Goff Trade Up

[OldSchool]

Just throwing it out there for the people that think QBR is a valid stat. Last week Kizer and his 1 TD 1 INT 56.8% comp 232 yard day was higher QBR rating than Goffs 3 TD 0 INT 67.6% comp 355 yard day. Kizer 73.6 Goff 44.1 all because Kizer ran for 1 TD. QBR is complete garbage.

 

[shaunpinney]

Just throwing it out there for the people that think QBR is a valid stat. Last week Kizer and his 1 TD 1 INT 56.8% comp 232 yard day was higher QBR rating than Goffs 3 TD 0 INT 67.6% comp 355 yard day. Kizer 73.6 Goff 44.1 all because Kizer ran for 1 TD. QBR is complete garbage.

Does seem like a pile of bull stat, I'll stick with the stats that we all understand the "W's" against "L's"

 

[kurtfaulk]

Just throwing it out there for the people that think QBR is a valid stat. Last week Kizer and his 1 TD 1 INT 56.8% comp 232 yard day was higher QBR rating than Goffs 3 TD 0 INT 67.6% comp 355 yard day. Kizer 73.6 Goff 44.1 all because Kizer ran for 1 TD. QBR is complete garbage.

It started creeping into mainstream media a few years back but they slowly worked out how crap it was in grading qbs. Only espn use it now. The fuckwits. They wanted to make the krapper and rg3 into the best 2 qbs in the league.

.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Are you being serious right now? Would is appropriate because Goff is thriving right now. But ok, I’ll try again....
Which implies other QB could thrive as well?
That seems to contradict the "These guys aren't robots. And neither are the players surrounding them. And the situations / circumstances of their opponents are not constant." theory
Maybe Goff is the reason the offense is clicking

Huh? Would is appropriate for the other potential QBs when I said the others could? Nice try.

Please explain the contradiction as something being possible encompasses that player AND my so called "theory."

Maybe Goff is the reason the offense is clicking? If so, does that mean that he is the only QB in existence that could do it if given the opportunity which goes back to the original point? Maybe Goff is a fine player and the benefactor of his dream situation. As stated earlier, QBs get too much credit and too much blame in this team sport.

 

[dieterbrock]

Huh? Would is appropriate for the other potential QBs when I said the others could? Nice try.

Please explain the contradiction as something being possible encompasses that player AND my so called "theory."

Maybe Goff is the reason the offense is clicking? If so, does that mean that he is the only QB in existence that could do it if given the opportunity which goes back to the original point? Maybe Goff is a fine player and the benefactor of his dream situation. As stated earlier, QBs get too much credit and too much blame in this team sport.

Nice try?
I’m just trying to figure out what you are saying. Because it’s all so contradictory.
I guess what you are saying is you don’t think the qb makes the offense.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Memphis, if you can’t tell by now that Goff isn’t a “one hit wonder” then...

It’s not that difficult, and oh yeah he’s never going to be a team distraction

You really need to let go here, you’re not looking good

OC LeftCoast, IMO, most one hit wonders didn't look like one hit wonders during their hit seasons. But, my point was that it's really too early to be grading any of these kids definitively because we haven't seen them minus their very desirable circumstances / situations yet (In the Rams case hopefully, we never do).

But, I get it. For some, no is ever going to look good offering critiques or not being overly effusive with praise regarding a team on a board for that team. But, I'm mildly surprised that it can get to the point where one has to argue against something he's never said or even believed. To make sure I wasn't losing my mind, I showed this thread to a professor buddy of mine and he couldn't believe how I was being misread, misrepresented, and jumped on for making a such a vague comment. But, he attributed it to mere fandom.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Nice try?
I’m just trying to figure out what you are saying. Because it’s all so contradictory.
I guess what you are saying is you don’t think the qb makes the offense.

Maybe if you can explain the contradictions it might help.

But, no I don't think the QB makes the offense. He's a very important part, but he isn't the offense as he can't do anything without help. And his results are predicated on that help and what his opponents do or not do.

 

[dieterbrock]

Maybe if you can explain the contradictions it might help.

But, no I don't think the QB makes the offense. He's a very important part, but he isn't the offense as he can't do anything without help. And his results are predicated on that help and what his opponents do or not do.

Which also applies to many other positions.
I’m used to posters under valuing opposition players/qb, but I find it a head scratcher to see under valuing our own. Particularly being the level of success said player is having.

 

[Rmfnlt]

I don't think the QB makes the offense. He's a very important part, but he isn't the offense as he can't do anything without help.

As a general rule, I agree with this (yes, there a maybe a handful of QBs over history that could elevate the offense past mediocrity).

As far as the Rams (and Goff), it's a similar story. Goff suffered from bad coaching, a bad Oline and mediocre receivers last year. Guess what happened.

Goff now had great coaching, a much improved Oline and much better receivers. Guess what's happening.

Had the Rams not made the coaching change and the critical upgrades on the Oline and receiving corps, Goff would still look awful, IMO.

This scenario has happened many times before as well... as a general rule, QBs succeed when:
* The coaching is good
* The surrounding cast is good

Take those away and the QB success is a crap shoot, at best.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Which also applies to many other positions.
I’m used to posters under valuing opposition players/qb, but I find it a head scratcher to see under valuing our own. Particularly being the level of success said player is having.

And that's just it. Typical fandom. Given the hero worship some fans provide towards the position, when things are going well no one wants to see or hear anything that isn't in agreement with said hero worship. So much so as to even when other parts of the offense or staff in the very same organization are praised more than that player, it is deemed as a poster taking a shot at the player as if that player isn't playing well.

The kid is developing and having a fine season, but some it seems as if some only want to see posts as if he's already made it because the team is winning. Again, these QBs get too much credit and too much blame.

 

[dieterbrock]

And that's just it. Typical fandom. Given the hero worship some fans provide towards the position, when things are going well no one wants to see or hear anything that isn't in agreement with said hero worship. So much so as to even when other parts of the offense or staff in the very same organization are praised more than that player, it is deemed as a poster taking a shot at the player as if that player isn't playing well.

The kid is developing and having a fine season, but some it seems as if some only want to see posts as if he's already made it because the team is winning. Again, these QBs get too much credit and too much blame.

So are you saying that he isnt the difference? That he isnt the straw stirring the drink?

 

[Rmfnlt]

So are you saying that he isnt the difference? That he isnt the straw stirring the drink?

He is a contributing factor to the year-to-date success of the 2017 Los Angeles Rams offense.

How's that?

I see where Memphis is going and he has somewhat of a point. It's the sanctification of a player (usually). I don't do that, but many, many do. It's usually the cause of threads that run into the double digits... oh gee, look LOL

If a fan falls in love with a player (lots of times it's the QB, but it can be any position) and...
* The player is doing well: The fan is more likely to attack anyone who's opinion does not align with theirs
* The player is doing poorly: The fan defeds the player, in some cases, to an illogical level

Like I said, I don't fall in love with any Rams player... I like some more than others, but not to the point I'll drag a thread around my neck for days.

I love the Rams... the franchise... and I am very glad they are finally doing well. It's been too damned lomg!!

 

[Ramlock]

And that's just it. Typical fandom. Given the hero worship some fans provide towards the position, when things are going well no one wants to see or hear anything that isn't in agreement with said hero worship. ....... it is deemed as a poster taking a shot at the player as if that player isn't playing well.

The kid is developing and having a fine season, but some it seems as if some only want to see posts as if he's already made it because the team is winning. Again, these QBs get too much credit and too much blame.

Or is it a poster stirring the pot?

 

[dieterbrock]

He is a contributing factor to the year-to-date success of the 2017 Los Angeles Rams offense.

How's that?

I see where Memphis is going and he has somewhat of a point. If the sanctification of a player (usually). I don't do that, but many, many do. It's usually the cause of threads that run into the double digits... oh gee, look LOL

If a fan falls in love with a player (lots of times it's the QB, but it can be any position) and...
* The player is doing well: The fan is more likely to attack anyone who's opinion does not align with theirs
* The player is doing poorly: The fan defeds the player, in some cases, to an illogical level

Like I said, I don't fall in love with any Rams player... I like some more than others, but not to the point I'll drag a thread around my neck for days.

I love the Rams... the franchise... and I am very glad they are finally doing well. It's been too damned lomg!!

This is the best QB play we've had since Bulger, hands down.
We have a new oline, new WR and a new scheme/play calling, all of which has been praised but the QB is merely along for the ride? I dont follow that.
I think the QB does deserve the credit and conversely when things go sideways, the criticism

 

[Rmfnlt]

This is the best QB play we've had since Bulger, hands down.
We have a new oline, new WR and a new scheme/play calling, all of which has been praised but the QB is merely along for the ride? I dont follow that.
I think the QB does deserve the credit and conversely when things go sideways, the criticism

Yeah, it's like I said, he is a contributing factor in the year-to-date success of the 2017 Los Angeles Rams offense.

"Contributing factor".

So, we're on the same page, no?

 

[dieterbrock]

Yeah, it's like I said, he is a contributing factor in the year-to-date success of the 2017 Los Angeles Rams offense.

"Contributing factor".

So, we're on the same page, no?

If Warner was a "contributing factor" in 1999 then sure. I believe he was the X factor that made it work, and I think that's where Goff is today. When he's off, they struggle, when he's on they rock.
The assertion that was made was that Goff was playing in a dream scenario, with the oline, the WR and the scheme.
So is the Oline also playing in a dream scenario with the QB, WR and scheme?

 

[yrba1]

All I can say is, glad we didn't make the same mistake with Goff like we did Bradford: Providing him with the right pieces, coaching, and scheme to succeed.

 

[Rmfnlt]

If Warner was a "contributing factor" in 1999 then sure. I believe he was the X factor that made it work, and I think that's where Goff is today. When he's off, they struggle, when he's on they rock.
The assertion that was made was that Goff was playing in a dream scenario, with the oline, the WR and the scheme.
So is the Oline also playing in a dream scenario with the QB, WR and scheme?

See my post (#289) above.

They all "stir the drink"... the coaches, the Oline, the QB and the receivers.

One of them stinks, they all suffer. And, on a larger scale - even if all of them are in synch but the defense stinks, the team suffers. And, to a somewhat lesser extent, special teams. Any of those units can win a game or lose a game... it takes all the players to perform at a high level to be consistently successful.

This over-reliance on one position seems short-sighted to me. But what do I know? I still think it's a team sport.

I'd say the OLine is playing in a dream scenario in that they are receiving excellent coaching and each of them is performing at a high level. One bad Olineman can ruin the whole thing. Ask DAL about that.

I guess you could say the entire team is playing in a dream scenario.

 

[nighttrain]

I guess you could say the entire team is playing in a dream scenario.

 

[FarNorth]

As a general rule, I agree with this (yes, there a maybe a handful of QBs over history that could elevate the offense past mediocrity).

As far as the Rams (and Goff), it's a similar story. Goff suffered from bad coaching, a bad Oline and mediocre receivers last year. Guess what happened.

Goff now had great coaching, a much improved Oline and much better receivers. Guess what's happening.

Had the Rams not made the coaching change and the critical upgrades on the Oline and receiving corps, Goff would still look awful, IMO.

This scenario has happened many times before as well... as a general rule, QBs succeed when:
* The coaching is good
* The surrounding cast is good

Take those away and the QB success is a crap shoot, at best.

I think that in any case Goff was going to be clearly better in multiple ways this year as a result of all the work he put in. It is easy to attribute his development to the situation around him, but imo he was highly motivated on his own to improve and would have done so irrespective of circumstances. But agree that results also depend on coaching, oline, playmakers, etc. In an alternate universe Goff could have been a promising qb in a bad offense.