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rams24/7

Pro Bowler
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Nick
After our Rammies being officially eliminated from playoff contention on Sunday, many have transitioned into offseason talk (and some started before Sunday). I still think we can learn a lot from these last 3 games about all of our players vets or rookies, big contracts or small contracts.

I've seen a lot of people reacting very emotionally to some things they see from players on the field. Some of it I agree with some I don't.

These are the names I've seen mentioned the most by the media & fanbase this year. Imo most fans go one way or the other on these people. Here's my take:

-Sam (Keep. His salary may be a bit high, which is why I say restructure/resign by lowering his salary next year and creating a more incentive laden deal with less guarantees. Financially the high ankle sprain & ACL may help in the deal.)
-Tim Walton (Fire. I agree with many that not only does Walton's scheme not fit our physical personnel, but it is imo one of the reasons we aren't sacking the QB more. Too many easy completions with predictable blitzes.)
-Schotty (Keep. I'm willing to give him a pass w/o Sam. I do like some of his plays, like the ones for Tavon. But like many, I feel he could be MORE creative & less predictable.)
-Coach Fisher (Not in trouble, but I will really judge him off of the firings/cuts this offseason or lack thereof. He needs to put his ego/loyalty aside and admit to some coaching and player mistakes he's made.)
-Cortland Finnegan (Cut. Even if he were to come back at full health, which is far from a guarantee, he's making WAY to much money to play strictly nickelback. I say we eat the dead money, and let him walk. Plus the cap usually grows $1-$2M a year which helps.)
-Kendall Langford (Keep. I'm in the minority here, but I do want him back. Liked him last year & has been even better this year. I'd agree we need a massive run stuffer, but don't knock Kendall because that's not his mo. He is great at shooting gaps by twisting his body & has underrated pass rush ability. Solid starter, not a HUGE salary.)
-Jared Cook (Not a keep/cut scenario, more that he's fallen below people's expectations. I think having Sam back will help, as well as development of young offensive weapons, & an improved OL. Several times this year he's been open down the seam but QB has no time. I agree he's overpaid and needs to work on consistency catching & blocking, but it's only year 1. I'm still optimistic.)
-Chris Givens (Not bad for a 4th rd pick, many forget that. If you want to gripe, gripe about our 2nd rd picks of 2012. CG has been stuck in neutral this year. His hands need improvement, but he's still had some solid games for us this year. Imo Chris is one of the WRs that suffered the most from Sam's early exit. With noodle arm at QB he doesn't have many downfield chances and when he does they're usually aren't easy.)
-Brian Quick (I never bought into the Fisher/Snead hype on the kid to be a big physical #1 type WR like many fans have. I was personally underwhelmed by his college tape by his inability to dominate D2 competition and use his size to his advantage. The kid has potential, but that's what people have been hanging their hats on. Lawrence Phillips had potential too. If Quick pans out & blows up, great, just one more weapon. But we can't wait around waiting for him to develop because he may never, which is why I'm voting Mike Evens 2014).
-Darryl Richardson (7th round pick who has been suffering from turf toe since week 1. Don't give up on your boy yet, because I still think he has a future here as a COP back. Imo when playing this year lacked the burst bc of his injury, but also misused. The strength of his game is speed. His most explosive plays in 2012 were outside runs: sweeps, streches, tosses, etc. Why insist on running him inside, when you know that's not his mo? The few times we did see him on outside runs this year were some his best runs. Stacy/Benny/DRich would be my depth chart in 2014.)
-Isiah Pead (Trade or cut. At this point I don't care if he's "good" on special teams. He's had his chances over 2 years time, and he's fumbled with almost every one of them. From indecisive runs, to fumblitis, to running out kicks 8 yards deep in the endzone, to taunting penalties: I'm just done. Let him find his way on another team, because that's often what happens with guys in his situation. For whatever reason they just can't get it done with the team that drafted them, but they find their way once they realize they have to work to play another down in the NFL again.)
-Janoris Jenkins & Tru Johnson (The outside duo has been getting some heat from fans this year. Imo Walton is more to blame. Do they have their rookie-like moments where they bite on a play action fake or a double move? Sure. But overall I think if they didn't concede catches by playing zone 8 yards off they'd be in a better position to succeed. The scheme is killing the whole D. And personally I believe Jenks gets flagged too much for physical breakups other established DBs can get by with. The kid has crazy closing skills when he sees the ball & the arrow is still pointing up for him. Same for Tru. Next to TMac biggest hitter in the secondary & I wish he pressed more. Imo the help for the secondary needs to come via firing Walton/new scheme, cutting Finn/adding a new young nickelback, & pairing a ballhawking FS with TMac).
-Harvey Dahl (Cut if alternatives are better. C player at this point. Limited agility, struggles in pass pro, still pretty solid in run game. BUT if we can resign Roger or a G through FA/draft I think his non-guaranteed salary is very expendable. I'd like to draft a replacement for Williams at LG, which imo is a bigger need.)
-Scott Wells (Cut. Solid vet center when healthy, but HEALTHY is the key word. Has hit IR back to back years, turns 32, and I think we have much cheaper alternatives in Tim Barnes & Barrett Jones waiting in the wings. I think his contract is only guaranteed last year & this year, which helps.)
-Chris Long (Still love him. Some say he's overrated. Some want 15 sacks a year from him because of his salary. He works as hard as anybody & constantly fights double teams/chips. I saw heat on him after the AZ game this week, went back and watched. He was getting chipped, ball was coming out in 2 sec or less on many throws, there was little push inside, and WRs were wide open. Kinda been the story of the year for him and the D. Everyone is suffering from Walton. Regardless I know people have their Clowney fantasies, but I think Chris deserves the money he makes. Overpaid, I think very few big contract guys actually make their salaries in this league minus AP, Megatron, Brady, Manning.)
-James Laurinaitis (This guy is the model of consistency. May not be as fast as Pwillis or as powerful as some MLBs, but he is one of the smartest football players I know, and he maxes out his physical abilities. His coverage ability gets knocked by some, but imo he's one of the better cover LBs in the NFL. How often do you hear "TD! Laurinaitis on the coverage." Oh and he plays EVERY down. Hate the "let's dump JL & or CLong bc they make too much money." Silly imo.)
-Roger Saffold (Resign at right price. Tissue paper healthwise, but I would love him at guard if he could stay healthy. Plus he can be the swing tackle. Generous salary with little guaranteed money & lots of per game bonuses.)
-Coach Bones (Took heat for the highly penalized ST unit. Imo though penalties are ultimately the HC's problem. Plus the average age on our ST coverage & return units is probably 22-25. So many rookies, but so much potential. That's why we are one of the lowest leaguewide in punt return yardage allowed. Not to mention GZ has been fine & Johnny has eliminated the shanks, added distance/hangtime, and improved punting to sidelines & punts inside the 20. Come to think of it, how many STs TDs have the Rams allowed since Coach Bones took over?)


What do you think??
 

lockdnram21

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disagree about Quick he has gotten a lot better he takes a lot heat because of his draft postion but that wasnt his fault. i read places where people had him going in 2nd or 3rd. if bradford wouldnt have got hurt i really belive he would have broke out by now.
 

Alan

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I'm in favor of keeping the equipment manager and at least one of the others.

I'd like to get a better DT playing next to Chris so that I can make up my mind about him. He certainly isn't chopped liver though I think his play has suffered a little this year but I'm not betting the house on it either.
 

Zaphod

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What do you think??
I agree with a lot of what was written here.

Laurinaitis may not be the biggest or fastest, but he is one of the smartest. I like what you wrote about Chris Long too, it's his effort and leadership by example that makes him so valuable to the team. But it is a bit contradictory to defend Langford's play which absolutely has improved while saying that there is little inside push. I salivate at the idea of seeing both Quinn (who has also seriously improved) and Clowney, but to me it would a while to see that investment fully realized vs. the fast fix of a defensive tackle that can provide push up the middle. All that said, it could be pretty game changing if they picked another athletic linebacker to replace Dunbar should they not sign him. No matter what, the most pressing need for this team is a free safety to pair with ... well I'm not entirely sold on TMac but I am hopeful that he can be a solid strong safety, and I sure would like to see him go for the big hit less and focus on making the tackle. I don't think anyone can argue against letting Finnegan go, but I really think the best thing to do here would be to sign a veteran to compliment the youth they have now. Only problem I have with that is I'm still gun-shy about them signing Finnegan. Still, if they were to trade down they could draft a great safety, corner and tackle. In the end, they almost can't go wrong on defense as they have such a solid core, a couple of well place picks and this defense will break out.

On offense, I agree with cutting Wells. I think they'd be selling low to let Pead walk as it really doesn't hurt to keep him if he fits in on special teams and provides a backup running back. Do you know, I still think they're not giving up on a more diverse offense that next season may put more emphasis on Pead and Richardson than Stacy and Cunningham. Regarding Givens and Quick, I really think they tried to stretch for more than the offensive line could give them with these two, and I'd love to see them go after some middle routes more when Bradford's back. That means more Bailey and less Givens and I'm ok with that. Anyway, like you say replacing Wells and Williams on the O could be huge and no how they go about it, they'll need to draft for help at the o line.
 

Warner4Prez

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I'm in favor of keeping the equipment manager and at least one of the others.

I'd like to get a better DT playing next to Chris so that I can make up my mind about him. He certainly isn't chopped liver though I think his play has suffered a little this year but I'm not betting the house on it either.

Oh heavens, DON'T FIRE THE EQUIPMENT MANAGER! That's even worse than taking down pictures in the team's facility!

I think it'd keep Finnegan for one more year. I know he makes a boatload of money, but nickel is his strong suit and it's not like he won't play enough snaps at that spot to justify it. His play took a nosedive this year, but to me that seems like an aberration more than anything. There will be more youth drafted in the secondary, it would be good to have at least one vet back there to guide the way.
 

Angry Ram

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I agree with a lot of what was written here.

Laurinaitis may not be the biggest or fastest, but he is one of the smartest. I like what you wrote about Chris Long too, it's his effort and leadership by example that makes him so valuable to the team. But it is a bit contradictory to defend Langford's play which absolutely has improved while saying that there is little inside push. I salivate at the idea of seeing both Quinn (who has also seriously improved) and Clowney, but to me it would a while to see that investment fully realized vs. the fast fix of a defensive tackle that can provide push up the middle. All that said, it could be pretty game changing if they picked another athletic linebacker to replace Dunbar should they not sign him. No matter what, the most pressing need for this team is a free safety to pair with ... well I'm not entirely sold on TMac but I am hopeful that he can be a solid strong safety, and I sure would like to see him go for the big hit less and focus on making the tackle. I don't think anyone can argue against letting Finnegan go, but I really think the best thing to do here would be to sign a veteran to compliment the youth they have now. Only problem I have with that is I'm still gun-shy about them signing Finnegan. Still, if they were to trade down they could draft a great safety, corner and tackle. In the end, they almost can't go wrong on defense as they have such a solid core, a couple of well place picks and this defense will break out.

On offense, I agree with cutting Wells. I think they'd be selling low to let Pead walk as it really doesn't hurt to keep him if he fits in on special teams and provides a backup running back. Do you know, I still think they're not giving up on a more diverse offense that next season may put more emphasis on Pead and Richardson than Stacy and Cunningham. Regarding Givens and Quick, I really think they tried to stretch for more than the offensive line could give them with these two, and I'd love to see them go after some middle routes more when Bradford's back. That means more Bailey and less Givens and I'm ok with that. Anyway, like you say replacing Wells and Williams on the O could be huge and no how they go about it, they'll need to draft for help at the o line.

I'm with you on everything, except cutting Scott Wells. I'd like for the team to keep him, if anything for a legit backup to Barrett Jones if he gets the starting C gig. The OL played horrible last week when he wasn't in. I think he's been underrated during his time here.
 

rhinobean

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Bob
Keep Pead! Think he could be THE 3rd down back for the passing game. Like the rest of the assessment.
 

CGI_Ram

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Hell of a good post! I enjoyed the read 24/7.

I agree with all of it, except;

1) I still have faith in Quick. He's still progressing... That's every reason to remain patient.

2) Pead. I'd keep the guy, unless the Rams think he's a head case. I've not seen enough on the field EITHER WAY to cut bait yet.

Good stuff, man!
 

rams24/7

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Nick
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Oh heavens, DON'T FIRE THE EQUIPMENT MANAGER! That's even worse than taking down pictures in the team's facility!

I think it'd keep Finnegan for one more year. I know he makes a boatload of money, but nickel is his strong suit and it's not like he won't play enough snaps at that spot to justify it. His play took a nosedive this year, but to me that seems like an aberration more than anything. There will be more youth drafted in the secondary, it would be good to have at least one vet back there to guide the way.

Sure he'd get snaps, bc the nickelback is basically the 12 starter in today's NFL, but NO NFL team pays a nickelback $9M. And there's no guarantee he returns to early 2012 form. Really he wasn't good this year, even before his injury. How do we improve our team, when we have players like Finn that are under performing eat such large chunks of the cap?

I'm with you on everything, except cutting Scott Wells. I'd like for the team to keep him, if anything for a legit backup to Barrett Jones if he gets the starting C gig. The OL played horrible last week when he wasn't in. I think he's been underrated during his time here.

I like Wells, he's easily our best center, but he's due $5M (non-guaranteed), is 32, and has been on IR both years in STL. Imo there's a drop off with Barnes & Jones, but no so drastic we'd be terrible. And financially the cap we'd save could help us towards signing a FA guard or CB. I think a lot of fans forget, we have basically NO cap room next year with the contracts we have now. Tough decisions will have to be made & I think Wells needs to be one of them.

Hell of a good post! I enjoyed the read 24/7.

I agree with all of it, except;

1) I still have faith in Quick. He's still progressing... That's every reason to remain patient.

2) Pead. I'd keep the guy, unless the Rams think he's a head case. I've not seen enough on the field EITHER WAY to cut bait yet.

Good stuff, man!

1) Never said I've lost all faith in Quick, just not banking on him becoming a dominant force just because of his measurables.

2) The kid has talent, but I'll believe it when I see it. Fool me once shame on Pead, fool me twice shame on me, fool me thrice shame on me, fool me...
 

Zaphod

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I'm with you on everything, except cutting Scott Wells. I'd like for the team to keep him, if anything for a legit backup to Barrett Jones if he gets the starting C gig. The OL played horrible last week when he wasn't in. I think he's been underrated during his time here.
You have a good point there as the center really is the leader of the offensive line. We'll have 3 more games to get a gauge on things and the defenses are all tough. You'd think we have a serious chance against the Buccaneers but I think we'll be throwing the ball a lot more in that game.
 

V3

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I like most of what you have. I'd just add some of the position coaches onto the list. I haven't been impressed with the WR or secondary coaches. The only thing is, I have ZERO faith that Fisher will make the moves. The only coach that has any chance of being let go is Walton. I still have my doubts he'll get rid of him because that would mean admitting he made a mistake hiring him.
 

rams24/7

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
I like most of what you have. I'd just add some of the position coaches onto the list. I haven't been impressed with the WR or secondary coaches. The only thing is, I have ZERO faith that Fisher will make the moves. The only coach that has any chance of being let go is Walton. I still have my doubts he'll get rid of him because that would mean admitting he made a mistake hiring him.

Yep. I've been saying that for a while too. Fisher has to throw out loyalty with some of these coaches and make some hard decisions, even if that means admitting he made a mistake. The better man will admit to mistakes for the better of the team, instead of being stubborn and denying obvious problems
 

F. Mulder

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Yep. I've been saying that for a while too. Fisher has to throw out loyalty with some of these coaches and make some hard decisions, even if that means admitting he made a mistake. The better man will admit to mistakes for the better of the team, instead of being stubborn and denying obvious problems
I agree with this and to the bigger issue Fisher himself needs to admit his individual mistakes and the organization, lead by Snead and Fisher, need to critically develop their existing players and if, how, or whether they will become the players they hoped when they acquired them.
 

Alan

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Warner4Prez remembering it differently:
I think it'd keep Finnegan for one more year. I know he makes a boatload of money, but nickel is his strong suit and it's not like he won't play enough snaps at that spot to justify it. His play took a nosedive this year, but to me that seems like an aberration more than anything. There will be more youth drafted in the secondary, it would be good to have at least one vet back there to guide the way.

rams24/7 responding to Warner4Prez:
Sure he'd get snaps, bc the nickelback is basically the 12 starter in today's NFL, but NO NFL team pays a nickelback $9M. And there's no guarantee he returns to early 2012 form. Really he wasn't good this year, even before his injury. How do we improve our team, when we have players like Finn that are under performing eat such large chunks of the cap?

Not only is he a huge cap hit next year, I also think you disremember last year's performance. I believe that both Finn and Jenkins were rated in the mid 40s by PFF.

Of course I never liked Finn so I'm hardly unbiased. So there's that.
 

blackbart

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Fisher doesn't need to admit anything he is in charge of rebuilding a totally disfunctional organization and has done a good job of throwing out the trash and restock as best he could.

Walton will probably get another year they did not bring him in for a one year contract or with the idea that he would jump right in to this new role and have no problems. They are learning together and will get better with more time. The deficiencies have not all come from him, he is not running the defense without input from other coaches and they are still young and lack some talent.

Schotty will be back and will have more experience with the skill players and working a balanced offense. With Bradford and a decent running game the WRs will have to step up Quick Bailey Austin will be a decent base Pettis is still a good possession guy and Cook and Kendricks are both good receiving TEs.

Bradford was on pace for his best season as a pro, while I am concerned with his healing time and not being able to participate in off season activities he is our QB. They may restructure his contract with an extension after he is farther along in his recovery.

Cut Finnegan I agree and bring in at least 2 CB and maybe a Safety in the draft

Wells and Dahl on the down hill side and injured too often. Time for some youth on the Oline.

It will be an interesting offseason but the Rams organization is on the rise after the worst 5 year period in the NFL this is not a 1 or 2 year rebuild. Patience and consistency are key.
 

BonifayRam

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I think it'd keep Finnegan for one more year. I know he makes a boatload of money, but nickel is his strong suit and it's not like he won't play enough snaps at that spot to justify it. His play took a nosedive this year, but to me that seems like an aberration more than anything. There will be more youth drafted in the secondary, it would be good to have at least one vet back there to guide the way.

The Rams opening 2013 season non starting CB Cortland Finnegan, who has been IR's since week 7 due to a fractured orbital bone, signed mega $$$$ to a five-year, $50 million contract last March. Going back to last season CF ended up on ProFootballFocus' No. 86 corner!. This season CF ended his 2013 season ....wait here it comes .....dead last (110th) in 2013. So the Rams paid out over 15 mil this dismal disastrous season...along with a poor 2012 season so if this season is aberration are the Rams gambling big along with you Warner4Prez for a return to his poor 2012 non aberration? Some serious hope there Warner4Prez I like you around when things go south for us....I have read in several places that savings of close to 7 million can be obtained with the release of Cortland...sounds like a super black Friday savings day to me! Release him !
 

F. Mulder

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Fisher doesn't need to admit anything he is in charge of rebuilding a totally disfunctional organization and has done a good job of throwing out the trash and restock as best he could.

Sorry BB but I disagree with this:

1) For better or worse this is pretty much Fisher and Snead's team. The additions he has since he took over either had his stamp of approval on them or he drove them. Sure there is plenty of youth but there are several young teams that sure appear further along than we do at this point. Fisher is the BOSS. Whatever, Walton, Schotty, Sherman, et al do is based on Fisher's input or approval. What is especially galling is the below average play of the Defense. To me Fisher needs to admit that a passive Defense has not served this team well this year. I mean these are things that relatively non-controversial writers like Thomas and Wagner even site in their reports.

2) Fisher misjudged either the Offensive talent or the Offensive scheme to begin the year. He was willing to run more of a spread/pass to set-up the run Offense and the early results were a disaster until he switched to Stacy and run-first.

3) The pre-season and training camp SEEMED to be too laid back to me. You could see signs during preseason that this team seemed to be lacking execution and emotion. I got the impression they thought when the season began they could turn on a switch and make it happen. Even in the AZ opener you could see issues that continue to plague them now. They start games flat on both sides of the ball. The penalties continue to mount. They just don't seem ready to play. For me that goes on Fisher.

I like Fisher. I like Snead. I like a lot of the players they have brought in. I like their overall football philosophy. However, ANY leader needs to evaluate not only his fellow staff, players, strategy and direction as well as their own performance.

Once again I'm anxious for the offseason (man, it seems like I have felt that way a lot over the past 10 years LOL) but I am also anxious to see what changes Fisher makes regarding all the matters I previously touched on.
 

blackbart

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Sorry BB but I disagree with this:

1) For better or worse this is pretty much Fisher and Snead's team. The additions he has since he took over either had his stamp of approval on them or he drove them. Sure there is plenty of youth but there are several young teams that sure appear further along than we do at this point. Fisher is the BOSS. Whatever, Walton, Schotty, Sherman, et al do is based on Fisher's input or approval. What is especially galling is the below average play of the Defense. To me Fisher needs to admit that a passive Defense has not served this team well this year. I mean these are things that relatively non-controversial writers like Thomas and Wagner even site in their reports.

2) Fisher misjudged either the Offensive talent or the Offensive scheme to begin the year. He was willing to run more of a spread/pass to set-up the run Offense and the early results were a disaster until he switched to Stacy and run-first.

3) The pre-season and training camp SEEMED to be too laid back to me. You could see signs during preseason that this team seemed to be lacking execution and emotion. I got the impression they thought when the season began they could turn on a switch and make it happen. Even in the AZ opener you could see issues that continue to plague them now. They start games flat on both sides of the ball. The penalties continue to mount. They just don't seem ready to play. For me that goes on Fisher.

I like Fisher. I like Snead. I like a lot of the players they have brought in. I like their overall football philosophy. However, ANY leader needs to evaluate not only his fellow staff, players, strategy and direction as well as their own performance.

Once again I'm anxious for the offseason (man, it seems like I have felt that way a lot over the past 10 years LOL) but I am also anxious to see what changes Fisher makes regarding all the matters I previously touched on.

No need to be sorry this board is all about discussing our team, right?

1) I don't understand who you think he needs to admit something to or what effect it would have on anything to enhance the team.

2) I don't disagree with this, they have so many young guys who were trying to learn on the job it was really only working when they went up tempo. I did not understand the hesitancy to use a quicker tempo from the beginning of the game instead of waiting until the 4th quarter or not do it at all.

3) Preseason seems to be a lot different since the last collective bargaining agreement. They don't seem to have enough time in spring activities to install a scheme so it falls to preseason and there is just too much to get done. I have no problem with a slow steady progression building so that the team is peaking at the end of the season.