About our Linebackers

[PressureD41]

View: https://youtu.be/NUwJb600aE8?t=3


sorry for the poor vid quality.. but perhaps a good thump'n ILB would have helped on this play IDK? but man did our NT got handled on this play

Tree got pushed back. Sorry look like a high schooler on that play. He needs a nose Tackle or we get these kind of plays weekly

 

[RedRam]

A solid, run stuffing NT would be huge for Tree and Barron. You can't teach the speed those two have. Give them a little more room by keeping O-linemen off of them and they'll be fine. They're tackling machines. My biggest concern with them right now is staying healthy.

 

[shovelpass]

View: https://youtu.be/NUwJb600aE8?t=3


sorry for the poor vid quality.. but perhaps a good thump'n ILB would have helped on this play IDK? but man did our NT got handled on this play

Tree got pushed back. Sorry look like a high schooler on that play. He needs a nose Tackle or we get these kind of plays weekly

Not having a defender in the middle at all was the issue. Tree is on the very left edge, even if he blew his man up he would be nowhere near the RB. Also it looks like Tree is reading the play as the blocker approaches, he does get pushed back a little but he also stopped his attack and pushes off the blocker to get to the ball. Barron is the only 2nd level defender and chose the wrong gap, and he runs directly into a blocker . Having a true NT would help though, it doesn't happen often that they leave only 1 LB to defend the middle.

 

[Ram65]

Not having a defender in the middle at all was the issue. Tree is on the very left edge, even if he blew his man up he would be nowhere near the RB. Also it looks like Tree is reading the play as the blocker approaches, he does get pushed back a little but he also stopped his attack and pushes off the blocker to get to the ball. Barron is the only 2nd level defender and chose the wrong gap, and he runs directly into a blocker . Having a true NT would help though, it doesn't happen often that they leave only 1 LB to defend the middle.

+1

 

[Dxmissile]

No surprise coming from me but Quinn has done nothing all season . I don't care how much he gets paid because even if it was league minimum it would be too much . He completely runs himself out of the play and never has contain .
Yeah he ran down Murray only because he left a hole that I could've run through. He had a chance to make a play on Keenum yesterday but instead of tackling him he swiped at the ball . It would have to drive the coaches crazy to watch the game film on him because it's like groundhog day . Go back and re watch the game like I do and he's either on the ground or 5 yards behind the QB . He's either completely washed up or has lost his desire to play . I keep hoping it changes but the past two years and 10 games this year say otherwise. JMHO

Yeah he ran down Murray only because he left a hole that I could've run through

Watch that play again that was Barwin Quinn was as on the other side of the line. I think people just want to bag on Quinn and start assuming that it MUST be him when it’s not

 

[Tano]

I keep wondering if we get a Tree Trunk for a NT and move Ogletree to the left outside LB and get a physical middle linebacker might be the best way to go. Both Ogletree and Barren make great plays and would hate to lose them but the Rams definitely need more beef in the middle.

However, I am not sure if Ogletree would be a good pass rusher from the outside. It would definitely free him up to make better plays on runs though. Maybe move him inside to replace the physical inside linebacker on passing downs and put in a more pass rushing specialist on the outside.

Of course this is just speculation for next year.

 

[UKram]

No surprise coming from me but Quinn has done nothing all season . I don't care how much he gets paid because even if it was league minimum it would be too much . He completely runs himself out of the play and never has contain .
Yeah he ran down Murray only because he left a hole that I could've run through. He had a chance to make a play on Keenum yesterday but instead of tackling him he swiped at the ball . It would have to drive the coaches crazy to watch the game film on him because it's like groundhog day . Go back and re watch the game like I do and he's either on the ground or 5 yards behind the QB . He's either completely washed up or has lost his desire to play . I keep hoping it changes but the past two years and 10 games this year say otherwise. JMHO

im gonna watch every defensive play on the all 22 on gamepass when its up up im gonna count how many snaps quinn had and out of that may how many he ended up on the floor ...running past the QB or totally took himself out the game

so should be interesting

 

[gabriel18]

Watch that play again that was Barwin Quinn was as on the other side of the line. I think people just want to bag on Quinn and start assuming that it MUST be him when it’s not

I believe his stats speak for themselves.
If he would make one big play a game I could see but he's out of almost every play.

 

[Dxmissile]

I believe his stats speak for themselves.
If he would make one big play a game I could see but he's out of almost every play.

He made plenty big plays in the last game and it would hVe been more if there was more penetration from the line. I’m not saying he’s been great but he’s been a lot better then people want to admit.

I think he has been playing good for a guy that’s learning a new defense and a new position

 

[Ramstien]

I thought Walker was doing good at NT against the run this season. However, I did not see him in there that I can recall Sunday anyone know why.

 

[8to12]

Most of the big runs they have given up are because of the D line being too aggressve and running past the play .

AND..... the LB'ers are no where to be found. They are inconsistent. On some plays they look like Pro-Bowlers, on others, they look like rookies.

 

[Soul Surfer]

They are inconsistent. On some plays they look like Pro-Bowlers, on others, they look like rookies.

And it's a little too far in the season to have that.
Early on, the switch to the 3-4 could have been the reason but now it's unacceptable.

 

[Zero]

@Merlin @OldSchool
Just a thought.We just locked up Alec Ogletree who seems to be struggling
a bit at the new position.I know we need a big plugger in front,but
I am not so sure they signed him with the thought of a move to OLB.
He can be downright nasty off the edge and able to cover adequate
for the position.Thoughts?

 

[Zaphod]

And it's a little too far in the season to have that.
Early on, the switch to the 3-4 could have been the reason but now it's unacceptable.

Which is exactly why I expect to see further investment into the linebacker position in the off season.

 

[Akrasian]

I think they go for a big nose tackle - Brockers has been good as a 3-4 DE. It depends on who is available, but using the first on a NT would make a big difference to the run defense.

 

[BonifayRam]

Which is exactly why I expect to see further investment into the linebacker position in the off season.

I would expect investments too but would they be more likely through the 2018 & 2019 drafts or are you thinking that the Rams Org would continue to pay mega high $$$ FA LB'er contracts ?

Ram LB'ers in 2018 cap hits
Rob Quinn $12,399,770 million
Alec Ogletree $11,600,000 million
Mark Barron $10,000,000 million

Over 34 million already tied up in 3 of the 4 starters. When you are 28th in the NFL currently in run defense looks like the Rams should be getting better dividends for their investments.

I think they go for a big nose tackle - Brockers has been good as a 3-4 DE. It depends on who is available, but using the first on a NT would make a big difference to the run defense.

Brockers does seem to be much more effective as the DE in the Wade's "D". However as for now Brockers may be moved back to the NT post to see if they can plug the dam break in run defense. Wade does have some good DE's like Westbrooks, Morgan Fox & Tanzel Smart to utilize in place of Brockers.

NT Walker saw a good amount of snaps against the Vikings but he was handled with ease as was Westbrooks. I recall discussions back in TC & pre season where it was discussed that Wade prefers smaller NT penetrators. But with Barron & Ogletree Wade appears to rethink this.

 

[LesBaker]

That being said yes Quinn needs to go, he is a good rotation player but not a starting olb. Barwin we need to resign, he has been playing well and adds leadership .

Quinn is not worth retaining and IMO he hasn't been very good at all.

Sorry, you need a pass rushing 3-4 OLB.

Having another one, since I think AO already IS one, would be a huge help. One thing that makes a 3-4 hard to play if the QB has to guess where the pressure is going to be concentrated. So yeah adding one would really help the front 7 tremendously.

Quinn takes the longest routes to the QB I've ever sen

I agree, he has always looped around to rush the passer, it's his only move. And when he was healthy and had Long on the other side of the DL helping him it worked. Now he isn't what he used to be and the fact that he has really one move is making him unproductive. He's taking a wider arc IMO because he isn't as strong or as fast so he can't get past a guy while pushing him off. He's been not that difficult to defend the last few seasons. Tackles just push him out of the play when he turns up the field. He literally disappears off of your TV screen often.

 

[Zaphod]

I would expect investments too but would they be more likely through the 2018 & 2019 drafts or are you thinking that the Rams Org would continue to pay mega high $$$ FA LB'er contracts ?

Ram LB'ers in 2018 cap hits
Rob Quinn $12,399,770 million
Alec Ogletree $11,600,000 million
Mark Barron $10,000,000 million

Over 34 million already tied up in 3 of the 4 starters. When you are 28th in the NFL currently in run defense looks like the Rams should be getting better dividends for their investments.
Brockers does seem to be much more effective as the DE in the Wade's "D". However as for now Brockers may be moved back to the NT post to see if they can plug the dam break in run defense. Wade does have some good DE's like Westbrooks, Morgan Fox & Tanzel Smart to utilize in place of Brockers.

Honestly, I think you're going to see some players cut, and it's not that I think they're bad players but casualties of switching defensive schemes. People keep talking about the run defense, but my guess is that this team will continue to prioritize stopping the pass.

So in that light, I expect to see them prioritize the corner position, because we need corners that play man. After that it's pressure, so the edge rushing OLB will be a priority. So it's true that Ogletree isn't great at shedding blocks, he's probably not your guy there, so I guess it's between him and Barron as a player you keep for the middle? Barron is better at defending the pass, and he just adjusts to whatever role he's given so you know who I'd pick if there's a choice, but I think it's possible they keep both and just find a replacement for Quinn, upgrading at nose tackle and keeping Brockers on the offense's strong side. If you do it right, you could get an effective bull rush that would give our offense time to put points on the board.

All that said, what do I know, because I expected more draft investment at corner in the last draft

 

[Mackeyser]

At this point they need to consider moving Brockers back to nose guard.

They manhandled us up the middle when the game really counted.

I respectfully disagree. I think we found a gem in Brockers as a 3-4 DE. He's been outstanding. The only reason Donald isn't dominating like JJ Watt was is that we a) aren't being as dynamic with his positioning and b) we don't have that NT so Donald has to stay in either the 3, 4 or 5 hole. You almost never see him at the 7 or wide 9 like Watt is sometimes placed.

We need a true fat-ass hogmolley of a 3-4 NT. A guy that can't be moved when he gets double-teamed and can push the pocket and clog the A gaps.

A Tony Siragusa/Dontari Poe type.

In the past, those types were undervalued, but there's a lot more 3-4s being run.... in large part because college is sending fewer legit 4-3 DEs to the league and there are a plethora of SPARQ guys who can light up both OLB and ILB positions so it's easier to restock most positions on a 3-4, whether the preference is for zone or man. Not that Von Miller's grow on trees, but there are more OLB pure pass rushers than complete run/pass 4-3 DEs.

Anyway, I think the NUMBER ONE need is for us to get that NT that we need. Hands down, Brockers and Donald become that much more effective even if that guy almost never makes a tackle or sack. Even if it just means keeping the ILBs clean.

After that, we need cover corners. FA or draft, we need cover corners and it wouldn't surprise me if that's our first round pick. Even top notch NTs tend to wait until at least the 2nd round.

After that we need two OLBs. I'm actually okay with a lighter ILB corps and like the pairing fo Tree and Barron. We could transition Barron back to SS, but we actually have some pretty good safeties already. Unless we move Joyner back to CB, which imho would be a mistake because his best spot is FS, then we're short on CBs.

And unless we see a stud Center in the draft or shakes loose in FA, I'd stick with Sully. He's been pretty good.

 

[Merlin]

@Merlin @OldSchool
Just a thought.We just locked up Alec Ogletree who seems to be struggling
a bit at the new position.I know we need a big plugger in front,but
I am not so sure they signed him with the thought of a move to OLB.
He can be downright nasty off the edge and able to cover adequate
for the position.Thoughts?

Early on I had thought maybe Ogletree could be an edge guy, but now it seems he's best served where they have him in this defense. His optimal position IMO is 4-3 weakside backer, due to it maximizing his chase ability. But he's become more than what he was, and has an ability to give you quick and deep drops into coverage in the middle which is valuable, plus his improvement on the interior.

Right now it seems like our biggest problem is at the nose. When Wade first came over I expected him to get a prototype space eating NT, but of course that never happened, and at this point I'm not sure he is necessarily looking for that type on the nose. He probably just needs a better overall DT in there, who can win his gap plain and simple.

Either way this defense is going to get tested vs the Saints and Eagles. We're gonna know what our needs are for sure pretty soon, and whether this group is ready to hang in a playoff environment.