Fisher has had his fill of offside penalties/PD

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RamBill

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Fisher has had his fill of offside penalties
• By Jim Thomas

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_c1ea3675-a15d-5bba-b33d-c2b329e62b14.html

Since the hiring of coach Jeff Fisher in 2012, an attacking Rams defense has spent a lot of time on the other side of the line of scrimmage.

The team’s 172 sacks since the start of the 2012 season is a league high.

This season, the Rams are tied for second in sacks with 27.

Throw in tackles for loss — against the run or after a completed pass (on a screen, for example) — and the St. Louis defense has come up with 70 negative plays, trailing only Denver and Detroit in that category, with 71 apiece.

“We’re a ‘get-off’ unit,” defensive tackle Michael Brockers said. “We want to get in the backfield, we want to destroy stuff.”

Trouble is, the Rams have been “getting off” too quickly lately — much to Fisher’s chagrin. In last week’s 21-18 overtime loss at Minnesota, the Rams’ defense was flagged five times either for being offside or for a neutral zone infraction.

They did so twice against San Francisco two Sundays ago and five times on Oct. 25 against Cleveland. That’s 12 times in three games. Such mistakes are easy enough to overlook after a victory, as was the case against the Browns and 49ers.

But then came Minnesota. Three of those penalties came in the first quarter:

• An offside penalty against Brockers on Minnesota’s first possession of the day gave the Vikings a first down on a field goal drive.

• A neutral zone infraction against Brockers, followed by an offside flag against backup defensive tackle Nick Fairley helped push Minnesota along on an 80-yard touchdown drive on the Vikings’ second series.

“It’s hard to play penalty free, but I think as a defense we should know that people are trying to keep us from rushing the passer,” Brockers said. “And trying to keep us from getting in the backfield. So they’re gonna hard-count us. We have to look at that, and learn from it, and just get better from it.”

In the second half, veteran defensive end William Hayes was flagged twice for being offside. Neither penalty was part of a scoring drive, but both came with the Vikings up 18-15 and helped them control the clock at a time when the Rams were playing catch-up.

“I generally don’t jump too often,” Hayes said. “They were able to get the best of me last week. So hopefully I’m gonna fix it up this week and we don’t have an issue any more.”

Fisher can only hope so. In his most animated press conference since coming to St. Louis, Fisher got especially worked up Monday on the topic of those defensive offside penalties.

He brought up the topic himself when stating that he wasn’t bothered by assertions of dirty play by his teams.

“What bothers me right now is the stuff before and after the whistle,” Fisher said, referring to penalties. “Those are the things that bother me, namely defensive offside. That’s something I gotta get fixed.

“We’ve had 12 defensive offsides in three games and that is too many. It doesn’t win games for you, so we gotta get that fixed.”

When asked just how he plans on fixing it, Fisher almost came unhinged.

“I can’t give — I’m not going to share it,” he replied. “But we’re going to get it fixed.”

Then, with his voice rising almost to a shout, he added: “I’ll back ’em off. I’ll back ’em. They can line up three yards off the ball. We’ll get a running start after the ball’s snapped. But I’m gonna figure out a way to eliminate defensive offsides.”

Fisher actually backed up from the podium, providing a visual of how the players would be backed off the line of scrimmage.

The Rams have a league-high 12 defensive offside penalties through eight games this season. Denver and Miami are next with 11 apiece, but otherwise the Rams are way ahead of the pack. No other team has more than seven such penalties, and 20 teams have four or fewer.

On five other occasions, the Rams have been flagged for neutral zone infractions, the second-worst total in the league to Tampa Bay’s eight.

Put the two totals together and the Rams have either jumped offside or lined up offside a league-worst 17 times on defense this season.

“Trust me, Gregg (Williams) has harped on it for weeks,” linebacker James Laurinaitis said, referring to the team’s defensive coordinator. “This is not something that he just started talking about Monday. This has been something that he’s been harping on for a while. The head coach has harped on it for a while.”

As far back as Green Bay in early October, Fisher periodically blew an air horn at practice, trying to startle the defense into jumping offside. He even blew the air horn early in the morning that week during a defensive team meeting to get his point across.

“It’s a very fine line,” Laurinaitis said. “Teams that usually lead the NFL in sacks usually have a lot of offside penalties. And teams at the bottom (in sacks) have few.

“But we can’t be naive and think it’s not a problem. Whenever you give offenses first-and-5 and free plays, it’s a bad deal. So we gotta figure it out. I’m sure Coach (Fisher) has a plan.”

And probably not one that includes lining up three yards off the line of scrimmage.
 

Rmfnlt

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Shoot, we'll fix that!!
:LOL:

Interesting how animated he got over these self-inflicted DEFENSIVE penalties.

I don't recall him ever getting this upset over self-inflicted OFFENSIVE penalties.
 
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RamDino

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Like Brokers said... they like to get in the backfield. They'll have a few off-sides called, but they're still playing great.
 

Rmfnlt

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Like Brokers said... they like to get in the backfield. They'll have a few off-sides called, but they're still playing great.
Ah, yes... the age old discussion regarding penalties... do they really matter or not? There's no correlation to winning/losing and penalties, right?

I always come back to the same thing... if there is no correlation, why do these head coaches get so upset by them?

In this case, they are happening because of aggressive play... why is Fisher so upset? You think he believes they cost him this game? If not, why the outrage?

Food for thought...
 

LACHAMP46

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meh, more concerned about the run defense....Defense has balled out for 2 months...Fix the offense.
 

DaveFan'51

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“We’re a ‘get-off’ unit,” defensive tackle Michael Brockers said. “We want to get in the backfield, we want to destroy stuff.”
This was the basic attitude of the 'Fearsome-Foursome' according to Deacon Jones!! I've heard him say something like this on numerous occasions!(y);)
 

RedRam

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Don't move until the ball does. Besides, you can see faster than you can hear.
 

MrMotes

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Like Brokers said... they like to get in the backfield. They'll have a few off-sides called, but they're still playing great.

Bingo.

We're the 5th best defense in the NFL by yards, 6th best by points and 2nd by offensive points per game allowed.

Judge your HC but what he does, not what by he says to the press...
 

Rmfnlt

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Judge your HC but what he does, not what by he says to the press...

So, this was for show?

When asked just how he plans on fixing it, Fisher almost came unhinged.

“I can’t give — I’m not going to share it,” he replied. “But we’re going to get it fixed.”

Then, with his voice rising almost to a shout, he added: “I’ll back ’em off. I’ll back ’em. They can line up three yards off the ball. We’ll get a running start after the ball’s snapped. But I’m gonna figure out a way to eliminate defensive offsides.”
 

Rmfnlt

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Fisher's Rams have been at or near the top in penalties every single year.

So yeah, actions over words for me...
My... you do like to go back and forth with me... :sneaky:

A lot of times, I buy into the "coach speak" thing... but he was definitely more demonstrative about this.

So, regardless of fan theories, I'll take his word on this one... I think those penalties are bothering him.

Now, the more interesting question is: Why?
 

Rams43

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Here's my take...

There are penalties of aggression and there are penalties that are stupid self inflicted wounds.

The former are penalties that Fisher can live with. He knows that they are a byproduct of an aggressive D.

The latter are penalties that no HC can abide. False starts, lining up offsides, jumping offsides, illegal formation, etc.

I kinda understand the thought process. As a fan I just shrug when seeing the former.

But I jump up and scream when seeing the latter.
 

MrMotes

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Offsides is often a penalty of aggression, you want to get the best jump you can, sometimes it's too good...
 

RamFan503

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Ah, yes... the age old discussion regarding penalties... do they really matter or not? There's no correlation to winning/losing and penalties, right?

I always come back to the same thing... if there is no correlation, why do these head coaches get so upset by them?

In this case, they are happening because of aggressive play... why is Fisher so upset? You think he believes they cost him this game? If not, why the outrage?

Food for thought...
Well I think outrage is a little strong. Of course you want to minimize these penalties. But as JL said, teams that get in the backfield have them. Teams that don't - don't. The Seahawks led the league in penalties when they won the Superbowl. They also were a defense that played in the other team's backfield. A half step slower and you are not playing in that backfield.

Get better at not committing those penalties? Sure. At the price of letting the O-line get a step on you? No thanks.
 

DR RAM

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Stop lining up in the neutral zone. I see other teams do it, and get away with it, but we don't. I would like to see that change. I know we get revved up when we have a team pinned, but we can't jump offsides in those situations, just as we can't commit a penalty when our offense is in the redzone. Those are big no, no's.
 
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Rmfnlt

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Well I think outrage is a little strong.

Granted... let's say very upset.

And your logic makes sense.. it's the foundation for why some fans point to some of the league's best teams (you mention the poster child Seahawks) committing the most penalties.

So, why is Fisher this upset if (as the logic goes as I understand it) if they commit some penalties to further the greater good (getting in the backfield as often as possible)?

If committing five off-sides penalties results in 10 sacks because you didn't try to hold them back, isn't that what he wants? (isn't that the logic? The penalties were worth it?)

BTW... the current league leaders in penalty yards:
Buffalo (5-4)
Tampa Bay (3-5)
New Orleans (4-5)
Cleveland (2-7)
St. Louis (4-4)
 

RamFan503

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So, why is Fisher this upset if (as the logic goes as I understand it) if they commit some penalties to further the greater good (getting in the backfield as often as possible)?
Can't answer that. But I would be upset at the lining up in the neutral zone infractions if I were him. That is just sloppy. He may also be seeing some that don't equate to aggressive play as much as lack of discipline.
 

Rmfnlt

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Can't answer that. But I would be upset at the lining up in the neutral zone infractions if I were him. That is just sloppy. He may also be seeing some that don't equate to aggressive play as much as lack of discipline.
OK... please don't take this as being argumentative.

But, if I understand the theory that has been presented to me over the years (not only on this board but others)... the penalties are worth it.

In this specific case, if they "get away" with two neutral zone infractions that result in two sacks (because of the advantage), it was worth it.

And, to make a fuss aver those types of penalties causes the players to hesitate and hold back, which reduces/eliminates the advantage.

In simple terms:
Reduce/eliminate the penalties = reduce/eliminate the aggression (advantage)

"Aggression penalties" are part of gaining a competitive edge.

Yet, Fisher is upset... that's the part that I'm struggling with.. oh well, he's a pretty hard read... but, in this case, he seemed pretty sincere... :ROFLMAO: