.

 

[Akrasian]

Keenum is a free agent after this year. Foles would have to be paid over $12 million next season if he's kept. Mannion has a salary of $730k in 2017 and $877k in 2018.

Basically, keeping Foles as the backup for 2017 costs the Rams two very good players they won't be able to afford. Foles is likely gone by some point in training camp, unless the Rams get a good offer for Keenum.

If the offers are there, I could even see both Keenum and Foles gone - if the Rams like Mannion, and if they draft a 2nd QB this year - say if Prescott fell to them for instance late enough that he is a bargain.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Couple of thoughts Mac,
Sounds kinda like the RGIII/Cousins scenario.....it can happen.

Injuries could be the catalyst....

 

[Gandalf]

You kinda said it yourself, what if Mannion blew up? He would then be worth quite a bit. Mannion is very cheap and could develop. Keenum will be a free agent and Foles is expensive.
Unless you can get a 2nd or third this year, Mannion is the keeper.

 

[Dodgersrf]

Mannion playing very well, would be a nice problem to have.
I certainly wouldn't be upset.

If Mannion is ready to start before Goff, then let him play.
I just want to win.

 

[IowaRam]

I initially started out funnin' in the other thread with a "what if Mannion outplayed everyone and had this great season...blah, blah, blah".

And it got me to thinking.

Firstly, that's not going to happen. Logistically, it's just...impossible. Not improbable...impossible.

He may be our best QB...this year. But we won't have any chance to know that because he's not going to get the slightest chance. That's just the simple math of it.

I mean, if anyone honestly thinks it's going to be a straight up even steven, "everyone competes" type deal... well, how do I bet on that? Cuz, no. The Rams invested (or will in 3 days) HEAVILY in Goff and they're going to continue to invest heavily to ensure a solid return on that investment.

It actually would make everyone look like jackasses if Mannion blew up and earned the job. The incentive here is for Goff to win and if they have to put a thumb on the scale, so be it.

It actually begs the question... doesn't it make more sense to trade Mannion than Foles? They need 3 QBs and they're not going to develop two QBs (I'm still trying to wrap my head around Fisher developing one) and they just don't have the reps.

With keeping Keenum as the bridge QB starter and getting Goff up to speed or having the Rookie Goff start and keeping Keenum ready as the backup, there's just no reps left. Foles makes sense for a "just in case" guy and it's unlikely he's got huge value certainly not in this draft. His value will likely be a conditional low round pick in 2017 to be had after the draft.

With Mannion, on whom the Rams aren't going to devote any resources anyway, they have the chance to actually recoup some draft capital and use it now. Far more than anything the Rams are likely to get for Foles.

All in means all in. I think it's funny to think of Mannion earning the job as a goof, but in reality, they messed up any chance to see what they had in him with the total mismanagement of the Davis/Keenum backup situation and now that they're going all in with Goff, they have no room for him.

They should trade him now and give Goff every possible tool and chance to succeed.

 

[den-the-coach]

Rams have already given up on Foles did not even include him coming to Los Angeles, he's out and they must feel Mannion's upside is better and they did draft Mannion and regardless on how people feel personally about him, they are not going to give up on him just yet unless they are blow away by a trade...Foles is a goner.

And again @Mackeyser who's going to trade for Mannion? Not sure there is a market for him at this point,

 

[fancents86]

If somehow Mannion outperforms everyone in camp and we still start whoever we draft, consider me pissed. Not really even be of their stubbornness, but bc if Mannion had actually had reps last season we wouldn't have just given up six picks to aquire someone we didn't even need.

 

[jrry32]

Who is going to trade for Mannion at this point? Plus, he has more value to us than Foles does.

 

[PhxRam]

Do you think he is going to get you a 3rd back because I dont.

How much trade value does a guy have that gets very little practice snaps and has hardly any game tape?

 

[Mackeyser]

Keenum is a free agent after this year. Foles would have to be paid over $12 million next season if he's kept. Mannion has a salary of $730k in 2017 and $877k in 2018.

Basically, keeping Foles as the backup for 2017 costs the Rams two very good players they won't be able to afford. Foles is likely gone by some point in training camp, unless the Rams get a good offer for Keenum.

If the offers are there, I could even see both Keenum and Foles gone - if the Rams like Mannion, and if they draft a 2nd QB this year - say if Prescott fell to them for instance late enough that he is a bargain.

Well... yeah... but that would require getting Mannion reps. That happens if they deal Keenum, but if not?

I can see them trading Foles and Mannion before I can see them trading Foles and Keenum. They don't know what they have in Mannion and have put nothing into him. And I dunno when Foles' money becomes guaranteed. I was only talking about Foles being the #3 for 2016. That's it.

And, we as fans can say "it's a great problem to have", but NO GM wants to go through the RG3 thing... where you trade away a bunch of picks only to have the backup you picked up end up being the franchise guy, especially because they could have had an idea if they hadn't farted around with the "who's the backup" situation and just picked Keenum who they essentially picked by giving Keenum the lion's share of the reps, anyway.

 

[VegasRam]

You're just messin' with us right, Mack?
I mean, you don't really believe what you're saying, right?
How do YOU know what they have or haven't done in developing Mannion.
How do YOU know Mannion won't get the backup reps?

How do you KNOW?
You start out with a purely speculative (and questionable), premise in the first sentence, and then go on and on on what is certain to happen, based on an opinion.

You're better than that.

 

[Mackeyser]

Who is going to trade for Mannion at this point? Plus, he has more value to us than Foles does.

I read something from Denver that was comparing Mannion to Osweiler prior to him getting traded. I was more than taken aback because I hadn't really thought of him in that light (or thought of other teams considering him).

I disagree about Foles' value. The 3rd QB doesn't have that much value. There are plenty of teams that only HAVE 2 and I'm only talking about 2016.

Trading Mannion means trading essentially a rookie, but he's also an NFL player with a year in the pros. And he's played under Fisher and one thing Fisher is very good about is getting young players acclimated to being in the NFL. So a team that wants to develop a QB that may have missed on the chance last year and sees this class doesn't have the same depth may rather spend a year on a player who has already successfully spent a year in the NFL and working in their craft even without getting reps versus a total projection. At least with Mannion, there's a little bit of preseason footage.

Who would take him?

Denver. They're tight on the cap and the dropoff in this QB class is pretty stark. If they can't get Lynch or Cook to develop, what are their long term options? Mark Sanchez? Trevor Siemiens? Mannion is the kind of heady, coaches kid QB that is an Elway kind of QB.

And we're just not using him. We're not even developing him to be a backup. Just having him on the roster isn't enough.

 

[Mackeyser]

You're just messin' with us right, Mack?
I mean, you don't really believe what you're saying, right?
How do YOU know what they have or haven't done in developing Mannion.
How do YOU know Mannion won't get the backup reps?

How do you KNOW?
You start out with a purely speculative (and questionable), premise in the first sentence, and then go on and on on what is certain to happen, based on an opinion.

You're better than that.

How do I KNOW? Well, I can read. Mannion had very few reps in preseason because Fisher spent so much time dithering about the backup situation. It could be argued that that is why we saw no Sean Mannion during the season, even after the losing streak...because it would have been like starting a rookie.

And if he got very few reps in practice (fact, it was reported in numerous camp reports throughout camp) and almost no time in preseason (fact, we watched the games) and no snaps in games (fact, we watched the games)... other than classroom time, what development could possibly be happening with Mannion?

 

[jrry32]

I read something from Denver that was comparing Mannion to Osweiler prior to him getting traded. I was more than taken aback because I hadn't really thought of him in that light (or thought of other teams considering him).

I disagree about Foles' value. The 3rd QB doesn't have that much value. There are plenty of teams that only HAVE 2 and I'm only talking about 2016.

Trading Mannion means trading essentially a rookie, but he's also an NFL player with a year in the pros. And he's played under Fisher and one thing Fisher is very good about is getting young players acclimated to being in the NFL. So a team that wants to develop a QB that may have missed on the chance last year and sees this class doesn't have the same depth may rather spend a year on a player who has already successfully spent a year in the NFL and working in their craft even without getting reps versus a total projection. At least with Mannion, there's a little bit of preseason footage.

Who would take him?

Denver. They're tight on the cap and the dropoff in this QB class is pretty stark. If they can't get Lynch or Cook to develop, what are their long term options? Mark Sanchez? Trevor Siemiens? Mannion is the kind of heady, coaches kid QB that is an Elway kind of QB.

And we're just not using him. We're not even developing him to be a backup. Just having him on the roster isn't enough.

Except this year's QB class has far better depth and talent than last year's.

But yea, maybe Denver will sniff around. My issue is that I don't see us getting 3rd round value for Mannion. In that case, we might as hell try to feature him a bit in the preseason and boost his value.(obviously, feature him after our rookie QB gets his reps)

At this point, Foles is a known commodity. Good enough to get traded but doesn't have much potential for us to exploit. Mannion still has potential. So I wouldn't deal him unless Denver offered 3rd round value.(or maybe 4th round value)

 

[Akrasian]

And if he got very few reps in practice (fact, it was reported in numerous camp reports throughout camp) and almost no time in preseason (fact, we watched the games) and no snaps in games (fact, we watched the games)... other than classroom time, what development could possibly be happening with Mannion?

Well, he did play in one game. And took some reps in practice, though not a ton of course. And yes, classroom time and other time with coaches.

It's not as much development as would have been ideal, of course. But it's just not the case that he's had zero development opportunities. He should be ahead of where he was when he was drafted. Probably not enough to hand him the #2 job, but something at least.

 

[dieterbrock]

Thursday can't get here fast enough.

 

[blackbart]

Clearly a case of too much time before the draft equals every crazy scenario we can think of. Mannion has no trade value and is way more valuable to the Rams than any other organization. Keenum could be the best trade piece the Rams have available Foles sucked so bad last year we'd be lucky to get someone to take him as a throw in piece. The Broncos were supposedly interested in Keenum before the 1st round tender and they still don't have a solid option at QB. They may not want him but maybe the Jets do?

 

[Mackeyser]

yeah, 3rd or 4th. And I disagree about this year's depth.

As for practice reps, during the season, the 2nd string QB has to struggle to get reps running the scout team. The 3rd string QB gets...none. As in, he has to fight just to touch the ball. So not kidding. There's just not enough time. Again, a lot of teams only have 2 QBs and it's not like they need a "camp arm" for weekly practice". Even in those instances where a starter is limping along, the #2 can take all the reps. Don't need a #3.

My point on Mannion's value this year is that ESPECIALLY with all of the time, resources, reps and attention that the Rams are going to by necessity have to focus on Goff, there will be even that much less for development of another QB who got jobbed last year because Fisher F'd up the backup QB situation and, thus, leaving the team without a clear idea of the prospects of the player they drafted.

However, one of Fisher's strongest suits is getting young players acclimated to NFL life, being solid pros, getting right by the NFL. He does that well and is acknowledged for doing that around the league.

So a "Fisher rookie" is actually a GOOD thing because someone getting a rookie, even with no development is STILL getting a player who doesn't have to have their hand held about being in the NFL. That's huge. You're getting a Pro and you can focus on football. The football is still somewhat unknown like a rookie, but the professionalism isn't.

Ordinarily, that's a nice deal, but at the QB position, that's even better. That's why you get the 3rd back. Call it "housebreaking", if you wanna be crude. I dunno. But as we've seen with guys from Manziel and countless others, the non-football stuff matters.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

smh