My Defensive Philosophy: Dominant Units

[jrry32]

This is a philosophy some might have seen in my mocks, but I think dominant units are more important than having great players scattered around the defense. The Rams had a chance at a dominant secondary but letting Janoris Jenkins walk through a wrench into that plan. As we saw this year, we're stuck with a good pass rush and a good secondary. Both have weak links. That's a huge problem because offenses can scheme to attack our weak links. Tru is a very good CB, but they can just throw at Troy Hill or Mike Jordan or E.J. Gaines (I really hope Gaines improves next year). Donald is a dominant DT, but they can just double him.

Here's my point. I think we need to prioritize a unit this off-season. We need to make a decision, do we want a dominant pass rush or a dominant secondary? I'd love to have both, but that likely won't happen. If we want a dominant pass rush, we need to let Tru walk and invest money in a premier pass rusher like JPP or Chandler Jones. We can then replace Tru with a cheaper alternative and add draft picks to compete in the secondary. Our secondary will likely take a step back, but the dominant pass rush will cover for that. If we want a dominant secondary, we need to retain Tru and go hard after a top FA CB like Stephon Gilmore and then add a talented CB or two in the draft to compete with Gaines for the slot position and add depth.(I think we should move Joyner to FS no matter what)

Basically, we need to make a choice this off-season on what unit we want to be dominant. You can't scheme around a dominant unit. You can't scheme around a DL of Quinn, Donald, Brockers, JPP, Hayes, and Easley. Alternatively, you can't scheme around a secondary of Tru, Gilmore, a talented rookie, Gaines, Joyner, and Alexander. No matter what, you have to confront our strength.

Basically, we can't keep spreading our resources around the defense in hopes of making a very good all-around defense. We need to choose a strength and run with it. Our next defensive coordinator will have to make that choice. Personally, I'd choose the pass rush.

 

[LumberTubs]

Good post Jerry.

Never thought of it like that but what you say about teams scheming around great individual defenders makes sense. Donald seems to be less effective when Quinn isn't playing which fits perfectly with what you've said.

 

[Dxmissile]

I definitely agree that's why I was upset that they let both McLeod and Jenkins go right when they were starting to really play well together and that hurt us big time.

 

[SteezyEndo]

I am all for it, but I would like to see the new mysterious HC/Staff whomever coach our guys up. I want to see their takes, I want them to decide who should stay or go, and what tweaking they must do to make this Rams team a top contender for years to come. We need a lot of work, I honestly feel like whoever comes in Greg Williams is gone, Boras is gone, and I am fine with that. Bring in someone who can discipline this defense, and run a Offensive system that actually works.

 

[Legatron4]

But what about Denver and Seattle? They have both.

 

[dieterbrock]

And of course we need to invest heavily on the other side of the ball

 

[ramfan46]

I agree with the pass rush being the Strength to focus on. I want to build around Donald and Brockers. Time to restock edge rushers. Quinn looks like he's on the decline and can no longer be relied upon to play 16 games.
A strong Dline will be tough in every game. You can get the ball out quicker, but it affects what the o wants to do from a fundamental level. Also, they can do damage to the running game and draw holding penalties or false starts. A good secondary can be schemed against much easier and more effectively like Jrry said.

 

[Dodgersrf]

If we can choose just 1, I choose a dominant D LINE. A good QB and Offense can still pick apart a great secondary if given enough time.
The key to stopping a good offense is getting them out of rythym and knocking them around.

Pressure the QB. Hit the QB. Plug running lanes. D line is my choice.

 

[den-the-coach]

Actually when you build a great defense you usually win and beat great offenses. Ravens, Giants, Broncos,are a few examples, however, you can also win with a great offense and bend but don't break defense. IMO I like an aggressive defense, if you put pressure on a QB even on 3 and long, they have to get rid of the football fast and usually they come up short.

Now I know you can die by the sword, but I can't stand the prevent defense at end of games or soft zones, that's why I like Gregg Williams and Rex Ryan for example, but for those defenses to be strong you have to have two shut down corners.

That is why the Rams have struggled this year because they only have one good CB in Johnson, Gaines has been hurt all year and the rest of the bunch is simply a cast of castoffs. I was surprised that in Mike Shanhan's interview with Colin Cowherd, he spoke about having good defenses and that was the key to success, I was shocked he said that.

You see I love Mike Shanahan and his offense, but he has never been part of good defense. The defenses in Denver his coordinator was Greg Robinson (no not the Rams LT who should be a guard) and that defense was borderline at best and in Washington under JIm Haslett that defense was mediocre at best as well.

If Kyle Shanhan becomes the next Ram Head Coach which I believe will happen and Mike Shanhan is also hired in a front office capacity, I hope they hire an aggressive defensive coordinator. I hope Kyle takes a page out of Gary Kubiak's book and makes sure he hires a great DC (Wade Phillips) and if Rex Ryan is fired in Buffalo, IMO, that would be a great match with Kyle Shanahan IMHO. Ryan would never get another chance to be a Head Coach again and would be the perfect compliment to the subdued Kyle Shanahan.

Hope it all works out because my greatest fear is that going offense with the next Head Coach the defense will suffer and end up with another Larry Marmie for example. There will be some good coaches available for DC's and some who have been Head Coaches too like Ryan & Gus Bradley for example, however, there are others that I would like to avoid like Mike Pettine.

Usually a first time Head Coach likes to surround himself with somebody who on the opposite side of the ball has more experience then him, however, it does not always happen that way and good example is in Miami where the Dolphins hire first time DC Vance Joseph to oversee the defense. But my hope is the Kyle Shanhan does not do that, focus on a DC that has overseen a top ten defense, his father did not do that and IMO that is what led to his demise in Denver & Washington, hopefully if the Rams do hire Kyle, he realizes his most important hire wll be the DC, something Jeff Fisher could never get right on the other side of the ball even though he had several opportunities.

 

[WestCoastRam]

1) Get the most talented/smartest player you can get in FA/draft.
2) All things being equal and choosing between two players you evaluate evenly, go with building a dominate unit.
3) Get really really really ridiculously lucky.

 

[LACHAMP46]

I tend to believe a few talented individuals can lift the play of those around them. Sorta like Quinn & Donald helping the others perform at a higher overall level on the D-Line...

 

[Merlin]

The Rams had a chance at a dominant secondary but letting Janoris Jenkins walk through a wrench into that plan.

That one move demonstrates the importance of a strong GM. Which Snead is most assuredly not. Just another reason why Les Snead is gone, and the media simply haven't picked up on it yet.

 

[yrba1]

Excellent points, cohesion is an underappreciated aspect of making a good unit. Hopefully we can get this addressed during the offseason, especially on O-line since it's a given.

Also hope we implement an offense that relies on scheming to the player's strengths. Our offense throughout Fisher's tenure has issues emphasizing on catering to the player's strengths, trying to make the offense complicated but it's hard for the players to understand yet easy for opposing defenses to decipher.

Ultimately, I hope the offense gets a massive overhaul. Playing with a comfortable lead definitely makes a pass rush more effective (see 1999 Rams defense)

 

[DaveFan'51]

This is a philosophy some might have seen in my mocks, but I think dominant units are more important than having great players scattered around the defense. The Rams had a chance at a dominant secondary but letting Janoris Jenkins walk through a wrench into that plan. As we saw this year, we're stuck with a good pass rush and a good secondary. Both have weak links. That's a huge problem because offenses can scheme to attack our weak links. Tru is a very good CB, but they can just throw at Troy Hill or Mike Jordan or E.J. Gaines (I really hope Gaines improves next year). Donald is a dominant DT, but they can just double him.

Here's my point. I think we need to prioritize a unit this off-season. We need to make a decision, do we want a dominant pass rush or a dominant secondary? I'd love to have both, but that likely won't happen. If we want a dominant pass rush, we need to let Tru walk and invest money in a premier pass rusher like JPP or Chandler Jones. We can then replace Tru with a cheaper alternative and add draft picks to compete in the secondary. Our secondary will likely take a step back, but the dominant pass rush will cover for that. If we want a dominant secondary, we need to retain Tru and go hard after a top FA CB like Stephon Gilmore and then add a talented CB or two in the draft to compete with Gaines for the slot position and add depth.(I think we should move Joyner to FS no matter what)

Basically, we need to make a choice this off-season on what unit we want to be dominant. You can't scheme around a dominant unit. You can't scheme around a DL of Quinn, Donald, Brockers, JPP, Hayes, and Easley. Alternatively, you can't scheme around a secondary of Tru, Gilmore, a talented rookie, Gaines, Joyner, and Alexander. No matter what, you have to confront our strength.

Basically, we can't keep spreading our resources around the defense in hopes of making a very good all-around defense. We need to choose a strength and run with it. Our next defensive coordinator will have to make that choice. Personally, I'd choose the pass rush.

I'm with you 32!!! I believe History in the NFL and the Rams in particular, proves going with the Dominant Pass Rush is the BEST way to go!!

 

[Dodgersrf]

I tend to believe a few talented individuals can lift the play of those around them. Sorta like Quinn & Donald helping the others perform at a higher overall level on the D-Line...

Give us 2 quality starter on oline and the other young guys will benefit ftom it.
I personally would go C, G. Maybe Grob would benilefit. Lt, C or LT, G would also help. Our interior oline is weaker than both T positions imo.

 

[StealYoGurley]

You make some good points but if you look at the top units in the nfl building dominant units does not necessarily require heavy draft or FA investment in one area. If you look at every top 10 defense they have really good players at every level. Its more important to develop top guys and resign them if they become elite players. In addition to developing young players you have to find values in the draft and FA.

For example outside of Earl Thomas all of the legion of boom drafted after the first round and they found values in FA in bennett and Avril. The broncos signed Talib and TJ ward to big deals but Chris harris is a UDFA and they signed former Ram UDFA Darian Stewart on the cheap in FA. The front 7 has home grown high picks in Miller, Ray, Wolfe, and Williams supplemented by reasonable FAs in Demarcus Ware and Jared Crick. Houston has at least 2 first or second round picks on every level of defense.

Conversely unbalanced defenses like the jets , Bills and Dolphins who have invested heavily in there d-line are not in the top half of defenses.

 

[dieterbrock]

That one move demonstrates the importance of a strong GM. Which Snead is most assuredly not. Just another reason why Les Snead is gone, and the media simply haven't picked up on it yet.

I don't know if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I always felt that Janoris should have been the one getting the franchise tag and that Tru should have been negotiated with. I just thought with Tru's injury history, the Rams had some leverage. Water under the bridge, but it seemed like it could have been played better. Who knows

 

[iamme33]

And of course we need to invest heavily on the other side of the ball

yeah when I think of next year I just come up with tons of ifs. if rq return to old self. if gaines recovers from injury and gets back to rookie play. it gurlley comes back and goff works out. if g rob can be moved to g and can tru be resigned. there are a lot more ifs but my finger is getting tired. anyway I start thinking of all the ifs and the doubts start to get to me. then I remember when we had training camp with the cowboys and one of the camp reports said the cowboys ran about 2 plays to our I. then there was the hard knocks thing. we had 1 yoga class and 1 swimming pool thing where the players threw the coaches in the pool right after fisher gives safety first speech. then fisher makes a comedy routine out of dumb and dumber when they should have been running gasers after practice. anyway I think fisher ran some pretty easy camps and maybe that's why our players don't seem to improve. so imo we should wait until a new coach gets a training camp before we judge our players.

 

[dieterbrock]

yeah when I think of next year I just come up with tons of ifs. if rq return to old self. if gaines recovers from injury and gets back to rookie play. it gurlley comes back and goff works out. if g rob can be moved to g and can tru be resigned. there are a lot more ifs but my finger is getting tired. anyway I start thinking of all the ifs and the doubts start to get to me. then I remember when we had training camp with the cowboys and one of the camp reports said the cowboys ran about 2 plays to our I. then there was the hard knocks thing. we had 1 yoga class and 1 swimming pool thing where the players threw the coaches in the pool right after fisher gives safety first speech. then fisher makes a comedy routine out of dumb and dumber when they should have been running gasers after practice. anyway I think fisher ran some pretty easy camps and maybe that's why our players don't seem to improve. so imo we should wait until a new coach gets a training camp before we judge our players.

Its posts like this that make me want to give a like, a high five and a thread winner

 

[jrry32]

You make some good points but if you look at the top units in the nfl building dominant units does not necessarily require heavy draft or FA investment in one area. If you look at every top 10 defense they have really good players at every level. Its more important to develop top guys and resign them if they become elite players. In addition to developing young players you have to find values in the draft and FA.

The problem with this is that for every Richard Sherman and Chris Harris, there are 100+ players who amount to nothing. You can't build hoping to get a one in a million player. It would have been like the Rams waiting on their next Kurt Warner instead of investing in Goff.

For example outside of Earl Thomas all of the legion of boom drafted after the first round and they found values in FA in bennett and Avril. The broncos signed Talib and TJ ward to big deals but Chris harris is a UDFA and they signed former Ram UDFA Darian Stewart on the cheap in FA. The front 7 has home grown high picks in Miller, Ray, Wolfe, and Williams supplemented by reasonable FAs in Demarcus Ware and Jared Crick. Houston has at least 2 first or second round picks on every level of defense.

Conversely unbalanced defenses like the jets , Bills and Dolphins who have invested heavily in there d-line are not in the top half of defenses.

Seattle chose secondary. They built a quality pass rush and LB corp, but neither are great units. Denver was able to choose both pass rush and secondary. Most teams aren't that fortunate. But you see that Denver sold out for their secondary in FA. They knew they wanted a dominant unit.

The Jets were one of the best defenses in the NFL last year. The problem for the Jets is that Revis has fallen off a cliff and they have no outside pass rushers. They sold out to great a dominant secondary. It didn't last long. And when it fell apart, their pass rush was exposed as not being dominant.

The Bills and Dolphins don't have dominant pass rushes or secondaries. Both have good players scattered throughout. That's the problem I was speaking on in this post. You gotta sell out somewhere. Although, the Dolphins did try to sell out with the pass rush. But they weren't successful at it.