Fired Coaches Watch

[Mojo Ram]

Whats Gregg Williams up to?
His suspension was lifted this past February. I say fuck it and bring back the right man for the job.

 

[mr.stlouis]

That's the problem that they were talking about. Look at Charlie Strong, guy was passed up for coaching jobs for far too long. Ray Horton should have been hired already too. Guy is one of the best defensive minds in the game. Hue Jackson is a brilliant offensive mind and did a solid job in Oakland, yet he's not even getting looks as an OC...much less a coach. Lovie Smith should have never been fired. There are a few other minority position coaches that should have been promoted to DC somewhere long ago.



I'd say the best job is Houston. Have pieces on defense to be good, great offensive talent and have the #1 pick. Easy turnaround with a good coach and Bridgewater.

Beyond that, Tampa Bay and Detroit are both great spots but neither have elite QBs.

Yes. And on top of all that the AFC south is very average overall. The AFC in general has taken a step back from previous years.

 

[jrry32]

and you think they were fired/not given jobs because of race?

Nothing to do with the product on the field/possibly not interviewing well or nearly as well as other candidates?

I don't know. I would hope not. But I do know Charlie Strong felt he didn't get a job sooner than he did because of race. I also recognize that Hue Jackson and Ray Horton are very bright minds that are two of the best schemers in the league so it is hard for me to understand the lack of respect they get. And I had a very hard time understanding why Lovie was fired. Although, it seems he'll get a job this year as a HC.

 

[moklerman]

I don't know. I would hope not. But I do know Charlie Strong felt he didn't get a job sooner than he did because of race. I also recognize that Hue Jackson and Ray Horton are very bright minds that are two of the best schemers in the league so it is hard for me to understand the lack of respect they get. And I had a very hard time understanding why Lovie was fired. Although, it seems he'll get a job this year as a HC.

Schottenheimer was fired after 14-2 wasn't he? Couldn't get a job after that and he still wanted to coach. Brian Billick hasn't been able to find work either. Sometimes guys just aren't in the right spot or situation to be hired.

And speaking of Hue Jackson, that dude's got some personality issues that would scare off just about any GM IMO. Good coach but guys who have proved themselves to be competent in the NFL are passed over for reasons other than race all the time.

 

[jrry32]

Schottenheimer was fired after 14-2 wasn't he? Couldn't get a job after that and he still wanted to coach. Brian Billick hasn't been able to find work either. Sometimes guys just aren't in the right spot or situation to be hired.

And speaking of Hue Jackson, that dude's got some personality issues that would scare off just about any GM IMO. Good coach but guys who have proved themselves to be competent in the NFL are passed over for reasons other than race all the time.

Billick wasn't a good coach. Schottenheimer was fired because he lost a power struggle with the GM. Which likely factored into why he wasn't able to get another job.

And that's a similar reason for why Hue Jackson has had difficulties. Horton and Lovie, though...I don't understand that.

 

[mr.stlouis]

So Schwartz is fired... Tim Walton next? I'm with you guys, here.

We have enough on the job training with all the young players.

 

[moklerman]

Billick wasn't a good coach. Schottenheimer was fired because he lost a power struggle with the GM. Which likely factored into why he wasn't able to get another job.

And that's a similar reason for why Hue Jackson has had difficulties. Horton and Lovie, though...I don't understand that.

I don't like Billick as a commentator at all but he did win a SB as a HC. He may not be Vince Lombardi reincarnated but he has to have at least an acceptable level of ability as a coach to go that far.

I think Lovie is just timing and opportunity. The guy's a good HC and will get another shot. Race isn't holding him back. And as good as Horton may be as a DC, he doesn't have any experience as a HC. There are only 32 of those jobs which statistically, means about 3-4 black HC's would equate to population numbers. Before Frazier got fired, there were 3 black HC's in the NFL and there's a good chance it'll jump to 4 if Lovie and Horton or Frazier or someone else gets the nod this year.

I'm not saying there isn't discrimination but I think the race card is played far too quickly sometimes. Horton's been working his way through the machine but he's only got a total of 3 years as a coordinator. That alone would've kept him from getting the top job in most cases. Maybe if he's sprung the 4-6 defense or the GSOT on the league then he gets a shot a lot sooner but as a good but not great DC, he's going to have to put in more time.

 

[jrry32]

I don't like Billick as a commentator at all but he did win a SB as a HC. He may not be Vince Lombardi reincarnated but he has to have at least an acceptable level of ability as a coach to go that far.

Billick was a mediocre Head Coach that rode a great defense to success. Billick was hired as an offensive minded HC and the Baltimore offense was pretty average throughout his tenure. He also failed to ever develop a QB for them.

His defensive coordinators were Marvin Lewis(Bengals Head Coach), Mike Nolan and Rex Ryan(Jets Head Coach). Basically, the guy relied on the defense and his defensive coordinators(who were excellent) to keep the Ravens relevant.

That's why nobody wants him. He wasn't terrible or anything but he wasn't responsible for their success.

 

[moklerman]

I didn't ever follow the Ravens that closely but I'm pretty sure Newsome was responsible, good or bad, for their drafts wasn't he? During Billick's time there they drafted Redman and Boller. Was that Billick or Newsome? Granted they didn't develop but if Billick is criticized for the lack of passing attack shouldn't he be commended for their awesome running game? Which also plays right into having a top defense. Grind out the clock, keep it close and let your defense and running game control the situation. Sure, having a team like the 49ers early '90's 49ers is the dream but it rarely happens. One unit usually offsets the other.

Now, if Billick hand-picked those QB's and chose to pass up earlier round QB's then that's on him but expecting him to replicate what Dennis Green actually put together in Minnesota when he didn't have Green drafting the teams for him might be unfair. For example, in Billick's first year of 1999 Baltimore took Chris McCallister(DB) and passed up Duante Culpepper at QB. They went with FA Tony Banks, which in retrospect sounds crazy or like an indictment against the Ravens but they did get the best year of his career out of him. 17TD/8INT and an 81.2 rating is practically magic when talking about Tony Banks. I think they ultimately fooled themselves into thinking it would last though and the next year, they passed up the perfect QB for what they were doing in Baltimore leaving Chad Pennington on the board and taking Travis Taylor(WR). But after their relative success with Banks I guess it might have been too soon to draft a QB then they win it all that year and it doesn't really matter. In 2001, they stick with Dilfer as the incumbent and take Todd Heap(TE) and leave Drew Brees on the board.

But again, don't think I'm defending Billick too much here. I'm just saying that he had to at least be good enough to hold down a coordinator's job and then a head coaching job for 10+ years in the NFL and is now jobless when he wants to be back in. But it has nothing to do with race and there are plenty of examples of many colors not getting their chance(yet).

 

[jrry32]

I didn't ever follow the Ravens that closely but I'm pretty sure Newsome was responsible, good or bad, for their drafts wasn't he? During Billick's time there they drafted Redman and Boller. Was that Billick or Newsome? Granted they didn't develop but if Billick is criticized for the lack of passing attack shouldn't he be commended for their awesome running game? Which also plays right into having a top defense. Grind out the clock, keep it close and let your defense and running game control the situation. Sure, having a team like the 49ers early '90's 49ers is the dream but it rarely happens. One unit usually offsets the other.

Now, if Billick hand-picked those QB's and chose to pass up earlier round QB's then that's on him but expecting him to replicate what Dennis Green actually put together in Minnesota when he didn't have Green drafting the teams for him might be unfair. For example, in Billick's first year of 1999 Baltimore took Chris McCallister(DB) and passed up Duante Culpepper at QB. They went with FA Tony Banks, which in retrospect sounds crazy or like an indictment against the Ravens but they did get the best year of his career out of him. 17TD/8INT and an 81.2 rating is practically magic when talking about Tony Banks. I think they ultimately fooled themselves into thinking it would last though and the next year, they passed up the perfect QB for what they were doing in Baltimore leaving Chad Pennington on the board and taking Travis Taylor(WR). But after their relative success with Banks I guess it might have been too soon to draft a QB then they win it all that year and it doesn't really matter. In 2001, they stick with Dilfer as the incumbent and take Todd Heap(TE) and leave Drew Brees on the board.

But again, don't think I'm defending Billick too much here. I'm just saying that he had to at least be good enough to hold down a coordinator's job and then a head coaching job for 10+ years in the NFL and is now jobless when he wants to be back in. But it has nothing to do with race and there are plenty of examples of many colors not getting their chance(yet).

Newsome had the final say but I'm sure Billick had input.

Billick wants back in...and nobody is interested because he wasn't that good of a HC. That's what I'm saying.

As far as the rest goes, I have no idea if it is or isn't race. Already said as much. Charlie Strong thought it was. And that's his opinion. I just hope that it isn't race because it's disappointing to see Horton get passed over when, imo, he's one of the best candidates out there. Then again, so is Mike Zimmer and the same thing has happened to him...and he's white.

 

[moklerman]

Newsome had the final say but I'm sure Billick had input.

Billick wants back in...and nobody is interested because he wasn't that good of a HC. That's what I'm saying.

As far as the rest goes, I have no idea if it is or isn't race. Already said as much. Charlie Strong thought it was. And that's his opinion. I just hope that it isn't race because it's disappointing to see Horton get passed over when, imo, he's one of the best candidates out there. Then again, so is Mike Zimmer and the same thing has happened to him...and he's white.

Why do you feel Horton is such a strong candidate? Does he even have ANY HC'ing experience at any level? I know he doesn't have any in the NFL and going into this year, he only had 2 years of DC experience. You'd promote that quickly if you were a GM?

Coordinators that are REALLY good at what they do...as in, innovation type good, I can see giving them an early chance. But guys who've barely paid their dues? I'm not even saying Horton doesn't deserve a chance at this point but it's being said like he's long overdue and has been continually passed over. I don't see that as the case.

As far as Billick, I don't know that you can make that assumption(if that's what you're doing). Just because a guy wants back in and can't get in doesn't mean they aren't any good. Marty's a good example.

 

[CGI_Ram]

how about just the best man for the job, regardless of ethnicity

No doubt. Are we still hung up on white vs black coaches? The thought never crosses my mind!

RE: Detroit seems like the best opening, but it's also the best opening that may only have a playoff ceiling. There are issues in Detroit. Safford is a streaky player. According to Reggie Bush, the team lacks leadership; that speaks to me that guys like Suh are divisive to the locker room.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Anyone else find it odd that a Superbowl winning coach, Brian Billick, wants to coach again but can't seem to land a gig?

Has his TV analyst role hurt his coaching respect? I ask that because it has with me.

 

[PhxRam]

Anyone else find it odd that a Superbowl winning coach, Brian Billick, wants to coach again but can't seem to land a gig?

Has his TV analyst role hurt his coaching respect? I ask that because it has with me.

Maybe if he could get players names right people would take him more seriously.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Maybe if he could get players names right people would take him more seriously.

Exactly. I understand being an analyst isn't easy; I couldn't do it. But he sounds like a buffoon at times.

 

[Alan]

jrry32 added:
Billick was hired as an offensive minded HC and the Baltimore offense was pretty average throughout his tenure. He also failed to ever develop a QB for them.

I'm not commenting one way or the other about his coaching abilities but how much of his lack of progress on the offensive said of the ball was due to them using all their resources on the D?

 

[Stranger]

So Schwartz is fired... Tim Walton next? I'm with you guys, here.

We have enough on the job training with all the young players.

I'm down with this as well. Let's get ourselves a DC who Jeff doesn't have to coach during games.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I'm down with this as well. Let's get ourselves a DC who Jeff doesn't have to coach during games.

And... Schwartz is going somewhere, but not as a HC. Might as well be here with Fisher raising hell with our high potential D.

 

[iced]

I don't know. I would hope not. But I do know Charlie Strong felt he didn't get a job sooner than he did because of race. I also recognize that Hue Jackson and Ray Horton are very bright minds that are two of the best schemers in the league so it is hard for me to understand the lack of respect they get. And I had a very hard time understanding why Lovie was fired. Although, it seems he'll get a job this year as a HC.

I disagree - I've known horton's name since his time at Arizona and I suspect a lot of others have too. His name has been throw around as well for the past couple years as a head coaching candidate.

It's not like these guys aren't known - they are candidates, they're just beat out for the job.

I have a hard time believing its about race - and I think the rooney rule is more of an insult because a lot of times they're interviewing candidates who don't have a legit shot because they don't have the same accolades/credentials as people they're going up against, and it just ends up being a waste of their time

 

[Stranger]

I disagree - I've known horton's name since his time at Arizona and I suspect a lot of others have too. His name has been throw around as well for the past couple years as a head coaching candidate.

It's not like these guys aren't known - they are candidates, they're just beat out for the job.

I have a hard time believing its about race - and I think the rooney rule is more of an insult because a lot of times they're interviewing candidates who don't have a legit shot because they don't have the same accolades/credentials as people they're going up against, and it just ends up being a waste of their time

Why exactly is it called the Rooney rule anyway?