Not sold on Clowney

[NJRamsFan]

So, I'm understanding you to say that you think Clowney is the best athlete because he outshines the normal range for a DE athletically speaking. Do you think that Robinson has separated himself from the rest of the OT class in a similar fashion? Because I do. Different areas though. Robinson has much more power than Clowney but in other ways Clowney is superior. From just the "best physical talent" standpoint, I think Robinson fits that description just as well.

Having said that, I don't want either of them. I don't trust Clowney and I don't want to only hope Robinson can learn to pass block at a very high level. I want Matthews.

Absolutely, I think the same argument can be made for robinson. He's another guy that, if everything falls into place theres no reason he won't be Orlando Pace. For me, Clowney is just a personal preference

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

True, some people casually smoke and others chronically smoke. I know a lot that do it on some weekends and nobody can tell by there maneurisms. The guys that it is apparent that they smoke just from their speech and demeanor usually smoke often.

 

[Alan]

Elmgrovegnome with his experience:
True, some people casually smoke and others chronically smoke. I know a lot that do it on some weekends and nobody can tell by there maneurisms. The guys that it is apparent that they smoke just from their speech and demeanor usually smoke often.

So to give you a little background on myself, I was a member of a commune in Boulder, CO. 8 women and five guys. We basically just sold drugs and got high all day. I couldn't see doing that for the rest of my life so I joined the Air Force. I also get high every night because of my seizures.

Anyway, I'm telling you all this stuff because I want to point out that I have a lot of personal experience with this stuff. I only partially agree with your descriptions. For example, except when I'm typing on this board, no one can tell when I'm high. I've known guys that would fit your description but they are surprisingly few in number. I think there are more potheads around you than you think.

 

[PhxRam]

If he can be motivated by $ the NFL has plenty.

welcome to the board..

 

[Alan]

Majick360 climbing to the top without an oxygen mask:
If he can be motivated by $ the NFL has plenty.

Welcome to the ROD Majick! :lifting: :seizure: :rockon: :cheers:
It's good to see you jumping right in. I almost missed your post. Good thing Phx was awake. This is the place for intelligent Ram wild ass guesses.

You have to test your ideas in a public forum.
Hillary Clinton

 

[PhxRam]

Welcome to the ROD Majick! :lifting: :seizure: :rockon: :cheers:
It's good to see you jumping right in. I almost missed your post. Good thing Phx was awake. This is the place for intelligent Ram wild ass guesses.

You have to test your ideas in a public forum.
Hillary Clinton

You are slacking.. And to think I was almost convinced to bring you on the staff as the official greeter.

 

[RamzFanz]

I can not deny that the guy has the physical tools and gifts to be a great player. The question is, if he was great why did he not dominate as a college athlete. The players only get bigger, stronger, and faster in the NFL and if you did not dominate all the stats in college why do some believe he will do so in the NFL. This statement may not be 100 percent accurate but from some of the questions about Clowney is that he does not have good work ethic, only can play aggressive and fast has no power or patience, will leave his gap unmanned, and was very rarely doubled team and if he was such a force he should of had bigger numbers when singled up.

So when people refer to The Best Player Available it makes me question why is Clowney the best player available? He maybe the best physical talent but does that make him the best player available? What are your thought?

Clowney out produced Quinn in college. Think about that. When you put him across from Quinn will the opposition be able to double and triple team him every down like his last college season? You say he wasn't doubled where everything I read says he was. I would like to read what you read if you care to share.

He's a freak athlete. I'll root for the freak athlete with Fisher and company coaching them up every time.

 

[Alan]

PhxRam pointing out my deficiencies:
You are slacking.. And to think I was almost convinced to bring you on the staff as the official greeter.

Well obviously I'm not worthy of that great honor.

:coffee:

 

[OnceARam]

So, I'm understanding you to say that you think Clowney is the best athlete because he outshines the normal range for a DE athletically speaking. Do you think that Robinson has separated himself from the rest of the OT class in a similar fashion? Because I do. Different areas though. Robinson has much more power than Clowney but in other ways Clowney is superior. From just the "best physical talent" standpoint, I think Robinson fits that description just as well.

Having said that, I don't want either of them. I don't trust Clowney and I don't want to only hope Robinson can learn to pass block at a very high level. I want Matthews.

I like Matthews as well - after a trade down. I like him because he's plug and play. Great lineage. Great technician. But, but but... he's not an elite athlete or physical freak like Clowney or Robinson are.

So my question is couldn't making the "safe pick" turn around and bite us in the ass because we are ultimately watering down our talent level?

I guess it really comes down to Matthews + additional pick vs. Clowney or Robinson. In that case, I think it's a no brainer.

 

[crazyhorns]

Clowney out produced Quinn in college. Think about that. When you put him across from Quinn will the opposition be able to double and triple team him every down like his last college season? You say he wasn't doubled where everything I read says he was. I would like to read what you read if you care to share.

He's a freak athlete. I'll root for the freak athlete with Fisher and company coaching them up every time.

I would hope so he Clowney played 3 years and Quinn only 2.

I wonder what numbers Quninn would have put up if he played an additional year. I'm glad he did not since the Rams got him when they did.

Go Rams

 

[jrry32]

I like Matthews as well - after a trade down. I like him because he's plug and play. Great lineage. Great technician. But, but but... he's not an elite athlete or physical freak like Clowney or Robinson are.

So my question is couldn't making the "safe pick" turn around and bite us in the ass because we are ultimately watering down our talent level?

I guess it really comes down to Matthews + additional pick vs. Clowney or Robinson. In that case, I think it's a no brainer.

Yea, it could. But that also assumes that the safe pick doesn't have a lot of upside. In Matthews's case, I disagree.

But I agree that I'd take Clowney over Jake...just barely. However, Matthews would be my guy if we trade down or if Clowney is off the board.

 

[laramsoriginal]

I saw every bit of Clowney's film. Clowney has a high motor. I didn't see him take off plays. He was the best player I scouted.

Having said that, I don't know what his practice ethic is like. More importantly, outside of QB, what really is the position that matters most?
The Rams led the NFC West in sacks, and the Rams allowed the least amount of sacks in the NFC West. And we came in last! Damn!

Wow. Almost every tv talking head has questioned his motor after the 2013 season.

SC head coach Spurrier was asked about Clowney's work ethic recently, in which he replied "its ok"

Lol not sure if that is an endorsement or...

 

[jrry32]

That's Spurrier being Spurrier.

 

[Alan]

OnceARam trying for a homer:
I like Matthews as well - after a trade down. I like him because he's plug and play. Great lineage. Great technician. But, but but... he's not an elite athlete or physical freak like Clowney or Robinson are.

So my question is couldn't making the "safe pick" turn around and bite us in the ass because we are ultimately watering down our talent level?

I guess it really comes down to Matthews + additional pick vs. Clowney or Robinson. In that case, I think it's a no brainer.

You may not remember my early stance on Matthews where I thought he was already at his peak and wouldn't get any better. So I didn't want him. That hasn't changed much. I still think he's close to his peak but as many people have pointed out to me, Bou can work magic in getting him a little better. Despite the fact that his father probably knows more about the position than Bou does and has probably spent many, many years coaching up his son. So preferring Matthews is new for me.

So let's move on you the points you made.

First of all, I prefer Matthews even at #2 and I'll tell you why. Back during the great Monroe/Smith debate I lobbied to draft Monroe because he had proven he was a complete LOT in college and Smith was mostly all potential. Once bitten, twice shy.

As for your contention that it might bite us in the ass, I disagree with that wholeheartedly for the very reasons you and I have already mentioned. Both of us think, drafting Matthews will never "bite us in the ass" because the pick is too safe. Just like Monroe was. Had you worded that like this: "could drafting the safe pick potentially cause us to miss out on an opportunity to get our next Pace?", I would agree with you that it's a very real possibility. However, the difference between very good and great is less important on the O-line to me because of the fact that the O-line is much more a group effort than other positions. Could Matthews be a downgrade from Robinson? Sure, but can we afford to draft another Smith? When will we be drafting this high in the draft again to correct our error?

When you add in the extra high draft pick/starter we'd get in a trade down, it's a no-brainer for me.

 

[CGI_Ram]

You are slacking.. And to think I was almost convinced to bring you on the staff as the official greeter.

Something like?

 

[Alan]

That's my new career path BTW. As soon as my health improves enough to ride my bike to the local Wahlmart I plan on being the best damn greater in the universe. Or at least not too grumpy.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

So to give you a little background on myself, I was a member of a commune in Boulder, CO. 8 women and five guys. We basically just sold drugs and got high all day. I couldn't see doing that for the rest of my life so I joined the Air Force. I also get high every night because of my seizures.

Anyway, I'm telling you all this stuff because I want to point out that I have a lot of personal experience with this stuff. I only partially agree with your descriptions. For example, except when I'm typing on this board, no one can tell when I'm high. I've known guys that would fit your description but they are surprisingly few in number. I think there are more potheads around you than you think.

I worked with high school drop outs for 8 years. I could tell you the Pot Smokers after the first few days they were on the job. I could tell which we're pill heads and which ones were drinkers. The toughest ones to read we're the guys that dabbled in everything. The Coke heads had an edge to them all the time and they usually were lean and cut while still having good musculature. The potheads were always laid back and had a lot of trouble following directions,even if it was something I already taught them. They were usually on the soft side. The Pillheads were always nodding off around 11 and started fiending hard by 2 and either wanted to go home or get away from me for a bit, ditto for the heroine addicts. By 2 those guys had a greyish yellow tint to their skin and looked like they were struggling to just stand up. The alkies would start around 2 with the stomach cramps and claiming they were sick but didn't look sick. We didn't drug test and many of these kids used before and during work when they got a chance. It is more in depth than all of this but you get the idea. It was a very open system and I always had the kids trust because they new I was there to help them and unless they got caught in the act the worse thing that could happen was they get sent home without pay. They were surprisingly very open with me about their habits. I figured that if the State would not let me drug test the best thing I could do is try to understand their stance and win their trust and try to help them from a friendlier angle. It worked for most of them, but not all. I also had kids that were drug free that had other troubles, like social skill problems or autism. Once in a while I got a problem free kid that was very easy to deal with, but they got through the program very quickly and we found them permanent employment easily.

I did my share of pot smoking and hanging with that crowd back in the college days myself too. I even had a girlfriend that tried to convince me to move to a commune with her. I am not some old Codger that walked the straight and narrow my whole life. I am critical of drug use though because just like Alcohol, too much of it can interfere with leading a healthy life and definitely can be a detriment to the work environment. As a former Kung Fu disciple I also learned that even drinking a few beers the day before a tournament had a negative affect in my performance. I cannot imagine how anyone can put forth a maximum level of effort in a sport that is full of the best athletes in the country and be at the top of there game with lingering affects of Pot in their system, if they are chronic users.

 

[PhxRam]

That's my new career path BTW. As soon as my health improves enough to ride my bike to the local Wahlmart I plan on being the best damn greater in the universe. Or at least not too grumpy.

My father in law is/was a Walmart greeter. He since got promoted to register..LOL

He is retired and doesnt need the money, he just does it to get out and see people.

He takes about any day off he wants. They try and tell him he HAS to come in and he basically tells them to piss off. He likes to remind them that he doesnt need their job and surprisingly they dont bother him.

 

[Angry Ram]

My father in law is/was a Walmart greeter. He since got promoted to register..LOL

He is retired and doesnt need the money, he just does it to get out and see people.

He takes about any day off he wants. They try and tell him he HAS to come in and he basically tells them to pee pee off. He likes to remind them that he doesnt need their job and surprisingly they dont bother him.

LOL that's awesome. Especially to the people of fuckin Wal-Mart.

 

[Zaphod]

As a former Kung Fu disciple I also learned that even drinking a few beers the day before a tournament had a negative affect in my performance. I cannot imagine how anyone can put forth a maximum level of effort in a sport that is full of the best athletes in the country and be at the top of there game with lingering affects of Pot in their system, if they are chronic users.

That's awesome that you were a disciple! Kung Fu is hard enough, but that's a serious amount of work. Was it a St. Louis school?

I completely agree with your comment. Heck, even just running cross country, I remember beer would have an obviously negative impact on my time, and I wasn't even very good