How much of a difference does having an elite guard make?

[Boffo97]

...as opposed to "merely" a good guard?

Let's leave the discussion of whether Robinson/Matthews would make elite guards (or elite tackles) for other threads. I've seen a lot of questioning of whether a #1 WR helps your offense... not much on the question of whether an elite guard really helps your offense more than just a good guard does.

Edit: This question is NOT about whether elite is better than good. That's obvious by definition. It's about whether an elite guard is such a huge advantage in winning games over a good guard as to justify picking an elite guard with a premium pick.

 

[NJRamsFan]

I don't mean to be a jerk but if you picked anything other than "Yes! Dumbest question ever!" You're actually wrong. The question reads does an elite guard help help an offense more than just a good guard...I don't see how thats even debatable

 

[Boffo97]

I don't mean to be a jerk but if you picked anything other than "Yes! Dumbest question ever!" You're actually wrong. The question reads does an elite guard help help an offense more than just a good guard...I don't see how thats even debatable

It's apparently debatable than an elite WR helps an offense more than just a good one does.

I've spoken before about how guard has traditionally been seen as a second tier position in the draft (with exceptions). That would seem to indicate that it's seen as a position where it's not necessarily vital to have a great one as opposed to a good one.

 

[blackbart]

Not sure about the dumbest question part but yes they undoubtedly make any team better. Good guards give up pressure in the middle and miss blocks in space, great guards make people run the other way.

Ask Emmitt Smith what he thinks about Larry Allen

OJ Simpson Joe DeLamielleure

Paul Hornung Jerry Kramer

Anyone else love Gene Upshaw or Tom Mack??

 

[blackbart]

It's apparently debatable than an elite WR helps an offense more than just a good one does.

I've spoken before about how guard has traditionally been seen as a second tier position in the draft (with exceptions). That would seem to indicate that it's seen as a position where it's not necessarily vital to have a great one as opposed to a good one.

I swear you said we were leaving that out of this discussion, and no one has been debating that.

 

[NJRamsFan]

It's apparently debatable than an elite WR helps an offense more than just a good one does.

I've spoken before about how guard has traditionally been seen as a second tier position in the draft (with exceptions). That would seem to indicate that it's seen as a position where it's not necessarily vital to have a great one as opposed to a good one.

You're compacting two different points into one. I don't think anyone has ever said "id rather have a good wide receiver than an elite one". That literally makes no sense, how can one thing be categorized as good and one thing as elite and the good one considered better? No coach, Gm, owner, or even fan would ever rather have a good player over a great one, nor would they think the good one is helping them more.

the last line you wrote goes off on a completely different train of thought. It is a different question all together, now you're asking is it completely necessary to have elite guards to win as opposed to whether an elite player is better than a good one.

 

[Rams and Gators]

An elite punter helps a team better than a good one...otherwise the Jags wouldn't have selected Anger over Wilson.

 

[Boffo97]

You're compacting two different points into one. I don't think anyone has ever said "id rather have a good wide receiver than an elite one". That literally makes no sense, how can one thing be categorized as good and one thing as elite and the good one considered better? No coach, Gm, owner, or even fan would ever rather have a good player over a great one, nor would they think the good one is helping them more.

the last line you wrote goes off on a completely different train of thought. It is a different question all together, now you're asking is it completely necessary to have elite guards to win as opposed to whether an elite player is than a good one.

I've seen quite a few times recently people talking about how a #1 WR wouldn't help our offense.

And I don't think that is a different question. It's the same one. Does an elite guard over a good guard give you enough of an advantage in winning games that it's worth a major investment?

I swear you said we were leaving that out of this discussion, and no one has been debating that.

I said I was leaving out whether or not Robinson or Matthews was elite (at either guard or tackle). I didn't say one word about that.

 

[NJRamsFan]

I've seen quite a few times recently people talking about how a #1 WR wouldn't help our offense.

And I don't think that is a different question. It's the same one. Does an elite guard over a good guard give you enough of an advantage in winning games that it's worth a major investment?

LOL...ill make this simple

1) I would love to see where anyone says an ELITE wr wouldn't help us, I'm sure what they are saying is its not our most pressing need or we can still win games without one

2) You can't adjust your question accordingly as I respond. You didn't say ANYTHING about being worth a major investment or if our assets are better spent elsewhere. The question you asked is does an ELITE guard help an offense more than a GOOD guard and to that my answer is without question....its actually more of a fact by definition elite>good

 

[Angry Ram]

To me positions like guard, safety, LB...if you have a decent to good one, you're set. You don't really notice a huge difference b/w say, Logan Mankins and Harvey Dahl. Individually, yeah Logan Mankins owns Harvey, but through the course of a game it's not noticeable on a consistent basis.

 

[Boffo97]

I might have misphrased the question in the poll slightly. but the question in the title of the thread always has been "How much of a DIFFERENCE does having an elite guard make?" That pretty clearly is about whether or not there's appreciable difference in us winning games... and thus, yes, it does go beyond the obvious statement of elite>good.

Is an elite guard such a huge advantage as to justify us making a top 10 pick? That question is not so obvious as "elite > good". As Rams and Gator facetiously pointed out... Anger may have been an elite punter, but we're doing just fine with Hekker (who was undrafted).

 

[blackbart]

I've seen quite a few times recently people talking about how a #1 WR wouldn't help our offense.

And I don't think that is a different question. It's the same one. Does an elite guard over a good guard give you enough of an advantage in winning games that it's worth a major investment?


I said I was leaving out whether or not Robinson or Matthews was elite (at either guard or tackle). I didn't say one word about that.

Whether or not a guy who someone thinks has the potential to be a #1 WR is not the same as a great WR is better to have than a good WR.

Anyone who says they would be ok with having good players instead of great players is a fool.

 

[Boffo97]

Whether or not a guy who someone thinks has the potential to be a #1 WR is not the same as a great WR is better to have than a good WR.

Anyone who says they would be ok with having good players instead of great players is a fool.

I've made a clarifying edit to the OP. I apologize for the confusion.

 

[fearsomefour]

Is an "elite" G going to fix an offense and propel a team to the Superbowl on his own? No. Would Dallas' inside run game been the same without Larry Allen? No.
The real question (in my humble opinion is) what kind of line as a unit are we going to field next year. Because the offense line makes up 45% of the players on every single offensive play I think it is nearly impossible to win in a consistant way without a good line. Does a team need an "elite" G to have a very good line? no. Does it help? heck yes.
So, framing questions in a way to feel warm and fuzzy about a downgrade (at least at this point) at RG is not the concern, where is the line going? That is the question.

 

[iced]

2 Really good guards are better than one elite one

 

[NJRamsFan]

If this question is in reference to our current situation we wouldn't be drafting a guard top 10 we would be drafting a future tackle top 10

 

[nighttrain]

I don't mean to be a jerk but if you picked anything other than "Yes! Dumbest question ever!" You're actually wrong. The question reads does an elite guard help help an offense more than just a good guard...I don't see how thats even debatable

Just depends on how good is GOOD? very good not much, just average, a lot
train

 

[Ram Quixote]

The 2005 Seahawks with G Hutchinson made Shawn Alexander look All-World. The next season, without him, Alexander looked like JAG.

 

[jjab360]

An elite guard in comparison to just a good guard helps a team just as much as an elite tackle in comparison to just a good tackle.

 

[jjab360]

The 2005 Seahawks with G Hutchinson made Shawn Alexander look All-World. The next season, without him, Alexander looked like JAG.

With Saffold at G, the Rams ran for 200 yards at 5.5 YPC against the Seahawks. When we moved him to OT and he got injured, we ran for 13 yards at 0.7 YPC.