Higbee Higbee Higbee!

[Merlin]

OK but that has nothing to do with my point.

I’m not criticizing the strategy; and I clearly said I expect Higbee to be a Ram in 2023.

Just pointed out that, this off-season, Rams have moved on from productive veteran starters without having clear replacements.

What they have moved on from are vets whose contracts were greater than their production. If that had been true with Higs he also would be gone.

Also moving on from those types is not new. Difference this year is it being a reload season and the replacements being questionable..

 

[Allen2McVay]

What they have moved on from are vets whose contracts were greater than their production. If that had been true with Higs he also would be gone.

Also moving on from those types is not new. Difference this year is it being a reload season and the replacements being questionable..

Two different topics that are not, at all, inconsistent.

What you wrote ... 'they have moved on from vets whose contracts were greater than their production' .

What I wrote ... "Rams have moved on from productive veteran starters without having clear replacements."

Both those statement are reasonable, and not inconsistent.

Ramsey and Floyd's contracts may have been deemed greater than their current production; AND, both Ramsey and Floyd remained productive veteran starters (clearly the Rams' best CB and Edge); AND, in neither case, did the Rams have clear replacements.

 

[dieterbrock]

Completely agree; and expect Higbee to be with the Rams in 2023. However, getting 'rid of a highly productive player, with no conceivable replacement' is arguably exactly what the Rams did when they moved-on from Ramsey and Floyd, among others.

While both will be missed, I still dont find the impact necessarily comparable. Higbee was/is basically the sole TE receiving option, a large % of plays he was the only TE. His impact is required on virtually every down he's on the field. DE/LB will rotate between 3-4 players on field at same time and will rotate out 5-6 guys, DBack ranging between 4-5 players on the field at same time where and also rotate. While Ramsey may be better at his position than Higbee, he will also be involved in significantly less plays. (Snap counts dont tell the story)

 

[Allen2McVay]

While both will be missed, I still dont find the impact necessarily comparable. Higbee was/is basically the sole TE receiving option, a large % of plays he was the only TE. His impact is required on virtually every down he's on the field. DE/LB will rotate between 3-4 players on field at same time and will rotate out 5-6 guys, DBack ranging between 4-5 players on the field at same time where and also rotate. While Ramsey may be better at his position than Higbee, he will also be involved in significantly less plays. (Snap counts dont tell the story)

OK but my point had nothing to do with the 'impact' of moving-on from Ramsey/Floyd compared to moving-on from Higbee.

As to your point, are you saying a top-TE has a greater impact than a top-CB? Don't think I agree with that.

 

[fanotodd]

OK but my point had nothing to do with the 'impact' of moving-on from Ramsey/Floyd compared to moving-on from Higbee.

As to your point, are you saying a top-TE has a greater impact than a top-CB? Don't think I agree with that.

You should.

You can have dijon sanders in his prime. I can still beat you without having to challenge him. I bring out kelce in his prime and there’s no way you’re beating me unless you stop him.

 

[Allen2McVay]

You should.

You can have dijon sanders in his prime. I can still beat you without having to challenge him. I bring out kelce in his prime and there’s no way you’re beating me unless you stop him.

Sanders took the top-WR away from an opponents' offense; and allowed his defense to double team most any other receiving weapon. There were games he was rarely challenged; and, yet, had a huge impact on the outcome because of how the other 10 players on defense could play the other 10 players on offense.

Top CBs go high every draft, while the top TEs are often not selected until the late-first or early-second.

It's a good topic for discussion but now I am wondering if those punk rockers had a point.

 

[OldSchool]

Sanders took the top-WR away from an opponents' offense; and allowed his defense to double team most any other receiving weapon. There were games he was rarely challenged; and, yet, had a huge impact on the outcome because of how the other 10 players on defense could play the other 10 players on offense.

Top CBs go high every draft, while the top TEs are often not selected until the late-first or early-second.

It's a good topic for discussion but now I am wondering if those punk rockers had a point.

KC last year had 2 starting corners that were a 4th and 7th round pick
Year before of course the Rams
Year before Tampa had 2 second round picks
Year before again KC who this time had an UDFA and a 4th round pick
Year before we finally get a high pick other than Ramsey in Gilmore

I'm not going to pick sides in this debate because I always say these arguments are pointless. Rarely is the first person drafted at a position the guy who turns out the best at that position. Great players fall in the draft ala Kelce, Kupp, Montana, AD99 etc etc etc

Fans get too hung up on media.

Myself I think the drop off after Higbee is great in terms of talent/ability than it is from Ramsey. We have absolute shit behind Higbee with one possible diamond in the rough in this year draft pick Allen. While we have no other Ramsey level CB's on the roster obviously, we do have some decent CB's who are also young. Not saying our secondary is great but it's young and promising and I have higher hopes for it than I do the TE room after Higbee.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Allen2McVay]

KC last year had 2 starting corners that were a 4th and 7th round pick
Year before of course the Rams
Year before Tampa had 2 second round picks
Year before again KC who this time had an UDFA and a 4th round pick
Year before we finally get a high pick other than Ramsey in Gilmore

I'm not going to pick sides in this debate because I always say these arguments are pointless. Rarely is the first person drafted at a position the guy who turns out the best at that position. Great players fall in the draft ala Kelce, Kupp, Montana, AD99 etc etc etc

Fans get too hung up on media.

Myself I think the drop off after Higbee is great in terms of talent/ability than it is from Ramsey. We have absolute shit behind Higbee with one possible diamond in the rough in this year draft pick Allen. While we have no other Ramsey level CB's on the roster obviously, we do have some decent CB's who are also young. Not saying our secondary is great but it's young and promising and I have higher hopes for it than I do the TE room after Higbee.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[OldSchool]

This

Top CBs go high every draft, while the top TEs are often not selected until the late-first or early-second.

Top CB in the draft doesn't mean you're going to win anything. Neither does top drafted TE's honestly but my point is your top drafted CB is a nice thought but doesn't get you a trophy more than a top end TE.

 

[Allen2McVay]

This



Top CB in the draft doesn't mean you're going to win anything. Neither does top drafted TE's honestly but my point is your top drafted CB is a nice thought but doesn't get you a trophy more than a top end TE.

Yeah ... I followed your thought process. I just enjoy posting gifs of the Dude.

 

[Allen2McVay]

KC last year had 2 starting corners that were a 4th and 7th round pick
Year before of course the Rams
Year before Tampa had 2 second round picks
Year before again KC who this time had an UDFA and a 4th round pick
Year before we finally get a high pick other than Ramsey in Gilmore

I'm not going to pick sides in this debate because I always say these arguments are pointless. Rarely is the first person drafted at a position the guy who turns out the best at that position. Great players fall in the draft ala Kelce, Kupp, Montana, AD99 etc etc etc

Fans get too hung up on media.

Myself I think the drop off after Higbee is great in terms of talent/ability than it is from Ramsey. We have absolute shit behind Higbee with one possible diamond in the rough in this year draft pick Allen. While we have no other Ramsey level CB's on the roster obviously, we do have some decent CB's who are also young. Not saying our secondary is great but it's young and promising and I have higher hopes for it than I do the TE room after Higbee.

Just my 2 cents.

AARGH!!! THIS should have been my Dude response to your above post.

 

[dieterbrock]

OK but my point had nothing to do with the 'impact' of moving-on from Ramsey/Floyd compared to moving-on from Higbee.

As to your point, are you saying a top-TE has a greater impact than a top-CB? Don't think I agree with that.

The defense will suffer without Ramsey, however with an improved offense it can help take some pressure off of the D.
Replacing Higbee and minimizing the production from the position will not be improving the offense
Lose 1 of 4 DB's, the other 3 have to pick up the slack. Lose the single TE, there arent others on the field to make up for it.

 

[PARAM]

What makes a guy "a viable replacement"? If he's successful once he takes over the job?

Gaines had pretty much replaced SJD when he was injured? SJD was getting 50 snaps a game, Gaines 25 when SJD was injured. In what world is that "replacing" somebody? Obviously, in the coaches mind SJD needed to be on the field twice as much as Gaines!!! SJD was injured in week 7 and spent week 8 through Feb 11th on IR, so the idea Gaines didn't let him win his job back is fantasy. Did Gaines "win" the job by his play OR by the fact he had another year left on his deal?

We dumped salary in 2023. We have 5 guys at the CB position making waaay less than half of what Ramsey had coming. None of them are Ramsey. But we got to a SB before Ramsey arrived and frankly, he didn't exactly have a stellar game in his SB.

Floyd was a good all around Edge player. But he's not gonna remind anyone of Deacon Jones or Kevin Greene.

They had to cut salary and those two got us damn near under the cap alone.

Maybe somebody will make us forget Leonard Floyd just like he made us forget Dante Fowler. And they don't have to remind us of Deacon or Greene to do it.

Maybe Ernest Jones makes us forget Bobby Wagner?

The thing is, whenever somebody loses a starter....or a star, it's the end of the world until somebody else steps up. And that happens quite often.

I think these guys have shown a propensity for losing guys and replacing them adequately. Sometimes even better. Gotta trust the process.

Higbee had his best year last year. Did Floyd? Ramsey? Wagner?

 

[Allen2McVay]

What makes a guy "a viable replacement"? If he's successful once he takes over the job?

Gaines had pretty much replaced SJD when he was injured? SJD was getting 50 snaps a game, Gaines 25 when SJD was injured. In what world is that "replacing" somebody? Obviously, in the coaches mind SJD needed to be on the field twice as much as Gaines!!! SJD was injured in week 7 and spent week 8 through Feb 11th on IR, so the idea Gaines didn't let him win his job back is fantasy. Did Gaines "win" the job by his play OR by the fact he had another year left on his deal?

We dumped salary in 2023. We have 5 guys at the CB position making waaay less than half of what Ramsey had coming. None of them are Ramsey. But we got to a SB before Ramsey arrived and frankly, he didn't exactly have a stellar game in his SB.

Floyd was a good all around Edge player. But he's not gonna remind anyone of Deacon Jones or Kevin Greene.

They had to cut salary and those two got us damn near under the cap alone.

Maybe somebody will make us forget Leonard Floyd just like he made us forget Dante Fowler. And they don't have to remind us of Deacon or Greene to do it.

Maybe Ernest Jones makes us forget Bobby Wagner?

The thing is, whenever somebody loses a starter....or a star, it's the end of the world until somebody else steps up. And that happens quite often.

I think these guys have shown a propensity for losing guys and replacing them adequately. Sometimes even better. Gotta trust the process.

Higbee had his best year last year. Did Floyd? Ramsey? Wagner?

Kind of think you are rambling here; and have taken a simple comment in several different directions.

Went back to my original comment which was as follows:
"Completely agree (with DieterBrock's post); and expect Higbee to be with the Rams in 2023.
However, getting 'rid of a highly productive player, with no conceivable replacement' is arguably exactly what the Rams did when they moved-on from Ramsey and Floyd, among others."

Consider that to be a pretty straight-forward, objective, honest and accurate statement.

 

[PARAM]

Kind of think you are rambling here; and have taken a simple comment in several different directions.

Went back to my original comment which was as follows:
"Completely agree (with DieterBrock's post); and expect Higbee to be with the Rams in 2023.
However, getting 'rid of a highly productive player, with no conceivable replacement' is arguably exactly what the Rams did when they moved-on from Ramsey and Floyd, among others."

Consider that to be a pretty straight-forward, objective, honest and accurate statement.

I thought we were having a dicussion. I agreed with your original comment. The subsequent comments not so much. It's all good.

 

[fanotodd]

I thought we were having a dicussion. I agreed with your original comment. The subsequent comments not so much. It's all good.

I don’t know if it’s ALL good.
He took a veiled shot at my hair!

 

[Allen2McVay]

I don’t know if it’s ALL good.
He took a veiled shot at my hair!

I did; and I regret that.
That hair really was magnificent.

 

[Allen2McVay]

I thought we were having a dicussion. I agreed with your original comment. The subsequent comments not so much. It's all good.

I have always loved ... "A fan of the horns since the Coliseum had a Roman playing there!!"

 

[dieterbrock]

I have always loved ... "A fan of the horns since the Coliseum had a Roman playing there!!"

I'm still bummed at the "we're not close" comment... It's like that awkward moment when your hand is up for a high five, and get left hanging, with everyone watching.... lol
I think we are all on same page here, at least closer to agreeing than disagreeing.

 

[Allen2McVay]

I'm still bummed at the "we're not close" comment...

I regret that too.
Does this mean I can refer to you as DB?!?

THAT would be Huge!