25 Minutes to Sell You on Christian Hackenburg

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RAMpage28

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I'm not here to do so, but one man is.





I'm not here to necessarily bang the table for this guy, but I think it might add to some interesting conversation and maybe those who have dismissed Hackenburg may change their minds a bit, or at the least give him a second look.

You may recognize the work of the video maker as he previously broke down the Rams and their use of Tavon and Gurley to open up their running game midseason.

 

Dieter the Brock

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I like this guy but his analysis for Sackenburg being a pro-caliber check down master is rather weak

At or before minute 5:55 on the first video against temple - it shows Sackenburg recognizing and identifying the blitzing linebacker only to them get sacked - and he blames it on the shitty o-line only to come back at minute 8:30 or despite the good pass protection he throws it away after so-called making the perfect check-down, and says how this illustrates how great Sackenburg is by being able to see it as a busted play -

so this begs the question -- which one is it? His shitty o-line or his shitty receivers for Sackenburg gaining zero yards in both examples ??

Physically the guy looks good on paper but how can you have your cake and eat it too?

Anyway, I didn't get though the rest of it and there might be something on there completely enlightening, but a good craftsman doesn't blame his tools and the analysis just sounds like a big excuse

That being said, look for Bill O'brien and Houston to play smartest guy in the room2016
 

jrry32

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You could have 2 years to sell me on Hackenberg and you wouldn't succeed. Because Hackenberg has already spent two years convincing me he's not our guy.
 

dieterbrock

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You could have 2 years to sell me on Hackenberg and you wouldn't succeed. Because Hackenberg has already spent two years convincing me he's not our guy.
But what'd ya think after his 1st year?
 

jrry32

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But what'd ya think after his 1st year?

That he was a promising player with #1 overall potential that needed to continue to develop in order to live up to that status.
 

dieterbrock

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That he was a promising player with #1 overall potential that needed to continue to develop in order to live up to that status.
Me too. Even after the first couple games of his sophomore season. But then the wheels came off.
I think Franklin deserves some blame but no way do I want him for the Rams
 

jrry32

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Me too. Even after the first couple games of his sophomore season. But then the wheels came off.
I think Franklin deserves some blame but no way do I want him for the Rams

I agree. But at the same time (in Franklin's defense), his instincts and mental acuity never made that jump that everybody expected. You can excuses things when a guy is a true freshman (like you can with rookie QBs) but you expect to those things progress. Hackenberg's issues didn't.

I can't pound the table for a guy that didn't get better and has never looked like a top prospect on the field. Yea, he has all the tools and I'm sure he looks amazing throwing against air and in 7-on-7 but put him in live game action and he looks very pedestrian to me.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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That he was a promising player with #1 overall potential that needed to continue to develop in order to live up to that status.

And when he lost the tutelage of a coach that could keep him on that trajectory, he went downhill due to a QB coach that couldn't correct his footwork in shotgun and an OC that refused to adjust the offense to keep Hackenberg under center where he was at his best.

I haven't given up on him. I keep saying he will wow them in the off-season on the whiteboard, and with his arm talent with no pass rush. I think he can develop into an NFL starter but needs some things fixed.

I don't think a team like the Rams is the right place for him early because they cannot afford to take their time with him, nor have they proven capable of developing QBs either. They need a natural talent that will succeed despite the coaching, a la Russel Wilson. Besides that Hackenberg has to overcome being shell shocked from three years of terrible pass blocking, which is compounded by his lack of pocket presence and instinct to improvise ( which are my only concerns). He can make some of the prettiest throws you'll see and O'Brien said he was the smartest young man he has ever coached.

I agree with this guy that too many people are selling Christian short and he will end up in Houston or with a team like Green Bay that can see through the stats and be confident they can get him back on track.
 

jrry32

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And when he lost the tutelage of a coach that could keep him on that trajectory, he went downhill due to a QB coach that couldn't correct his footwork in shotgun and an OC that refused to adjust the offense to keep Hackenberg under center where he was at his best.

My problems with Hackenberg aren't the technical flaws. It's his poor pocket instincts and slow mental processing speed.

I haven't given up on him. I keep saying he will wow them in the off-season on the whiteboard, and with his arm talent with no pass rush. I think he can develop into an NFL starter but needs some things fixed.

I don't think a team like the Rams is the right place for him early because they cannot afford to take their time with him, nor have they proven capable of developing QBs either. They need a natural talent that will succeed despite the coaching, a la Russel Wilson. Besides that Hackenberg has to overcome being shell shocked from three years of terrible pass blocking, which is compounded by his lack of pocket presence and instinct to improvise ( which are my only concerns). He can make some of the prettiest throws you'll see and O'Brien said he was the smartest young man he has ever coached.

I agree with this guy that too many people are selling Christian short and he will end up in Houston or with a team like Green Bay that can see through the stats and be confident they can get him back on track.

My problem is that he reminds me of Blaine Gabbert. Very smart guy off the field. Has every tool imaginable. Can make gorgeous throws. But the rest of the game isn't there.

And I think it's worth pointing out that Matt McGloin put up better numbers than Hackenberg did under Bill O'Brien at Penn State. McGloin was reviled by Penn State fans for his incompetency until Bill O'Brien got there. To be fair to Hackenberg, he was a true freshman compared to McGloin being a senior. But where I am going with this was that Hackenberg wasn't doing miraculous things or putting up unheard of numbers as a freshman. People loved his tools, saw the coach he was playing under, the system he was in, and figured that he'd continue to develop...that led to his #1 pick hype. He didn't continue to develop.

Would he have developed under O'Brien? I'd say yes. But would he have become a #1 overall type prospect? That's harder to answer. Mental processing speed and pocket instincts tend to be something you have or you don't. If Hackenberg has never developed in those areas, it's likely because he lacks those attributes. That's my take, at least.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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My problems with Hackenberg aren't the technical flaws. It's his poor pocket instincts and slow mental processing speed.

I don't think he was ready for the level of the barrage that he underwent. Think Derek Carr. I watched every game. He didn't have any time for most of those plays and when he did, the young receivers who were not good route runners were covered or not heading toward getting open. Donovan did not use the pass catching TE and that was the best group of receivers on the team. Franklin prefers in line blocking TEs, which he had none of and made the pass blocking worse btw. There weren't many options. Donovan was fired toward the end of this season. His play calling was shit.

McGloin was reviled by Penn State fans for his incompetency until Bill O'Brien got there.

And he was reviled for good reason. He was terrible before OBrien. He was beyond terrible and he had an attitude, as if he was great. McGloin never had an arm. He could scramble and he had a good offensive line. Four of which are in the NFL. McGloin would not have done anything with the line Hackenberg struggled with. It was so bad that the weak OOC opponents were hammering Hackenberg. This year we saw some of that change as the line progressed but Franklin was operating with two 3rd string DTs at Guard in his first year. The level of inexperience and talent was talent was abysmal. Even the left OT who is starting in the NFL looked aweful. I don't think people comprehend just how bad that line was. It is probably why Christian developed bad footwork in the gun. The opponents knew it was a pass and would blitz him relentlessly. He didn't have 3 seconds to set and throw.

Would he have developed under O'Brien? I'd say yes.

I think he would have too. One thing he lacked was developing his ability to make all his reads and find other targets. 1. his receivers were not good and 2. Donovans scheme and play calling was so bad. I think O'Brien would have helped him with all of that. He should have transferred after his first year with Franklin and Donovan. He considered it but stuck it out because he was a lifelong Penn State fan.

But would he have become a #1 overall type prospect?

I don't know about that. Too hard to predict that at this point. Sam Bradford was #1 overall and his pocket presence was shit too and he tended to hold onto the ball too long. But more than likely he would be somewhere in the top 15. This QB class is a mix of what different coaches prefer IMO. But with OBrien he would have been NFL ready.

Mental processing speed and pocket instincts tend to be something you have or you don't

Yes and no. Again, Derek Carr had it until he got hammered relentlessly in Oakland. Will Hackenberg ever be Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady? Drew Brees good? Doubtful but I think he could be in Flacco's range with the right coaching. Flacco is immobile and needs time to scan the field. His one big playoff performance his offensive line was playing incredibly well. It all came together for them at the end of that season. Suddenly people were asking if Flacco was the best QB in the league. This year with poor receivers and average Oline play he was more middle of the road.

I don't want the Rams to take him because as of now, I don't think they have the staff to correct his problems. I don't think they have the staff to correct anyones problems. Which really sucks for us Rams fans. But I do think if Hackenberg ends up with OBrien or the equivalent that he can be a good starter in the NFL.
 

jrry32

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I don't think he was ready for the level of the barrage that he underwent. Think Derek Carr. I watched every game. He didn't have any time for most of those plays and when he did, the young receivers who were not good route runners were covered or not heading toward getting open. Donovan did not use the pass catching TE and that was the best group of receivers on the team. Franklin prefers in line blocking TEs, which he had none of and made the pass blocking worse btw. There weren't many options. Donovan was fired toward the end of this season. His play calling was crap.



And he was reviled for good reason. He was terrible before OBrien. He was beyond terrible and he had an attitude, as if he was great. McGloin never had an arm. He could scramble and he had a good offensive line. Four of which are in the NFL. McGloin would not have done anything with the line Hackenberg struggled with. It was so bad that the weak OOC opponents were hammering Hackenberg. This year we saw some of that change as the line progressed but Franklin was operating with two 3rd string DTs at Guard in his first year. The level of inexperience and talent was talent was abysmal. Even the left OT who is starting in the NFL looked aweful. I don't think people comprehend just how bad that line was. It is probably why Christian developed bad footwork in the gun. The opponents knew it was a pass and would blitz him relentlessly. He didn't have 3 seconds to set and throw.



I think he would have too. One thing he lacked was developing his ability to make all his reads and find other targets. 1. his receivers were not good and 2. Donovans scheme and play calling was so bad. I think O'Brien would have helped him with all of that. He should have transferred after his first year with Franklin and Donovan. He considered it but stuck it out because he was a lifelong Penn State fan.



I don't know about that. Too hard to predict that at this point. Sam Bradford was #1 overall and his pocket presence was crap too and he tended to hold onto the ball too long. But more than likely he would be somewhere in the top 15. This QB class is a mix of what different coaches prefer IMO. But with OBrien he would have been NFL ready.



Yes and no. Again, Derek Carr had it until he got hammered relentlessly in Oakland. Will Hackenberg ever be Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady? Drew Brees good? Doubtful but I think he could be in Flacco's range with the right coaching. Flacco is immobile and needs time to scan the field. His one big playoff performance his offensive line was playing incredibly well. It all came together for them at the end of that season. Suddenly people were asking if Flacco was the best QB in the league. This year with poor receivers and average Oline play he was more middle of the road.

I don't want the Rams to take him because as of now, I don't think they have the staff to correct his problems. I don't think they have the staff to correct anyones problems. Which really sucks for us Rams fans. But I do think if Hackenberg ends up with OBrien or the equivalent that he can be a good starter in the NFL.

These are all fair points. There are only some minor things I'd disagree with (or like to point out).
McGloin would not have done anything with the line Hackenberg struggled with. It was so bad that the weak OOC opponents were hammering Hackenberg.

The past couple of years, I'd agree. But they had pretty much the same OL under BOB. McGloin put up better numbers. But again, I recognize that Hackenberg was a true freshman and McGloin was a senior.

Yes and no. Again, Derek Carr had it until he got hammered relentlessly in Oakland. Will Hackenberg ever be Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady? Drew Brees good? Doubtful but I think he could be in Flacco's range with the right coaching. Flacco is immobile and needs time to scan the field. His one big playoff performance his offensive line was playing incredibly well. It all came together for them at the end of that season. Suddenly people were asking if Flacco was the best QB in the league. This year with poor receivers and average Oline play he was more middle of the road.

I assume you mean David Carr in Houston? Derek had a good year in Oakland this year.

I will say that I think Flacco is more mobile than you give him credit for and Flacco has been dominant in the playoffs since 2010. He has 24 TDs to 4 Ints and a 104.4 QB Rating over those 10 playoff games. He's been insanely good. Yea, he was middle of the road this year but he had nothing at WR once Steve Smith went down. He's an Eli level QB.

As for Hackenberg, just my opinion but I saw the pocket instinct issues before he got pulverized. It wasn't like Bulger, Carr, Couch, etc. that got beat to hell and developed happy feet. Hackenberg just didn't seem to have it before he was getting killed. But again, that's just what I saw.
 

Merlin

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He will go to a team like the Patriots who can afford to sit him on their depth chart and rebuild him from the ground up. Rams did that already with Mannion, who at least had a really strong season the year before as a Junior, so I don't see them considering another project.

Another guy like that is Hogan with his funky throwing motion. Whoever drafts him is probably going to need to rework his mechanics. Both those guys are boom or bust type picks IMO, which demonstrates how deep this QB class is. It's a really impressive group.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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He will go to a team like the Patriots who can afford to sit him on their depth chart and rebuild him from the ground up. Rams did that already with Mannion, who at least had a really strong season the year before as a Junior, so I don't see them considering another project.

Another guy like that is Hogan with his funky throwing motion. Whoever drafts him is probably going to need to rework his mechanics. Both those guys are boom or bust type picks IMO, which demonstrates how deep this QB class is. It's a really impressive group.

I h a 've never seen Hogan, but as I said about Hackenberg this is not the staff to take on a reclamation project, nor the time. A team with a good QB should pick guys like them while they still can take a risk.
 

dieterbrock

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I h a 've never seen Hogan, but as I said about Hackenberg this is not the staff to take on a reclamation project, nor the time. A team with a good QB should pick guys like them while they still can take a risk.
Exactly. The Rams already have their Hogan/Hackenburg on the roster. His name is Sean Mannion.
Either draft a starting QB or don't waste the pick on another "project"
Rams only have 6 picks
 

LACHAMP46

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guy has talent, and should be considered...esp if we want to grab an elite wr, and our QB coach & OC think they can develop these 2nd tier QB's (Hackenberg, Cook, Hogan, Brissett)....

But I'm hoping for Wentz or Goff. Lynch is a great fallback option too....