Shaun Hill Assessment

[RamzFanz]

I would like to discuss his single half of play to see if you see what I do. Please don't make this a Hill vs Davis, those threads exist. Thank you.

I went back and watched Hill play and, even as a Hill fan from TC I have to say, he's better than I remembered.

-People who say he isn't mobile need to go watch him. With a pass rush in his face most of the game he only took 1 sack and that was because a blind side DE came up from behind him and knocked the ball free which he fell on and saved. This is the play where I believe he was injured as his shoulder was jammed back on the hit and he threw only one more time. Other than that, he moved in the pocket and delivered time after time. He scrambled out of the pocket and extended plays a couple of times but, with his play, that's all he needed to. After he left the game, there were four more sacks which I believe is a testament to his ability to avoid pressure.

-If my assessment is correct, he threw one bad pass and that was the interception immediately after the play where he was probably injured. I forgot how many sweet throws he made that were called back by penalty, dropped passes, or where the player didn't go past the first down marker. Of the other incompletes, one was an 8 man blitz that collapsed the line and he overthrew the receiver deep by 5 yards but the defender drew a flag. It looked to me like either the receiver couldn't get to his spot or Hill was throwing away the ball without drawing the intentional grounding. However, it could have just been that he overthrew the receiver from the pressure. The second was a pass to no one deep that appeared to be a missed route by the receiver. The third was the interception that was a circus catch interception. Some say he was throwing the ball away but either way, it's on him.

-Hill hit his hot route every time he needed to and there was a receiver open. He didn't miss once. Every hot route pass that wasn't complete was the receiver dropping a pass directly to them.


Now that the penalties have subsided and the receivers are catching better, I could see Hill having a monster game. Dude has an ARM. His short passes have zing when needed and touch where needed and were dead on right where the receiver needed the ball to be.

He threw with anticipation and hit receivers in stride. He went through his reads and kept his eyes downfield.

His long bombs were deep and accurate other than the ones I mentioned.

What impressed me most was his presence. Completely calm. Moving in the pocket. Setting his feet and delivering. Defeating pressure with dump off passes or scrambling.

I think the Rams, other than their O line, are far better than they have appeared and Hill is going to be able to exploit that. If you go back and remove the penalties and dropped passes he would have been dominating the Vikings. Now throw in the Rams' D that is finally living up to their talent and I can't help but believe this is going to be a hell of a game and that the rest of the season, at the very least, is going to be exciting with more wins than not.

What say you?

 

[Rambitious1]

Seems to be a good assessment.
If you are correct with it, I agree that there should be more wins, considering we have limited penalties and dropped passes. However, the loss of BQ will lower my expectation.

 

[DaveFan'51]

I think your assessment is spot-on, and I hope your right. It's going to be a Brawl!! Maybe like the "Thrilla-in-Manilla"!

 

[RamsJunkie]

Just depresses me that Fisher didnt make the switch sooner so we would have a better shot at making the playoffs. pretty sure we would have a couple of more wins if Hill had started every game he was healthy enough to start. Davis has folded and given away a few games.

 

[Thordaddy]

You can't set those parameters if you are going to challenge other peoples impression of Hill and you do

People who say he isn't mobile need to go watch him

I have watched him ,he isn't as mobile as Davis,his legs are older and haven't proven to be able to make it through one game without pulling a muscle

Your purpose in this thread is clearly to elevate Hill over Davis ,that you can not hide , so all I have to say is Davis has halves of football this season that make Hills one half look pretty anemic .

I have always said the two QB's are unique and have something to offer and that without better play from the defense in half of our losses it wasn't QB play that lost them and I still maintain that if the defense hadn't immediately given up the lead to Az Sunday we could have hung on and played field position football and Davis wouldn't have had to take chances ,wouldn't have been put in the position to have to win and things that did happen probably wouldn't .We've given up three back breaking TD's up the middle this year,Sunday was just the most recent,Davis doesn't play DB.

 

[RamzFanz]

I honestly believe the team, other than the O line, is playing at a top level and that Hill will neutralize the pass rush and open up the long ball and running game.

My biggest fear against Denver isn't the offense or defense anymore. It's Schotty. We need those 2nd and goals from the 2 to go to Bam Bam 3 times for the score. We need TA somewhere in the mix every down of every drive and with plays like he had the first TD drive last week and not like the rest of the game. We need TM on the edge where he's been busting loose more times than not.

It really sucks that Quick is out this game in particular but Schotty needs to use Britt and TA to stretch the field because Hill can deliver.

I could also see big games for Cook and Bailey. Please Schotty, PLEASE, don't use Givens more than Bailey. Bailey is superior in all ways other than speed. He doesn't draw penalties, drop balls, or give up on routes. If he can't be our clutch guy, no one can.

If Schotty sends in the wrong play, I hope Hill just changes it.

This CAN'T be a conservative game no matter the situation unless it's late in the fourth and Rams are up 14 and dominating with the D.

PLEASE GW, don't blitz on 3rd down and 10+. Just stop them short. PLEASE!

To special teams I would ask only one thing: On punt returns, turn and block. Don't watch TA, don't worry about where he's going, turn and block. HE will find a way around you.

And finally, if Fisher gives up another possession at the end of the first half with time on the clock and timeouts on the board just to lose again, I'm going to go to the stadium and Taco Bell bean burrito with a liter of vodka chaser projectile sh1t on his car and dry it in place with a heatgun. I swear I will. You've been warned Fish, play this game like you have to win and every drive and possession is precious!

 

[RamzFanz]

You can't set those parameters if you are going to challenge other peoples impression of Hill and you do

People who say he isn't mobile need to go watch him

I have watched him ,he isn't as mobile as Davis,his legs are older and haven't proven to be able to make it through one game without pulling a muscle

Your purpose in this thread is clearly to elevate Hill over Davis ,that you can not hide , so all I have to say is Davis has halves of football this season that make Hills one half look pretty anemic .

I have always said the two QB's are unique and have something to offer and that without better play from the defense in half of our losses it wasn't QB play that lost them and I still maintain that if the defense hadn't immediately given up the lead to Az Sunday we could have hung on and played field position football and Davis wouldn't have had to take chances ,wouldn't have been put in the position to have to win and things that did happen probably wouldn't .We've given up three back breaking TD's up the middle this year,Sunday was just the most recent,Davis doesn't play DB.

I'm not going to debate you about Davis. I'm excited for this game and you're not going to bring me down.

Have you watched Hill's only play time? Do you have an opinion that differs from mine?

 

[Fatbot]

Just depresses me that Fisher didnt make the switch sooner so we would have a better shot at making the playoffs. pretty sure we would have a couple of more wins if Hill had started every game he was healthy enough to start. Davis has folded and given away a few games.

I agree that the switch should have been sooner, but I'm not convinced any earlier timing of the switch would have changed the season. Perhaps one could argue Hill should have started the Dallas-Philly games and won either or both, but my opinion is Davis did not lose those games. Yes Davis's pick-6 was key but his good performance was the reason the games were even close. I don't think I can assume Hill would have been better than Davis in those two games in completions/yards and also perfect in turnovers, too.

The first time Hill probably would have made a difference was against SF when Rams were already 1-3. Obviously in hindsight we know Davis stunk it up, but going into that game it wouldn't have made sense to yank him. So maybe Hill gets a win there, but the timing was not ripe for the QB swap.

So I would have started Hill following the first SF game. Rams were already 1-4 at that point, and the next four games were against the defending SB champs and 3 quality road contests. It would not be surprising, even if Hill started and played great, to go 0-4 or 1-3 in those games. As it turned out the Rams went 2-2, even with Davis struggling. So once again I don't think timing the switch here would have done better in the W-L.

In summary, I think one can imagine Hill wins the first SF game since the bar of improvement was so low, but I don't think he would have done better than 2-2 over this latest 4 game stretch. So we'd be sitting 4-5 going to play Denver, still not exactly a great spot to be.

 

[RamzFanz]

Please good people. Can we leave the Hill / Davis debate until after we watch Hill this week? There will be plenty to compare on Monday.

I really would like to see what people think of Hill's only playing time based on what he did and not assumptions.

Thank you.

 

[LACHAMP46]

I've read several places that Hill is from a running QB offense in college, so his mobility was pretty decent....Only thing, that was a long time ago...He hasn't played much since 2010...and really, that's a long time ago....He should be able to execute better in the face of pressure due to his experience, and I actually think the O-Line is playing much better than week one...Broncos are a different animal with two prime-time edge rushers...Should be interesting seeing the match ups of G-Rob & Barksdale vs Ware & Miller...

 

[RamzFanz]

I've read several places that Hill is from a running QB offense in college, so his mobility was pretty decent....Only thing, that was a long time ago...He hasn't played much since 2010...and really, that's a long time ago....He should be able to execute better in the face of pressure due to his experience, and I actually think the O-Line is playing much better than week one...Broncos are a different animal with two prime-time edge rushers...Should be interesting seeing the match ups of G-Ron & Barksdale vs Ware & Miller...

Dude, it's all scary this week. Is Hill too old? Is he injury prone? With this O-line, could any QB have a good game?

We'll see. From the only play time we have, I would have to say Hill's more mobile than people assume but that he just doesn't need to escape because he reads the D well, anticipates blitzes, moves in the pocket, anticipates the open receiver, and delivers.

I have enough faith in him that I went to grab him in FF this week to start over Wilson but Grand Rama Jama has him on the bench.

 

[ram007]

Put down the cool aide.

Fisher thought Austin was better than Hill to go with Austin. Fisher is making the switch now to limit turnovers using a veteran QB. Austin Davis will be on the team as third string next year while Shaun Hill will be asked to moved to green pastures

 

[den-the-coach]

Rams really wanted Hill liked him previously too because of quarterback coach Frank Cignetti who had coached him previously. IMO, if they can give him descent protection (and I post that with trepidation) Hill will get the ball out quicker and his deep ball should be better than Davis at this juncture.

 

[RamzFanz]

If I get time, I will do screen shots or something. I have it recorded and, rest assured, dude was ballin'. His throws were just as described. Dead on other than what I mentioned. That interception is on Hill whatever the cause but it's not one that would be caught 9 times out of 10.

 

[Thordaddy]

I'm not going to debate you about Davis. I'm excited for this game and you're not going to bring me down.

Have you watched Hill's only play time? Do you have an opinion that differs from mine?

Again , your implications are a debate ,you don't have to say Hill over Davis to make it clear that is your purpose ,you've said it so many times over the past few weeks ,all you are really doing is trying to shut down dissent by trying to set those parameters.

I'm not trying to "bring you down" question might be who are you trying to shut down ?

There won't be a single Rams fan anywhere that will be rooting harder than me for Hill to out duel Payton Manning, you are asking people to evaluate Hill on one half of play where he gave up an interception that lead to a score that most every scribe defines as the turning point of the game , are you going to come on the board and proclaim error if we get crushed Sunday.
All the expectations I ever had of Hill being good enough was dependent upon our defense playing up to pre season billing which they didn't for Davis when he was playing well and if they had we ALL KNOW we'd be at least 4-5 or 5-4 and we wouldn't even be having this conversation we'd be in the hunt and not prone to making a change at QB.
It's a team game Austin Davis isn't 3-6 the Rams are and IMO we might not be that good if Hill had played the whole way,evaluating Hill based on his performance against a team with a losing record and expecting anyone not to tell you that all the Rams losses with Davis' are against teams with .500 or better records isn't legit, just isn't.

 

[RamzFanz]

Put down the cool aide.

Fisher thought Austin was better than Hill to go with Austin. Fisher is making the switch now to limit turnovers using a veteran QB. Austin Davis will be on the team as third string next year while Shaun Hill will be asked to moved to green pastures

YOU'RE WRONG!




...because it's Kool Aid, not Cool Aide.

And no, no I won't.

I'm not debating Davis. There's nothing to debate at this point.

 

[ram007]

YOU'RE WRONG!




...because it's Kool Aid, not Cool Aide.

And no, no I won't.

I'm not debating Davis. There's nothing to debate at this point.

LOL. ok

 

[RamzFanz]

Again , your implications are a debate ,you don't have to say Hill over Davis to make it clear that is your purpose ,you've said it so many times over the past few weeks ,all you are really doing is trying to shut down dissent by trying to set those parameters.

I'm not trying to "bring you down" question might be who are you trying to shut down ?

There won't be a single Rams fan anywhere that will be rooting harder for Hill to out duel Payton Manning, you are asking people to evaluate Hill on one half of play where he gave up an interception that lead to a score that most every scribe defines as the turning point of the game , are you going to come on the board and proclaim error if we get crushed Sunday.
All the expectations I ever had of Hill being good enough was dependent upon our defense playing up to pre season billing which they didn't for Davis when he was playing well and if they had we ALL KNOW we'd be at least 4-5 or 5-4 and we wouldn't even be having this conversation we'd be in the hunt and not prone to making a change at QB.
It's a team game Austin Davis isn't 3-6 the Rams are and IMO we might not be that good if Hill had played the whole way,evaluating Hill based on his performance against a team with a losing record and expecting anyone to tell you that all the Rams losses with Davis' are against teams with .500 or better records isn't legit, just isn't.

Why do I have to suffer accusations every time I want to discuss Hill? Can't you just go debate Hill / Davis on one of the many Hill / Davis threads?

I can see as a Davis fan you are not happy with the decision and don't think Hill will be an improvement. You've said as much over and over on other threads. I'm abandoning those threads because it's all been said.

I want to discuss Hill and the only real game time information we have on him with the Rams. It's not like I'm saying this quarter or that or this game or that, it's all we have. If you insist on littering this thread, so be it, I have no power to stop you. I asked.

"are you going to come on the board and proclaim error if we get crushed Sunday."

Yes, yes I will. If Hill is worse than Davis, I will personally start a RamzFanz is an idiot thread for every Davis fan to beat me up. Will you do the same if he's better than Davis? [CHALLENGE ISSUED]

 

[Thordaddy]

I've read several places that Hill is from a running QB offense in college, so his mobility was pretty decent....Only thing, that was a long time ago...He hasn't played much since 2010...and really, that's a long time ago....He should be able to execute better in the face of pressure due to his experience, and I actually think the O-Line is playing much better than week one...Broncos are a different animal with two prime-time edge rushers...Should be interesting seeing the match ups of G-Rob & Barksdale vs Ware & Miller...

Yup ,Hill WAS probably 20 pouinds lighter back them and his BMI was probably way different , something like Davis is NOW.

I've been a fan of the Broncos ( second team always ) since Charlie Johnson was their QB , this is the best team we've faced this year and if we beat them or even have a moral victory I'll be impressed .I EVEN have thoughts the coaches are only starting Hill to let him absorb the hits because he's not part of next years plans . This one has ugly written all over it, but if Aaron Donald can keep beating his man and move Manning off his spot , the Woody Hayes Theorem COULD come into play, "three things can happen when you throw the ball and two of them are bad"