Keep Fisher?

[Young Ram]

Stay the course.

This is how I would feel If we start over.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

I've been watching Black Monday all day, and what jumps to me is the dysfunction in a lot of these teams. I don't see that, with the Rams. If we fire Fisher. then we probably fire Snead, and Greg Williams. If we change any of these pieces. then we may have dysfunction. I'd rather have a team together moving forward, even if slowly, than have a team moving sideways, or backwards.

Yes, an argument can be made that we are not getting better, but I don't agree. Our personnel is a TON better, than it has been in a long time. Our offense, can get better. It will be better, but we can't do that, without the right pieces in place. We are not many pieces away.

I'll give Fisher this, and I am thankful for it, whether he remains the coach long term, or not, he has never made a move that was detrimental to this team's future. Too many coaches on the hot seat, have mortgaged their teams future's for their own temporary success.

I actually really appreciate this post - I fully get this POV

But what about this dark scenario - just for starters:

A Jeff Fisher team repeats ugly ass performance in the upcoming 2016 season -- let's say as oppose to this season we have 5 more TD's and end up getting a few breaks we end up with a Wild Card playoff birth --is that what you want?

Sure I'd be thrilled with going to the playoffs for the first time in ages but what have we really done? I'm only happy cause we are finally not perceived as such a sad sack franchise - but that's all we prove and would only keep Fisher in place and the promise of more mediocrity in 2017 and maybe longer

I mean we got beat by Gabbert and Tomsula - this isn't lost on me

I'm just saying -- Fisher isn't the guy to lead us to a Championship and he's proved that those last 4 years. So essentially if we don't fire him now we have just pushes the inevitable rebuilding (fisher getting canned ) for another year, like 2019

I mean isn't that a nightmare???
The time for change is now
If you change now you give the next regime solid building blocks -building blocks to take us from perennial mediocrity to CHAMPS!!

Someone out there can do it - I'm convinced after not making it to 8-8 that Fisher isn't the guy and the deeper we go the bigger the hole we dig

But yeah I get it - we are stuck with him and have to hope and pray he can pull a Vermeil without a viable QB outside of Mannion or a rookie in this upcoming draft

Prognosis - Negative

 

[rams24/7]

I've been watching Black Monday all day, and what jumps to me is the dysfunction in a lot of these teams. I don't see that, with the Rams. If we fire Fisher. then we probably fire Snead, and Greg Williams. If we change any of these pieces. then we may have dysfunction. I'd rather have a team together moving forward, even if slowly, than have a team moving sideways, or backwards.

Yes, an argument can be made that we are not getting better, but I don't agree. Our personnel is a TON better, than it has been in a long time. Our offense, can get better. It will be better, but we can't do that, without the right pieces in place. We are not many pieces away.

I'll give Fisher this, and I am thankful for it, whether he remains the coach long term, or not, he has never made a move that was detrimental to this team's future. Too many coaches on the hot seat, have mortgaged their teams future's for their own temporary success.

Props to fans like you with unwavering faith in the current regime even though Fisher has repeatedly shown us he's mediocre. He doesn't maximize the production from his players like Arians, Carroll, Harbaugh and he continues to brush off the biggest position in the sport.

4 years is enough of a sample size to show us that he isn't the long term answer. How many times do we follow a huge win over a team that's heavily favored only to lose to a team much lesser in talent the next? Anyone remember the Jets and Minny games of 2012 when we still had a chance at the playoffs?

Call me a skeptic, but I'll believe it when I see the results in the W/L column. The talent upgrade doesn't mean shit if we continue to watch from home in January. I get that you don't want to blow the whole thing up and start from scratch again, but that's the risk you run with mediocrity across the board.

 

[DR RAM]

I actually really appreciate this post - I fully get this POV

But what about this dark scenario - just for starters:

A Jeff Fisher team repeats ugly ass performance in the upcoming 2016 season -- let's say as oppose to this season we have 5 more TD's and end up getting a few breaks we end up with a Wild Card playoff birth --is that what you want?

Sure I'd be thrilled with going to the playoffs for the first time in ages but what have we really done? I'm only happy cause we are finally not perceived as such a sad sack franchise - but that's all we prove and would only keep Fisher in place and the promise of more mediocrity in 2017 and maybe longer

I mean we got beat by Gabbert and Tomsula - this isn't lost on me

I'm just saying -- Fisher isn't the guy to lead us to a Championship and he's proved that those last 4 years. So essentially if we don't fire him now we have just pushes the inevitable rebuilding (fisher getting canned ) for another year, like 2019

I mean isn't that a nightmare???
The time for change is now
If you change now you give the next regime solid building blocks -building blocks to take us from perennial mediocrity to CHAMPS!!

Someone out there can do it - I'm convinced after not making it to 8-8 that Fisher isn't the guy and the deeper we go the bigger the hole we dig

But yeah I get it - we are stuck with him and have to hope and pray he can pull a Vermeil without a viable QB outside of Mannion or a rookie in this upcoming draft

We need better play, and better coaching.

I know what I have with Fisher. This team is built to win his way. If we make changes, then we have to get players, to fit our new coaches. or coaches to fit our very young, talented group of players. Would our defense be as good without Williams? I don't think so, and when we look at the young guys who have stepped in, or how Williams has changed the defense to fit the players, that is rare. Very hard to find that kind of coach....just ask Payton.

What I want is sustainability, not mediocrity. I think, with a few moves, Fish can provide that. I understand everyone wanting better, I want better. It's hard to find. I hope you understand what I'm saying, and why I mentioned Asshole Face, who is considered a much better coach than Fisher, no? It's the whole group that matters.

We are moving forward. Maybe not in record, but in depth, in learning, in producing Pro Bowl caliber players. We probably have 5 guys at that level now, and a couple moving toward that.We need good, consistent QB play, yes, another very hard thing to find, but darn it, I think we will. I think our offense will get better. A couple have already showed that a few TD's here or there, and we could have been 12 - 5. Shit, that is not mediocre. Beating the Seahawks twice, is not mediocre.

We are getting better, we have depth, we have functionality. I can't convince anyone here, to what I see, or what I expected. I've thought all along, that next year would be our year. We could have made the playoffs this year, if Foles wasn't an absolute shell of himself. I believe that. Next year, our OL will be fixed for years, and we'll have depth, and they'll get even better.

Like I said, I can't convince anybody, but I am still on board, until he loses the team. or dysfunction ensues, or we sell our future for a POS, like J. Football.

 

[BonifayRam]

Before I moved on our Fisher I would have to remind myself of what happen this season and its not a normal list of injuries for any NFL team.....
#1- Lost to injury our starting CB placed on IR before season started.
#2- Lost to injury our best starting LB'er.
#3- Lost to injury our best pro bowl starting DE.
#4- Lost to injury our best starting veteran OG.
#5- Lost to injury our other starting rookie OG.
#6- Lost to injury our best starting safety.

Add in the injuries that greatly effected ....
#1- Lost for periods of time our other Starting DE with a knee.
#2- Starting MLB played through a dislocated left elbow for most of the season.
#3- Lost our 3rd WR to suspension & non- football injury for most of this season.

6 defensive 3 offensive

 

[DR RAM]

Props to fans like you with unwavering faith in the current regime even though Fisher has repeatedly shown us he's mediocre. He doesn't maximize the production from his players like Arians, Carroll, Harbaugh and he continues to brush off the biggest position in the sport.

4 years is enough of a sample size to show us that he isn't the long term answer. How many times do we follow a huge win over a team that's heavily favored only to lose to a team much lesser in talent the next? Anyone remember the Jets and Minny games of 2012 when we still had a chance at the playoffs?

Call me a skeptic, but I'll believe it when I see the results in the W/L column. The talent upgrade doesn't mean crap if we continue to watch from home in January. I get that you don't want to blow the whole thing up and start from scratch again, but that's the risk you run with mediocrity across the board.

I spelled out my faith in my last post, and it is not blind. We have to become medium, before we become above average. I hope that most of you see that we are getting better, because we are. We can thank Fisher, his staff, and Snead for that.

I try to look at the big picture. I'd join the Fire, Fisher squad, if I thought he was killing this team. At this point, I don't. In fact, his keeping Gurley out, is a testament to his commitment to this football team's future, and not a condemnation.

 

[rams24/7]

I spelled out my faith in my last post, and it is not blind. We have to become medium, before we become above average. I hope that most of you see that we are getting better, because we are. We can thank Fisher, his staff, and Snead for that.

Really? So are we on the 10-year plan? Because in the end all that matters is WINS and LOSSES. Let's see we were 7-8-1 in 2012 and we finished this year 7-9. Is that progress?

Not even in Cleveland is 4-straight losing seasons acceptable. Show me where the improvement is on the field because it certainly hasn't equated into more wins. Todd Gurley? Sure. Aaron Donald. Of course. But in the end those 2 and others don't make a difference if the head honcho can't steer the ship in the right direction. Look at Washington. We have acquired significantly more talent than them in recent years, yet why are they the playoff team? Because their coaches actually value the QB position and realize that you need better than backup caliber play to go anywhere in this league.

Did you hear the quotes from Fisher's presser today? Quotes like:

"Case played well enough for us to win"

"Case is an incomplete pass and a missed FG away from being 5-0"

"Case is our starter and Nick will have a chance to compete"

He's ok with the status quo even though it has yielded sub-par results. It speaks volumes about him, our owner, and our franchise as a whole. It could be worse. At least we're not 15-65.

If we have to become medium before we can become above average, how come it took Arians, Carroll, and Harbaugh 1 year or less to reach the playoffs? Somehow they made due with the initial rosters they were dealt and still were able to contend while building the teams they wanted.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Fool me thrice shame on me. Fool me...

 

[rams24/7]

Before I moved on our Fisher I would have to remind myself of what happen this season and its not a normal list of injuries for any NFL team.....
#1- Lost to injury our starting CB placed on IR before season started.
#2- Lost to injury our best starting LB'er.
#3- Lost to injury our best pro bowl starting DE.
#4- Lost to injury our best starting veteran OG.
#5- Lost to injury our other starting rookie OG.
#6- Lost to injury our best starting safety.

Add in the injuries that greatly effected ....
#1- Lost for periods of time our other Starting DE with a knee.
#2- Starting MLB played through a dislocated left elbow for most of the season.
#3- Lost our 3rd WR to suspension & non- football injury for most of this season.

6 defensive 3 offensive

Somehow other teams are able to overcome similar losses. I'm tired of making excuses.

 

[DR RAM]

Really? So are we on the 10-year plan? Because in the end all that matters is WINS and LOSSES. Let's see we were 7-8-1 in 2012 and we finished this year 7-9. Is that progress?

Not even in Cleveland is 4-straight losing seasons acceptable. Show me where the improvement is on the field because it certainly hasn't equated into more wins. Todd Gurley? Sure. Aaron Donald. Of course. But in the end those 2 and others don't make a difference if the head honcho can't steer the ship in the right direction. Look at Washington. We have acquired significantly more talent than them in recent years, yet why are they the playoff team? Because their coaches actually value the QB position and realize that you need better than backup caliber play to go anywhere in this league.

Did you hear the quotes from Fisher's presser today? Quotes like:

"Case played well enough for us to win"

"Case is an incomplete pass and a missed FG away from being 5-0"

"Case is our starter and Nick will have a chance to compete"

He's ok with the status quo even though it has yielded sub-par results. It speaks volumes about him, our owner, and our franchise as a whole. It could be worse. At least we're not 15-65.

If we have to become medium before we can become above average, how come it took Arians, Carroll, and Harbaugh 1 year or less to reach the playoffs? Somehow they made due with the initial rosters they were dealt and still were able to contend while building the teams they wanted.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Fool me thrice shame on me. Fool me...

I'm not on here to argue with you. I said that I couldn't change your view/opinion, but could just offer mine, and how I see it. Don't call me a fool though. I am far from that.

 

[rams24/7]

We need better play, and better coaching.

I know what I have with Fisher. This team is built to win his way. If we make changes, then we have to get players, to fit our new coaches. or coaches to fit our very young, talented group of players. Would our defense be as good without Williams? I don't think so, and when we look at the young guys who have stepped in, or how Williams has changed the defense to fit the players, that is rare. Very hard to find that kind of coach....just ask Payton.

What I want is sustainability, not mediocrity. I think, with a few moves, Fish can provide that. I understand everyone wanting better, I want better. It's hard to find. I hope you understand what I'm saying, and why I mentioned Asshole Face, who is considered a much better coach than Fisher, no? It's the whole group that matters.

We are moving forward. Maybe not in record, but in depth, in learning, in producing Pro Bowl caliber players. We probably have 5 guys at that level now, and a couple moving toward that.We need good, consistent QB play, yes, another very hard thing to find, but darn it, I think we will. I think our offense will get better. A couple have already showed that a few TD's here or there, and we could have been 12 - 5. crap, that is not mediocre. Beating the Seahawks twice, is not mediocre.

We are getting better, we have depth, we have functionality. I can't convince anyone here, to what I see, or what I expected. I've thought all along, that next year would be our year. We could have made the playoffs this year, if Foles wasn't an absolute shell of himself. I believe that. Next year, our OL will be fixed for years, and we'll have depth, and they'll get even better.

Like I said, I can't convince anybody, but I am still on board, until he loses the team. or dysfunction ensues, or we sell our future for a POS, like J. Football.

I really do appreciate your POV and it's one I shared a few years ago. But I'm taking a wait and see approach at this point. I'm usually one of the most optimistic fans you'll see come summertime, but the Rams have shown to disappoint me time and time again. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Lesson]

If we have to become medium before we can become above average, how come it took Arians, Carroll, and Harbaugh 1 year or less to reach the playoffs? Somehow they made due with the initial rosters they were dealt and still were able to contend while building the teams they wanted.

 

[rams24/7]

I'm not on here to argue with you. I said that I couldn't change your view/opinion, but could just offer mine, and how I see it. Don't call me a fool though. I am far from that.

I'd love to see what you're saying come to fruition, but I'm sure you understand why many fans, myself included, are skeptical. Always happy to eat crow on my own team

 

[rams24/7]

Somehow something tells me Harbaugh and Arians had a lot to due with the rebirth of Smith and Palmer. Fish never put a premium on doing the same to bring in the best OC for Sam's development.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

I'm a Ram fan until I die
I have undying faith
But must I continually be the Jobe of football fans?!!
Cant I be freakin' David for a few years and kill some philistines ??

 

[BonifayRam]

Somehow other teams are able to overcome similar losses. I'm tired of making excuses.

I understand your point fully. I was not making anything nor excuses ....I was listing the facts. Facts/Elements that should always be considered when making very big decisions.

What grips my posterior more with Fisher, is the players we got from the RG3 trade ...
OLT Greg Robinson #1 - in fail mode
WR Stedman Bailey #3- non producer
LB Alex Ogletree #1 starter
RB Isaiah Pead #2 failed
CB Janoris Jenkins #2 departing for UFA
DT M. Brockers starter

Of the six players only 2 of the 6 will be good producers going into the 2016 season from very high draft picks. Brockers/Ogletree & Bailey will enter free agency next yr leaving us with just Greg Robinson....not much to show for after all. Time fly's by does it not.

 

[DR RAM]

I'd love to see what you're saying come to fruition, but I'm sure you understand why many fans, myself included, are skeptical. Always happy to eat crow on my own team

I do understand, fully. If they go in a new direction tomorrow, and blow it all up, there will be collateral damage. If that is acceptable, and we are better in the long run, then I'm all for it. I want the Rams to be better, just as much as anybody. Our last two regimes were a total joke, and a complete clusterhump. This regime isn't that, and like I said, we'll be better in the future, because of Fisher/Snead, whether he remains the coach, or not.

 

[Lesson]

Somehow something tells me Harbaugh and Arians had a lot to due with the rebirth of Smith and Palmer. Fish never put a premium on doing the same to bring in the best OC for Sam's development.

Arians brought in Palmer, the other 2 were inherited.

And I disagree completely regarding Schottenheimer being the OC. Fisher didn't put Sam in a position to fail. For whatever reason, Sam didn't turn out to be the guy. His start to the 2013 season was promising, but tearing his ACL in Carolina ruined his development.

The QB performances that all 3 of those teams have had since Fisher has been in St. Louis has been better than the Rams for the most part. Until Fisher finds "the guy", you can continue to expect 6 and 7 win seasons.

 

[DR RAM]

I understand your point fully. I was not making anything nor excuses ....I was listing the facts. Facts/Elements that should always be considered when making very big decisions.

What grips my posterior more with Fisher, is the players we got from the RG3 trade ...
OLT Greg Robinson #1 - in fail mode
WR Stedman Bailey #3- non producer
LB Alex Ogletree #1 starter
RB Isaiah Pead #2 failed
CB Janoris Jenkins #2 departing for UFA
DT M. Brockers starter

Of the six players only 2 of the 6 or 1/3 are good producers going into the 2016 season from very high draft picks. Brockers/Ogletree & Bailey will enter free agency next yr leaving us with just Greg Robinson....not much to show for after all.

Or..... we could have RGME. Overall, I still like the deal.

 

[BonifayRam]

Or..... we could have RGME. Overall, I like the deal.

Oh don't get me wrong so did I but I sure would have hoped the Rams could have ceased the opportunities for some good seasons of wins.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

I understand your point fully. I was not making anything nor excuses ....I was listing the facts. Facts/Elements that should always be considered when making very big decisions.

What grips my posterior more with Fisher, is the players we got from the RG3 trade ...
OLT Greg Robinson #1 - in fail mode
WR Stedman Bailey #3- non producer
LB Alex Ogletree #1 starter
RB Isaiah Pead #2 failed
CB Janoris Jenkins #2 departing for UFA
DT M. Brockers starter

Of the six players only 2 of the 6 or 1/3 are good producers going into the 2016 season from very high draft picks. 2/3 would be acceptable but 1/3 is Unacceptable. Those were Fishers selections.

This is still better, Bonifay than the Dickerson haul - I mean Fred Strickland, Frank Stams, Gaston Green, Aaron Cox, Greg Bell (maybe), Owen Gill?? We sent Bennet to the Bills .... All that crap for Dickerson ....

The RG3 trade is still highway robbery in my opinion - cause RG3 is a complete bust even if he manages to revive his career in Dallas

Ogletree, Jenkins, Brockers is positive for bust RG3