Hill Down the Stretch

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Robocop

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I dont understand this obsession with keeping Davis as our backup. yea he's a great guy but we saw what happened to him after defenses figured him out with consistent pressure and he couldn't pull it off without Quick saving him. idk maybe if he comes back with extremely improved mechanics but his little winning stretch was a fluke and wanting him now as a backup 'as is' is an awful idea IMO.
 

Memphis Ram

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I am a Sam Bradford fan.

However, if the Rams run the table with Shaun Hill at QB (going 9-7), how does Fisher turn the reins back over to the guy with a huge contract who would have missed the last 25 regular season games?
 

fearsomefour

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Haha, Sam is not going to be the backup. Wow!
I know.
I was if Bradford is restructured it makes sense to bring Hill back as a quality backup. Wasnt super clear how I typed that.
I was saying it makes sense to bring Hill back whether Bradford resigns or not.
 

fearsomefour

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I am a Sam Bradford fan.

However, if the Rams run the table with Shaun Hill at QB (going 9-7), how does Fisher turn the reins back over to the guy with a huge contract who would have missed the last 25 regular season games?
It's an interesting question.
To me it's all about money.
Lets say Bradford reduces his cap number by $6 M and Hill demands a $2.5M increase to stay as SAMs backup that is money well spent in my opinion. Another vet will need to be added if Hill stays and Bradford is cut to save $12M.
To me the best case is both staying.
 

den-the-coach

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I am a Sam Bradford fan.

However, if the Rams run the table with Shaun Hill at QB (going 9-7), how does Fisher turn the reins back over to the guy with a huge contract who would have missed the last 25 regular season games?

You don't...If Hill beats Seattle in Seattle with they way they are playing now and the Rams end up 9-7 Hill is the guy next year. You could start with Bradford on the PUP list to ensure total health after having a major renegotiation of his contact.
 

CGI_Ram

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I think Hill is the ultimate depth guy. You can win with him, but at his age he's not a guy you build around.

So, Bradford + rookie + Hill sounds about right.

PS; Sam deserves to lead this team into the postseason. If healthy, he will.
 

Memphis Ram

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I think Hill is the ultimate depth guy. You can win with him, but at his age he's not a guy you build around.

So, Bradford + rookie + Hill sounds about right.

PS; Sam deserves to lead this team into the postseason. If healthy, he will.

Why does Bradford deserve to lead this team?

And doesn't someone like Hill make more sense on a team if the plan is to select a QB early? He could be a decent placeholder for the guy.
 

RamzFanz

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I don't agree that Sam deserves it but, if he restructures, I would love to see what he can do with the emerging Rams. Especially if Hill wins out and we are comfortable we have a solid backup. Sam knows this O and team. He has a nice arm. Hill could teach him a few things too.
 

CGI_Ram

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Why does Bradford deserve to lead this team?

He's been an admirable leader and respected teammate in the clubhouse. He's a classy face for the franchise - in public and on TV - in an era that "me first" and "ego" is far too common among super stardom.

If there is a guy who deserves to rise above some difficult times; it's a man like Sam Bradford.
 
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Memphis Ram

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He's been an admirable leader and respected teammate in the clubhouse. He's a classy face for the franchise - in public and on TV - in an era that "me first" and "ego" is far too common among super stardom.

If there is a guy who deserves to rise above some difficult times; it's a man like Sam Bradford.

Oh. So you were speaking from a fan perspective. My bad. I get it, as there is no way anyone who has missed the last 25 games deserves his starting job back from a football perspective.

I've heard of not losing your job due to injury, but that's ridiculous.
 

RamFan503

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True. In retrospect, he should have ate the ball, run the ball, or wait for Cunningham. I thought it was a TD. Britt was open by a step. Hill threw it dead on. It was a great defensive play to stay there and patiently wait as Hill went through progressions and jump the route.

But I just can't justify an empty backfield pass play in that situation. Hill has once again driven the team down the field into scoring position. You have Tre, Bam Bam, Zac, and Austin. You have dozens of smart conservative run or screen plays that preserve the tie and take a shot at the win. All post season hopes are on the line. Risking an interception on a bad pass / great D play, batted pass, tipped ball by the receiver, or strip sack was just not necessary.

But I disagree about the "ducks all day" comment (of course:)). Or, at least, I would have to say the bad passes mostly looked like good decisions to me. He overthrew someone long but he avoided a sack and an intentional grounding penalty while overthrowing a covered receiver. Was it a smart veteran play or a miss? He also threw a few too high. But ducks? I didn't see ducks.

Thanks, now I have to go rewatch it. Damn Jelly.
Yeah - I'm not trying to bag on Hill. I'm really not. I liked the signing and thought he was about the best option out there at the time. Though he is getting long in the tooth, I don't think he can't learn some things himself in the form of system and players.

My defending AD was not about whether I thought he was some great QB in the making. I simply hadn't seen enough to rule out the possibility and there was some pretty pathetic line play that I thought had a lot to do with it. I still think that this season was Davis' chance. I don't see him sticking with the team unless they put him on the practice squad. Guess we'll see.

I'm fine with Hill and hope he now leads our team to win out and for us to re-sign him for next season if he continues to improve his play on the field.

On the pass however, though I too was thinking run the ball into the endzone from there, if you rewatch the game, it was anything but a given that we could do that. Take away a couple runs and Mason was averaging less than 3 yards per carry and it gets even harder to run the closer you get to the end zone. When Fish explained it later, I got the idea and if it went as planned that the play was to either go to Benny or thrown away, I don't think many would have that big of a problem with the call. As Fish said, we were going for the win and trying to be aggressive. The right QB play and at minimum, we are kicking a short FG to go to OT.
 

RamFan503

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PS; Sam deserves to lead this team into the postseason. If healthy, he will.

Why does Bradford deserve to lead this team?

He's been an admirable leader and respected teammate in the clubhouse. He's a classy face for the franchise - in public and on TV - in an era that "me first" and "ego" is far too common among super stardom.

If there is a guy who deserves to rise above some difficult times; it's a man like Sam Bradford.

I don't know that I would go so far as to say Sam "deserves" to lead this team. But I don't find many players I would like to see have success more so than Sam. The contract is what it is. He'd have gotten that from any team. But the guy has always been a positive role model, a good team mate, a student of the game, and is right there with the team through all this. Maybe it's that WE deserve for Sam to lead this team. I think as fans we should all hope for that to be the case. If he comes back healthy (yeah - I get the big "if" stuff) there aren't many QBs that have his skill set. It's funny how many other teams' fans have put Sam on their wish list to replace their QBs.
 

Yamahopper

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Oh. So you were speaking from a fan perspective. My bad. I get it, as there is no way anyone who has missed the last 25 games deserves his starting job back from a football perspective.

I've heard of not losing your job due to injury, but that's ridiculous.

If he can do more than walk how does not he get his starting job back in the first practice next July? His arm talent alone is light years ahead of what other QB's they have now or can reasonably be expected to bring in.

It's known as the "Bradford Conundrum". He can out class any other QB the Rams can have, but can't prove it in games.
 

MauiRam

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You don't...If Hill beats Seattle in Seattle with they way they are playing now and the Rams end up 9-7 Hill is the guy next year. You could start with Bradford on the PUP list to ensure total health after having a major renegotiation of his contact.
My thoughts exactly. Even if Hill doesn't win out, he brings plenty to the table as a backup, plus he now has starting experience running Schotty's offense. The bit about Sam and the PUP if necessary is spot on IMO. Shaun has a chance to reinforce the coaching staff's trust in these last few games, and I believe he will do so.
 

MauiRam

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If he wins out he better get signed by the Rams fast or someone else will grab him. This team needs him because Bradford isn't likely to be in the plans and there has to be a bridge QB for a year while a new guy learns.
What in the world causes you to think Sam Bradford won't be in the Rams plans next year? You are kidding right? Sam will restructure his contract to something with reasonable guaranteed money, and heavily laden with incentives - particularly with regard to playing sixteen games per year. Hopefully Shaun Hill will be re-signed and the Rams will draft a Qb to compete with him - not in the first round either.
 

Memphis Ram

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What in the world causes you to think Sam Bradford won't be in the Rams plans next year? You are kidding right? Sam will restructure his contract to something with reasonable guaranteed money, and heavily laden with incentives - particularly with regard to playing sixteen games per year. Hopefully Shaun Hill will be re-signed and the Rams will draft a Qb to compete with him - not in the first round either.

Many people seem to make this assumption, but what makes you so sure that Bradford will re-do his contract? What if he doesn't?
 

-X-

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Many people seem to make this assumption, but what makes you so sure that Bradford will re-do his contract? What if he doesn't?
That's true. He's under no obligation to redo his contract here. I do think that he would feel obligated to help out the Rams though if/when they present him with the option of redoing it or finding another team. Not that they would approach him that way. The wildcard is his agents. Dogra and Condon are kind of aggressive.
 

RamzFanz

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I don't know that I would go so far as to say Sam "deserves" to lead this team. But I don't find many players I would like to see have success more so than Sam. The contract is what it is. He'd have gotten that from any team. But the guy has always been a positive role model, a good team mate, a student of the game, and is right there with the team through all this. Maybe it's that WE deserve for Sam to lead this team. I think as fans we should all hope for that to be the case. If he comes back healthy (yeah - I get the big "if" stuff) there aren't many QBs that have his skill set. It's funny how many other teams' fans have put Sam on their wish list to replace their QBs.

I just rewatched the game. I've got to say, Hill was damn good. Dude was under pressure all game and made some really really good passes. Some were dropped and many great plays were called back.

It also dawned on me why a lot of people MIGHT be thinking he makes a lot of bad passes. He throws a TON of timing routes. If the receiver doesn't make it to the right spot on time, or the defender catches up, it looks like a bad pass. SB and AD don't throw a lot of timing routes so it's not what we're used to seeing.

Good examples are the TD passes to Bailey. The one that got called back that Bailey caught behind the defender's back, Hill released that ball when Bailey was still a yard off the line of scrimmage. Bailey got to where he needed to be and the ball placement and timing were right on. The defender just caught up with him. The second one looks like this arching weak lob but is a timing route. Bailey is just entering the endzone when Hill releases. He HAD to put the lob on it to get it to be in the right spot at the right time. It was perfect.

This is also why Bailey is exploding under Hill where he didn't under AD IMO. Hill trusts Bailey on timing routes. AD held the ball until he could see the open receiver.

The second reason is that Hill throws the ball away a lot under pressure by overthrowing the covered receiver. The ball almost always goes high out of bounds or over the covered receivers head to land in the open field. These are smart throws. It's almost always when he's about to be sacked and he's still in the pocket. He avoids the sack and the penalty.

If you re-watch the game with this in mind, is he about to be sacked or is this a timing route, his entire game has a different light to it. The lobs are about hang time, not a weak arm. I'm not saying he has a great arm, but that's not why he appears to lob.

He lobbed that one TD to Britt that got called back and it left his hand while Britt was still half way through his route completely covered making his double move. The move worked and the ball fell into his hands down field in stride at the perfect time.

IMHO, these are the reasons for the Rams success in avoiding the issues AD had. Hill doesn't scramble much. Instead he releases very quickly and throws a timing pass or throws it away. When he does scramble, he's pretty damn good. AD might be a fantastic QB behind a really good line where Hill's particular skillset is much more geared towards a weak line.

We also need to remember that the Chargers are the #7 passing D and earned those interceptions. They were both heads up plays where the defender was stalking the route and came from the opposite side of the receiver.

We'll see how Hill finishes the season, but I agree, I think we have a keeper. I think if people watched with these points in mind, they would change their opinion on Hill.
 
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RamzFanz

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That's true. He's under no obligation to redo his contract here. I do think that he would feel obligated to help out the Rams though if/when they present him with the option of redoing it or finding another team. Not that they would approach him that way. The wildcard is his agents. Dogra and Condon are kind of aggressive.

I would think so too. the Rams right now would be hard for a QB with a limited resume to walk away from. By the end of next season he could be a top QB with the Rams. That's worth far more to him in the long run especially since he's already earned a mountain of cash. If he goes to a sucky team and ruins his career, that's on him.