Brian Thomas on the board at 19 and Bills calling

[Merlin]

Not in a bunch it's just funny how this kind of thing always turns around.

People cite PFF as a credible source.
Somebody doubts PFF gets called out for it.
That person cites PFF as a source.
People doubt PFF.

Shit like this happens so much it's completely comical. In the end if somebody likes a player they'll use PFF as validation. If they don't it doesn't matter what PFF says because they don't like the player he has to be bad regardless of PFF. It happens with things other than PFF too just using it because it's in the current discussion.

We all do these things. No big deal. We're fans. There's a choice few on every board who think they're more than that and take their opinions a bit too seriously, but is that worse than acting like you're the one eyed man in the land of the blind because you realize the comedy of what we're doing.

It's ridiculous and we're operating in the dark half the time on everything. But it's fun to share it all with others who can't get enough football.

 

[OldSchool]

We all do these things. No big deal. We're fans. There's a choice few on every board who think they're more than that and take their opinions a bit too seriously, but is that worse than acting like you're the one eyed man in the land of the blind because you realize the comedy of what we're doing.

It's ridiculous and we're operating in the dark half the time on everything. But it's fun to share it all with others who can't get enough football.

I've said at least twice now I find it funny and also said I do it as well I'm not trying to be better than anybody else just pointing out my flaws as much as laughing at who this season goes down every single year. Pretty sure about a dozen times I've mentioned how this time of year is aptly named the silly season If you can't laugh at stuff like this that's up to you. I enjoy a good laugh and we get several months of it right now.

I'll continue to enjoy reading people say this guys good for x y and z reasons. Then turn around and say another is not good in spite of the same reasons supporting both players.

Enjoy it I certainly do

 

[Badfinger]

That would be nice ... Pearsall and Jackson, instead of Walker and King.

However, could we make a small adjustment; and draft the WR in Round Two (Roman Wilson), and the Edge in Round Three (Marshawn Kneeland). Appreciate it.

I dunno about Wilson, may be a little on the small side, and I think we've all had enough of that. On Kneeland, I may be missing something, but he doesn't seem that athletic to me, seems a little stiff.

 

[Merlin]

I've said at least twice now I find it funny and also said I do it as well I'm not trying to be better than anybody else just pointing out my flaws as much as laughing at who this season goes down every single year. Pretty sure about a dozen times I've mentioned how this time of year is aptly named the silly season If you can't laugh at stuff like this that's up to you. I enjoy a good laugh and we get several months of it right now.

I'll continue to enjoy reading people say this guys good for x y and z reasons. Then turn around and say another is not good in spite of the same reasons supporting both players.

Enjoy it I certainly do

I absolutely enjoy it. But I'm not so sure you do. Complaining about it sort of belies what you're saying there matey.

Not that it matters. Just thought I'd throw that out there for consideration.

 

[muggmeister]

Sure they can have the 19th pick, we'll take the 28th AND Ed Oliver or go they can go fuck themselves.

 

[RamDino]

Has everyone forgot about Cooper DeJean? I'm not a huge proponent of taking him at #19, but I wonder what the Rams think of him. The kid seems to produce big time, and the Rams could use a stud in the secondary. He might be there at #19 and we know McSnead would pay mightily for a great corner. Especially if the 3 top Edges or the top 2 DT are gone (and Quinyon Mitchell).

 

[OldSchool]

I absolutely enjoy it. But I'm not so sure you do. Complaining about it sort of belies what you're saying there matey.

Not that it matters. Just thought I'd throw that out there for consideration.

I'll let you go on with the psycho analyzing me and I'll enjoy my absolute favorite time of year.

NFL draft and free agency
Premiere League is down to the last 7 or 8 games of the year depending on the team
NHL is in the same spot
Baseball is just getting going

There is so much sports activity going on how can a sports nerd not enjoy it This is a great time to be a nerd and I'm enjoying the heck out of it!

Actually an edit
Other than just sneezing popcorn all over my monitor it's been a great day. This is gonna be fun to clean up

 

[dang]

Not in a bunch it's just funny how this kind of thing always turns around.

People cite PFF as a credible source.
Somebody doubts PFF gets called out for it.
That person cites PFF as a source.
People doubt PFF.

Shit like this happens so much it's completely comical. In the end if somebody likes a player they'll use PFF as validation. If they don't it doesn't matter what PFF says because they don't like the player he has to be bad regardless of PFF. It happens with things other than PFF too just using it because it's in the current discussion.

First. Take a deep breath. We are only seeking information about Robinson that goes beyond the obvious stats (tackles, sacks, TFLs, QBhits, FF/FR). It’s a legitimate inquiry.

Second. Please share any information you have about Robinson’s talents beyond the aforementioned stats. There are those (like me) that merely read player assessments and stats to get a feel for a player. And there are those that have more first hand knowledge of a players attributes.

 

[OldSchool]

First. Take a deep breath. We are only seeking information about Robinson that goes beyond the obvious stats (tackles, sacks, TFLs, QBhits, FF/FR). It’s a legitimate inquiry.

Second. Please share any information you have about Robinson’s talents beyond the aforementioned stats. There are those (like me) that merely read player assessments and stats to get a feel for a player. And there are those that have more first hand knowledge of a players attributes.

No need for a deep breath I'm golden

How about read that tweet/x whatever we call it now I guess where PFF had him rated very highly. Also that same tweet had his pass rush win rate exceedingly high. Also there was a post today about Greg Cosell's player ratings. He's listed on there along with a whole lot of other players with all their strengths and weaknesses and summarized with his opinions on the players future. All stuff posted tonight.

I do find it funny that a couple of you are assuming I'm having a bad day or bad time in this thread. All I'm doing is enjoying the draft and reading more of this good info posted. I laugh at our tendency to fall back to confirmation bias. And yes I have continually put myself in there and no I'm not mad or upset or angry or any of that at other people doing it or myself for doing it. We all do it and if you can't laugh at yourself you're in for a bad day. So again I'll let the fan forum psychologists do their thing. I enjoy this time of year toooooo much to worry about it.

But yeah check out that tweet and actually that guys other tweets because he posts similar analysis and graphs for other positions. And along with a lot of other things that post of Cosell's player reviews is a great resource. Too often we look at what is said here (myself included) and take that for gospel. There are people who honestly make things up and it's unfortunate. We'll read somebody here call a player lazy. Then you go and read actual analysis on the player and they talk about how he's hard working an an example to his teammates. Take me I do not want anything to do with Brock Bowers. No logical reason since he's a phenomenal player one of the best TE we've seen in the draft in a very long time if not ever. But something about the kid I just do not like he seems to me like he'll be an ego maniac and lazy and never realize all that talent in the NFL. No logical reason for it I just don't like the guy no idea why but I can't shake it. I don't expect other people to feel the way I do and I laugh at myself for feeling this way but it's there.

 

[dieterbrock]

Not in a bunch it's just funny how this kind of thing always turns around.

People cite PFF as a credible source.
Somebody doubts PFF gets called out for it.
That person cites PFF as a source.
People doubt PFF.

Shit like this happens so much it's completely comical. In the end if somebody likes a player they'll use PFF as validation. If they don't it doesn't matter what PFF says because they don't like the player he has to be bad regardless of PFF. It happens with things other than PFF too just using it because it's in the current discussion.

Pff is an opinion
Statistics are at least measurable.
It’s completely fair to evaluate a pass rusher by his sacks & tfl, which are actual stats.
And his stats, or production based on actual stats, is not impressive.
You are the one who referred to that as a myth, but can only counter with PFF which is made up.
Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

[dieterbrock]

First. Take a deep breath. We are only seeking information about Robinson that goes beyond the obvious stats (tackles, sacks, TFLs, QBhits, FF/FR). It’s a legitimate inquiry.

Second. Please share any information you have about Robinson’s talents beyond the aforementioned stats. There are those (like me) that merely read player assessments and stats to get a feel for a player. And there are those that have more first hand knowledge of a players attributes.

Stats are a myth apparently, but PFF is real

 

[DzRams]

Pff is an opinion
Statistics are at least measurable.
It’s completely fair to evaluate a pass rusher by his sacks & tfl, which are actual stats.
And his stats, or production based on actual stats, is not impressive.
You are the one who referred to that as a myth, but can only counter with PFF which is made up.
Hypocrisy at its finest.

You're right that PFF grading is a proprietary metric which is completely an opinion.

But some of the stuff they measure such as pass rush win rate are stats b/c they can be measured. I think ESPN has the same PSWR stat. PFF also counts run stops, run stop rate, and things like that. Not everything they do is unmeasurable.

 

[dieterbrock]

You're right that PFF grading is a proprietary metric which is completely an opinion.

But some of the stuff they measure such as pass rush win rate are stats b/c they can be measured. I think ESPN has the same PSWR stat. PFF also counts run stops, run stop rate, and things like that. Not everything they do is unmeasurable.

Pass rush win rate is still an analytical stat based on a determined base line (2.5 seconds)
At the end of the day all that’s being said, and questioned is for a guy expected to rush the passer, make big plays, why did he have such little production in sacks/tackles/tfl? Which is what he’ll be measured on in the nfl

 

[DzRams]

Pass rush win rate is still an analytical stat based on a determined base line (2.5 seconds)
At the end of the day all that’s being said, and questioned is for a guy expected to rush the passer, make big plays, why did he have such little production in sacks/tackles/tfl? Which is what he’ll be measured on in the nfl

I'm not a Chop proponent so I have no dog in this fight. I'm just pointing out what the people asking for stats could be missing. Here you ask about sacks, tackles, and TFL. Those are great; I'm concerned about the lack of those too, but I wonder if you're discounting hurries in pure pass-rush metrics?

PFF measures the pure pass-rush metrics of sacks/hits/hurries as Total Pressures.

This is Chop's 2023 versus Dallas Turners:

Chop: 303 snaps, 26 Total Pressures = 8.58% pressure rate
Turner: 647 snaps, 55 Total Pressures = 8.50% pressure rate

There's not a huge difference there.

 

[Ramhusker]

No need for a deep breath I'm golden

How about read that tweet/x whatever we call it now I guess where PFF had him rated very highly. Also that same tweet had his pass rush win rate exceedingly high. Also there was a post today about Greg Cosell's player ratings. He's listed on there along with a whole lot of other players with all their strengths and weaknesses and summarized with his opinions on the players future. All stuff posted tonight.

I do find it funny that a couple of you are assuming I'm having a bad day or bad time in this thread. All I'm doing is enjoying the draft and reading more of this good info posted. I laugh at our tendency to fall back to confirmation bias. And yes I have continually put myself in there and no I'm not mad or upset or angry or any of that at other people doing it or myself for doing it. We all do it and if you can't laugh at yourself you're in for a bad day. So again I'll let the fan forum psychologists do their thing. I enjoy this time of year toooooo much to worry about it.

But yeah check out that tweet and actually that guys other tweets because he posts similar analysis and graphs for other positions. And along with a lot of other things that post of Cosell's player reviews is a great resource. Too often we look at what is said here (myself included) and take that for gospel. There are people who honestly make things up and it's unfortunate. We'll read somebody here call a player lazy. Then you go and read actual analysis on the player and they talk about how he's hard working an an example to his teammates. Take me I do not want anything to do with Brock Bowers. No logical reason since he's a phenomenal player one of the best TE we've seen in the draft in a very long time if not ever. But something about the kid I just do not like he seems to me like he'll be an ego maniac and lazy and never realize all that talent in the NFL. No logical reason for it I just don't like the guy no idea why but I can't shake it. I don't expect other people to feel the way I do and I laugh at myself for feeling this way but it's there.

I hear ya. I’ve got my doubts about Penix just from his body language and facial expressions. I can’t explain it but he seems to get a little dramatic. Seems like he’s getting little dings that throw him off his game. And he’ll probably be an MVP someday. Something bugs me with Trice too but many here feel he might be a steal. Everybody has there own P’s; Perspective, Priorities, Price, and Prerogative.

 

[OnceARam]

Has everyone forgot about Cooper DeJean? I'm not a huge proponent of taking him at #19, but I wonder what the Rams think of him. The kid seems to produce big time, and the Rams could use a stud in the secondary. He might be there at #19 and we know McSnead would pay mightily for a great corner. Especially if the 3 top Edges or the top 2 DT are gone (and Quinyon Mitchell).

I think he projects more as a Safety given that he's not that fast. He has a workout coming up so we will see how he looks after a broken fibula. We could probably trade down and still get him if thats our target. I am still a proponent of trading up for a Edge or down for more ammo.

 

[dieterbrock]

I'm not a Chop proponent so I have no dog in this fight. I'm just pointing out what the people asking for stats could be missing. Here you ask about sacks, tackles, and TFL. Those are great; I'm concerned about the lack of those too, but I wonder if you're discounting hurries in pure pass-rush metrics?

PFF measures the pure pass-rush metrics of sacks/hits/hurries as Total Pressures.

This is Chop's 2023 versus Dallas Turners:

Chop: 303 snaps, 26 Total Pressures = 8.58% pressure rate
Turner: 647 snaps, 55 Total Pressures = 8.50% pressure rate

There's not a huge difference there.

sure for a 3rd round pick, going by analytics makes sense.
For a 1st? The stats are not showing a guy that does in fact make tackles or sack the qb
Gets pressure but can’t get the sack? Consistently?
Verse and Latu statistically blow his numbers away, and show the production of a 1st rounder.
In any event, the argument here has never really been about Chop, it’s more about whether it’s legit to question his lack of actual results.
11.5 sacks in 30 career games surely lends itself to questioning why he’s so highly regarded.
Trusting analytics over that lack of results is a different debate, and frankly not one I’m invested in.

 

[dang]

I'm not a Chop proponent so I have no dog in this fight. I'm just pointing out what the people asking for stats could be missing. Here you ask about sacks, tackles, and TFL. Those are great; I'm concerned about the lack of those too, but I wonder if you're discounting hurries in pure pass-rush metrics?

PFF measures the pure pass-rush metrics of sacks/hits/hurries as Total Pressures.

This is Chop's 2023 versus Dallas Turners:

Chop: 303 snaps, 26 Total Pressures = 8.58% pressure rate
Turner: 647 snaps, 55 Total Pressures = 8.50% pressure rate

There's not a huge difference there.

Finally. Something to chew on. Chop only had 303 snaps. Was Chop more of a situational player? Was he hurt and played less as a result? I’m hungry for info beyond his (dare I say anemic tackles/sacks/qb hits/tfl/ff/fr) 2023 stats.

 

[Allen2McVay]

Finally. Something to chew on. Chop only had 303 snaps. Was Chop more of a situational player? Was he hurt and played less as a result? I’m hungry for info beyond his (dare I say anemic tackles/sacks/qb hits/tfl/ff/fr) 2023 stats.

He was injured in the Ohio State game and missed some time. There's plenty of information out there.

 

[PhillyRam]

sure for a 3rd round pick, going by analytics makes sense.
For a 1st? The stats are not showing a guy that does in fact make tackles or sack the qb
Gets pressure but can’t get the sack? Consistently?
Verse and Latu statistically blow his numbers away, and show the production of a 1st rounder.
In any event, the argument here has never really been about Chop, it’s more about whether it’s legit to question his lack of actual results.
11.5 sacks in 30 career games surely lends itself to questioning why he’s so highly regarded.
Trusting analytics over that lack of results is a different debate, and frankly not one I’m invested in.

I could argue that the Big Ten is more of a running league and generally cranks out NFL caliber OL at a higher rate than most conferences, even the SEC, outside of Georgia & Bama. And Turner wasn't playing against his Alabama teammates in games.

So Robinson might have been going against better competition and with fewer chances to rush the passer.