Hill isn't a drop off versus Bradford IMO

[dieterbrock]

And frankly I'm still waiting for somebody to expound on the "there's a huge drop off" point of view.

Because there isnt one. There wasnt one last year either from Bradford to Clemens.

The huge drop off lies in the perception of Bradford's "ceiling".
There's no discernible drop off in production from Sam to any of his backups, or compared to Hill's production.
The "drop off" comes from the expectations set for #8 that are well above what he's done in his career, seemingly a typical Bradofrd year would be a huge drop off from what some were expecting from him this year.

No way to prove what he woulda done this year. No right or wrong

 

[Mojo Ram]

Yes the knee is problematic and because of it everyone gets to dog on the guy for another 12 months but I pray to God he is released because knee and all I will prove his worth once and for all.

Why would you want him to be released and then prove his worth?

 

[Philly5]

Hoping Hill wins NFL MVP this year.

Bradford was pretty good in (half of) 2013 and looked Excellent in preseason throwing to Quick and Britt. If Hill can start there and we do some more winning it will be a good year.

 

[Username]

I have to respectively disagree. Very strongly disagree.

The most frustrating thing about Sams time here, is that we'll never know how talented of a player he could've developed into. Just as he started to play his best ball last season he got injured. He started to have the confidence to let his ability take over and just let the ball fly. Most noticeably though, was his mobility in the pocket. He was starting to make things happen when there was nothing happening. Also I know it's pre-season, but Sam looked amazing this year. He was squeezing the ball into places he never even thought twice about throwing in the past. He was going through all of his reads at a split second, and he was looking off safeties left and right. He knows this offense like the back of his hand now.

He had a vet receiver in Britt who is miles above what Clayton was, and his rapport/trust with his whole receiving crew was at a all time high. He has a great staple of backs behind him, and possible pro-bowlers down the entire line in front of him if they stay healthy. Overall he is surrounded by the most talent ever since he's been here, this is his 3rd year in the system (others as well), and he's in the prime of his career. Hill on the other hand hasn't started a game since 2009, has very shaky down field numbers, and turns the ball over more than I would like on a team built for possession.

We'll see what happens. Hill is getting the ball from day 1, and like I said this is a very talented team on both sides of the ball if we can stay healthy now. Hopefully he can survive long enough to really sink his teeth into the offense. I don't think he's a scrub, but to suggest it's a wash between him and a healthy Bradford this year is insane imo.

 

[bskrilla]

Here's where I come down on this.

I think the floor with both SB and SH is very similar, and that floor is pretty high. Neither of them was going to go out and shit the bed.

The difference to me comes in when we're talking about their ceiling. Sam's ceiling is SIGNIFICANTLY higher that Hill's simply because of his arm strength.


Would the offense be better with Sam at QB? I think that's an easy yes. Is the offense still going to be good enough to win games with our defense and Shaun Hill at QB? I think that's also a yes.

 

[blue4]

Arm strength- Yep, Bradford can gun it tight windows anytime. I don't wanna see Hill try to gun much of anything. He's not that kind of guy.

Pocket Presence- Bradford never excelled at that. Clemens was better in the pocket than Sam. Hill is right there....

Not worried about the playbook, that'll come.

-Hill can make his reads. But being able to get the ball on time is an issue if the coverage is close.

-Hill throws a weird ball now and again on intermediate throws. Clemens was even worse about that. Sam was routinely excellent on theses plays.

- How is leadership even a discussion? Sam's been the one guys lean on ever since Jackskon left. Hill hasn't come close to earning that. In time, maybe.

-Chemistry. Sam and Quick had something special brewing. Quick knew it, too. No way does Hill match it. For one thing he can't make the strong arm, deep, in the manner of Bradford. This is by far the biggest drop off and it's enough to take the whole darn cake.

I think it's possible to pull out a miracle season, but miracle doesn't enter the equation with Bradford. It'd just be a great season.

I don't think Clemens had much pocket awareness either, he always looked like he was playing in fast forward.

Hopefully Hill brings some veteran presence this year. I think that he will play well enough to startle some teams.

 

[mr.stlouis]

I don't think Clemens had much pocket awareness either, he always looked like he was playing in fast forward.

Hopefully Hill brings some veteran presence this year. I think that he will play well enough to startle some teams.

The guy could extend a play, though. He had a few epic moments, there. However, for every epic moment there was a blunder. That was Clemens.

 

[Blue and Gold]

Same ole fishhook gets the same ole' fish.

 

[AZRamsFan93]

About where I stopped reading. To say Bradford is average is redonk. His numbers may not have been there, but he had no o line during his career and receivers that couldnt hold on to the ball to save their lives. Now that Bradford has the o line and receivers, he was killing it last year and this offseason. You're entitled to an opinion, I just don't share it sir.

The key with Sam has always been performance versus potential.

One point of view: Sam has never had the complete team around him, he has great potential. This is true.
A second point of view: Sam has never delivered the kind of numbers in any measurement to be considered anything but "just another guy". This is also true.

In reality, no one really knows what we had in Bradford.

Sadly, now we may never know.

 

[JackDRams]

A second point of view: Sam has never delivered the kind of numbers in any measurement to be considered anything but "just another guy". This is also true.

The guy won the heisman. To do that, you gotta deliver some numbers. They don't just hand those out to just another guy. Not to mention being the first overall pick. You could argue that he hasn't done much in the nfl. But he won offensive rookie of the year. With a shit o line and shit receivers. Was doing a great job last year before injury and this off-season.

 

[Memphis Ram]

- Soley relying upon completion percentage to measure a QBs accuracy is flawed as there are different variables/circumstances that come into play to complete a pass.

- Comparing the career stats of players in different circumstances to determine their potential outcome this year makes no sense as players can improve/develop or drop off over time. The key is what they are today and in today's circumstances. Not yesterday in yesterday's circumstances. ie. Some may disagree but IMO, Bradford was far better last year than he was in 2011, yet those 2011 stats are still being used to judge him today by the OP.

In the end, and as I've stated in other threads, I still believe that this team can win games this year without Bradford because of talent/experience increase of the rest of the TEAM. And especially, if the TEAM isn't riddled with (other) injuries like past seasons. But, I still suspect that when this happens, there will be posters ignoring the TEAM'S talent/experience increase and blame Bradford for all the down seasons of the lesser talented/experienced teams.

 

[AZRamsFan93]

The guy won the heisman. To do that, you gotta deliver some numbers. They don't just hand those out to just another guy. Not to mention being the first overall pick. You could argue that he hasn't done much in the nfl. But he won offensive rookie of the year. With a crap o line and crap receivers. Was doing a great job last year before injury and this off-season.

So clearly you fit into point of view #1.

 

[iced]

He doesn't have the same arm, I agree with that. I wasn't saying Hill was superior in every way but just so you know Hill has been far more accurate than Bradford over his career.

he's also had one of the best receivers in the game in calvin johnson...that's cream of the crop... bradford has had the bottom of the barrel or hospital left overs

 

[JIMERAMS]

did you watch bradford.against GB?

Oh ya he missed one throw. No other QB ever does that I like hill and think we will be ok but he doesn't have the arm Bradford does period and he has NOT been as accurate as bradford. if you can't see that don't know what to tell you

 

[Teran]

Bradford has better hands, arm, and throwing motion, but Hill has better eyes and feet. He certainly isn't afraid to toss it up so the two big boys on the sides of the field (Quick, Britt) and the two big boys on the inside (Cook, Kendricks et. al) can go get it. He is also pretty good at reading crossing routes and tracking his receivers. I think Hill's pace will be okay as long as the line holds up. If he starts getting a little banged up he seems to get defeated if that is the feeling he gets from the line. He probably won't be as good a cheerleader as Clemons or even Bradford, but one never knows.

 

[Philly5]

No reason for this season to become Bradford vs Hill. That is a lose/lose proposition for everyone but the trolls. I paid $180 for Ticket Max and want to watch some wins.

 

[LesBaker]

he's also had one of the best receivers in the game in calvin johnson...that's cream of the crop... bradford has had the bottom of the barrel or hospital left overs

yeah but Bradford has been less than accurate for most of his career

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Lets compare the time they spent on the bench.

Well said, pretty much ended the debate right there.

Shaun Hill vs. Sam Bradford = no drop off?

Sorry Les but...ehhh nevermind, we need good stuff and this has somehow lasted 5 pages to date. (incredible)

I expect Shaun Hill to do a very commendable job, hell Randy Moss sez so, but to actually write there will be "no" drop off?

 

[Blue and Gold]

Shaun Hill vs. Sam Bradford = no drop off?

Sorry Les but...ehhh nevermind, we need good stuff and this has somehow lasted 5 pages to date. (incredible)

I expect Shaun Hill to do a very commendable job, hell Randy Moss sez so, but to actually write there will be "no" drop off?

Exactly right.

 

[-X-]

he's also had one of the best receivers in the game in calvin johnson...that's cream of the crop... bradford has had the bottom of the barrel or hospital left overs

yeah but Bradford has been less than accurate for most of his career

Tell me you see the correlation.