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- Feb 9, 2014
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- Peter
Too early for them to chat about their upcoming game against the Rams. Here they bat around their three QB's. Btw for the most part these Browns fans can't stand Johnny Football.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Johnny Flipping off Washington's Bench
He's not doing himself any favors. I could see us going in another direction next year if this keeps up and ten fold if he continues to struggle.
--------------------
He's a punk bitch. Instead of other teams giving him respect they are just going to try to hurt him.
--------------------
His stock went up in my book. Id be frustrated as hell, the penalties, the dropped passes, being under a microscope, fighting for your career. You guys flip out on this board when someone looks at you wrong. Nice to see he is human.
--------------------
I actually think that's badass. Juvenile as hell, but kinda badass. Stupid as hell, but badass too.
--------------------
Douche. He's gonna get wrecked by this league.
--------------------
a badass steps to the bench and knocks someone out. A bitch flies the bird. Your hero sucks as an NFL QB and he's a punk bitch. Neither surprise many of us. On a side note anyone notice there is not much posting tonight from members with "tex" I'm their name?? Lol
--------------------
At least we know what ESPN will be talking about for the next two weeks.
--------------------
I'd prefer he act like a professional and keep his damn finger wrapped around the ball while he throws a TD to shut up their bench. My comment was more a reflection on what badass was to the poster. Listen if you can't see Johnny immature brat lacking discipline your heads in the sand.
-------------------
Its hard when you have the glory of High School and College Football. He was on top of the world. Now, he is just a rookie QB trying to become a starter an a mediocre team. He better get used to getting fucked with and grow some thick skin.
------------------
I really can't wait until someone lays this prick out...
I mean what a POS he is! You don't see the likes of Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers, etc. pulling this kind of shit.
But hey... only in Cleveland right? What a waste!!
------------------
Understand that Maziel is only 3 years removed from High School Football. Comparing him to seasoned pro's that have made it in this league is a bit of a stretch. Manziel's gesture shows that he is young and immature and has a lot to learn. As I said, let him learn from it... if he doesn't, then we have issues.
-----------------
Poor decisions aren't mistakes. One poor decision is likely of little concern. If you have been following him long you would see however that he makes one poor decision after the other and that is a concern. Whoever made the decision to draft him clearly mis judged his character along with the ability to translate his playground football style into NFL football.
----------------
Hoyers bad passes = drops/hard catches
Manziel bad passes = dangerous ints
Shaw bad passes = ??? havent seen one yet
---------------
Im sick of hearing excuses for this punk!
He should know better but clearly he is missing something... And those guys I mentioned weren't caught throw the bird to the opposing team's bench during their rookie preseason games. They have class, this asshole has none!
He will be a big time bust in the NFL if he continues to let his supersized ego surpass his puny little body.
I hope he gets his shit together. I really do. He is a media circus and he needs to watch what he does every step of the way. And i believe that right now he cant handle the spotlight. In time perhaps, but now. Fuck no!
-----------------
Everyone breathe. It's the 2nd preseason game.
Granted, we looked like shite last night, but again, it's extremely early
and it's a long, long season. Last year the Puke spent the first month
and a half of the season sucking large ass, but recovered and almost
made the playoffs. We started 0-3 but after 6 games we were in first place.
My bigger concern is how disorganized we looked. We did not look like we were
ready to play, like we were unprepared, and that is on the coaching staff.
------------------
Manziel has 27 cameras or more looking at him. He should know better than to do an obscene gesture. Hes too immature to handle the spotlight right now.
Football might be a game of hitting one another, but there should be a mutual respect between both teams. And when a whiny little punk bitch like Manziel has to say Fuck You Washington by means of his middle finger because he can't run the offense, than he is clearly breaking that mutual respect and showing all of us that he cant take the heat. Manning didnt throw the bird at the Hawks in the SB even though they ate his ass for dinner and spit it back out onto the field.
---------------
Let's just calm down a little. JM is still a kid who gets media attention 24/7. He can't fart without it being broadcasted.
But this just shows how he's definitely not ready to start. He is still young, immature, and clearly can't handle the pressure. Defenses are going to be gunning for him. He's still learning playbook. Just let the media stir and everything die out in a year or two and see if he has anything to offer. Right now it looks like he isn't ready.
---------------
The Redskins said they were talking, and saying everybody was faster than in college,
and JF flipped them off?
Redskins thought it was funny. Really smart people do stupid stuff only one time.
We'll see how it goes. I thought the offense's timing was off for a "real" game.
Next week that could be completely different.
Shaw was impressive. I figure the offense will be fine before the regular season starts, and that's what counts.
----------------
Haden himself said ppl were tearing apart Johnny on the sidelines and stands. Said some hurtful things no doubt. JF is still young and is dealing with a whole new stage. Time is what he needs
----------------
Lets just face it guys.
JM is not ready just as the Browns aren't ready to take that next step towards playoff contenders. There are too many question marks on offense. And lets face it, our Defense may be good, but it wont carry us too far if we cant score touchdowns... 4-12 this year is what Cleveland will be. If they can make a splash in FA and get some talent on the offensive side of the ball, we may have a shot at 8-8 in 2015... And that is being cautiously optimistic
----------------
Here is the real concern with what he did.
The other team GOT TO HIM! They got in his head. He reacted to trash talk.
That is not a good sign. He should not allow the other team to get to him like that.
It would have been "bad ass" had he jawed face-to-face with the opponent. Or had he stood straight up in the middle of the field, facing the Redskins and flipped them off. THAT is "bad ass"
Running away as you holding up your middle finger is not being bad ass or being a leader.
-------------------
Connor Shaw
Best QB on the roster tonight. Don't give a shit who he was playing against.
-----------------
8/9 and 123 yards on two drives. The first of which they let the RB ruin.
----------------
Shaw is a much better QB than Johnny, plain and simple. He is bigger, faster, and smarter.
----------------
It's hard to believe that the Brown's fans (and media)have choked on the Manzel cool-aid. You have a quarterback right under your nose that may be the best rookie in the league in Conner Shaw. He led the University of South Carolina to three consecutive 11 win seasons and last year he only threw one interception. He is a very smart player and plays with class. You will never see him flip off the other team, he'll just beat you day in , day out with his running and passing.
The players will respect him and play hard for him because of his character. If they would had kicked the extra point and gone into overtime he would have won them the game. The more he is in the game the better he gets. He was the only highlight of the entire game. Give the kid a chance and allow him to get you out of the cellar!
-----------------
Well, at least the entire nation didn't see our 2 QBs shit the bed. Oh wait, they did........ Well at least the entire nation got to see who the best QB on or roster really is.
-----------------
Shaw was the only QB on the Browns roster that actually played like an NFL QB. Hoyer, who's been practicing with the 1's and should have his timing on routes/throws down, simply couldn't toss an accurate ball to anyone. You can say the same for Manziel, who wouldn't stay in the pocket if you cemented his feet into the ground 7 yards behind Alex Mack.
I'm officially on the Shaw bandwagon. Connor Freakin' Football!
-----------------
Brian Hoyer
Brian Hoyer was undrafted and cut by 3 different teams. I don't know how many great NFL QBs have taken that path before they turned on the greatness, but I know it's not many.
You can find me a similar story, or another long shot but the doesn't change anything. It's called data. Data can show you probabilities and can even rule some things out of being considered a reasonable expectation. Saying "Well this guy was drafted here and he became this" is relying on individual antidotal evidence and saying it nullifies the populous data. It does not. It's an outlier. Outliers can not be reasonably expected.
For instance a Running Back is going to run a better 40 time than a Lineman. Data proves this. Now there has been a lineman that has run a better 40 time than a running back before, but you can not have a reasonable expectation of that outcome. It's highly unlikely.
On a grander scale look at airplane travel. Data shows the safest form of commercial travel is by airplane. Planes do crash but they're so rare that you can not reasonably expect any plane you're on to crash. You could fly everyday multiple times and never die in a plane crash. Though they do happen, that doesn't change the rule the data has set.
If you jump out of a plane without a parachute, you will die. Data supports this. Now you can google and find people who have LIVED falling from planes. That doesn't change the rule. If you jump out of a airplane without a parachute, you will die. No reasonable expectation otherwise.
Brian Hoyer is a undrafted QB that has been cut 3 times. There's a reason for that. He's not going to be a great QB. You can say others have, but you have no reasonable expectation that he will. The data on that situation is overwhelming. Now of course you will all say something about Manziel I'm sure and you're right, first round draft picks don't always pan out. However the data will show there is a reasonable expectation that a first round draft pick will work out.
If you had to bet your life on Brian Hoyer making the Hall of Fame would you?
Now once again because you always have to respond with Manziel, I'll tell you right now I wouldn't bet my life on Manziel making the Hall of Fame.
HOWEVER if I had to take either Hoyer or Manziel and for my life I had to bet which one would make the Hall of Fame, I'd bet Manziel EVERYTIME all the time and so would you. Why? Because of the data. One was evaluated and undrafted and then evaluated by 3 other teams and cut from their team. The other won an award as the best college player, then was evaluated by NFL teams and chosen in the first round. The odds are much higher there.
If you think Hoyer is going to be a great QB, then you're fighting data. You're standing at the open door of a plane telling me you could survive jumping without a parachute. I'm telling you that you can't, but you're saying that you saw on the news that someone else did it.
The result is inevitable. History will not be kind to choosing against the data.
That's the last you'll see me speak about Brian Hoyer. Have at it.
-----------------------
I dont think Hoyer has to be great. He just has to win. He proved that he could last season. Manage the offense and protect the ball. With the defense the Browns have thats really all he has to do. Although i would love to see Manziel start the season i do know that Hoyer needs another chance to build on what he did last season. Do i think he is the real thing? I dont know. He is a little inconsistent but so would a rookie QB. I thought the best throw of the game was the pass Hoyer threw to Austin that was dropped. That was a perfect throw. I kindof feel sorry for all these quarterbacks with the shit they have to throw to.
-----------------------
Kurt Warner. Undrafted signed by Green Bay cut and ended up in St. Louis after a long stint in arena league and NFL Europe. Pro bowl Super Bowl champion.
Tony romo. Undrafted pro bowl. If Dallas would ever get a defense he may actually win a playoff game.
Point is sun shines on a dogs but once in a while and if Hoyer outplays manziel he deserves it.
-------------------
And guys who have been following the Browns for 50+ years know how it's going to work out short term.
Yeah I watched Manzeil's A&M highlights tossing it up to Evans being triple covered, and Mike bailing his ass out. Hate to tell you that shit doesn't work in the NFL.
----------------
Is it data or is it history?
History says a QB under 6 feet will win a superbowl every few decades, since Wilson just won one with the Seahawks it's going to be a long wait for Manziel.
History says a QB drafted by Cleveland is going to suck.
History says a QB drafted at the number 22 spot in the first round is going to crash and burn.
Need i go on?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Johnny Flipping off Washington's Bench
He's not doing himself any favors. I could see us going in another direction next year if this keeps up and ten fold if he continues to struggle.
--------------------
He's a punk bitch. Instead of other teams giving him respect they are just going to try to hurt him.
--------------------
His stock went up in my book. Id be frustrated as hell, the penalties, the dropped passes, being under a microscope, fighting for your career. You guys flip out on this board when someone looks at you wrong. Nice to see he is human.
--------------------
I actually think that's badass. Juvenile as hell, but kinda badass. Stupid as hell, but badass too.
--------------------
Douche. He's gonna get wrecked by this league.
--------------------
a badass steps to the bench and knocks someone out. A bitch flies the bird. Your hero sucks as an NFL QB and he's a punk bitch. Neither surprise many of us. On a side note anyone notice there is not much posting tonight from members with "tex" I'm their name?? Lol
--------------------
At least we know what ESPN will be talking about for the next two weeks.
--------------------
I'd prefer he act like a professional and keep his damn finger wrapped around the ball while he throws a TD to shut up their bench. My comment was more a reflection on what badass was to the poster. Listen if you can't see Johnny immature brat lacking discipline your heads in the sand.
-------------------
Its hard when you have the glory of High School and College Football. He was on top of the world. Now, he is just a rookie QB trying to become a starter an a mediocre team. He better get used to getting fucked with and grow some thick skin.
------------------
I really can't wait until someone lays this prick out...
I mean what a POS he is! You don't see the likes of Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers, etc. pulling this kind of shit.
But hey... only in Cleveland right? What a waste!!
------------------
Understand that Maziel is only 3 years removed from High School Football. Comparing him to seasoned pro's that have made it in this league is a bit of a stretch. Manziel's gesture shows that he is young and immature and has a lot to learn. As I said, let him learn from it... if he doesn't, then we have issues.
-----------------
Poor decisions aren't mistakes. One poor decision is likely of little concern. If you have been following him long you would see however that he makes one poor decision after the other and that is a concern. Whoever made the decision to draft him clearly mis judged his character along with the ability to translate his playground football style into NFL football.
----------------
Hoyers bad passes = drops/hard catches
Manziel bad passes = dangerous ints
Shaw bad passes = ??? havent seen one yet
---------------
Im sick of hearing excuses for this punk!
He should know better but clearly he is missing something... And those guys I mentioned weren't caught throw the bird to the opposing team's bench during their rookie preseason games. They have class, this asshole has none!
He will be a big time bust in the NFL if he continues to let his supersized ego surpass his puny little body.
I hope he gets his shit together. I really do. He is a media circus and he needs to watch what he does every step of the way. And i believe that right now he cant handle the spotlight. In time perhaps, but now. Fuck no!
-----------------
Everyone breathe. It's the 2nd preseason game.
Granted, we looked like shite last night, but again, it's extremely early
and it's a long, long season. Last year the Puke spent the first month
and a half of the season sucking large ass, but recovered and almost
made the playoffs. We started 0-3 but after 6 games we were in first place.
My bigger concern is how disorganized we looked. We did not look like we were
ready to play, like we were unprepared, and that is on the coaching staff.
------------------
Manziel has 27 cameras or more looking at him. He should know better than to do an obscene gesture. Hes too immature to handle the spotlight right now.
Football might be a game of hitting one another, but there should be a mutual respect between both teams. And when a whiny little punk bitch like Manziel has to say Fuck You Washington by means of his middle finger because he can't run the offense, than he is clearly breaking that mutual respect and showing all of us that he cant take the heat. Manning didnt throw the bird at the Hawks in the SB even though they ate his ass for dinner and spit it back out onto the field.
---------------
Let's just calm down a little. JM is still a kid who gets media attention 24/7. He can't fart without it being broadcasted.
But this just shows how he's definitely not ready to start. He is still young, immature, and clearly can't handle the pressure. Defenses are going to be gunning for him. He's still learning playbook. Just let the media stir and everything die out in a year or two and see if he has anything to offer. Right now it looks like he isn't ready.
---------------
The Redskins said they were talking, and saying everybody was faster than in college,
and JF flipped them off?
Redskins thought it was funny. Really smart people do stupid stuff only one time.
We'll see how it goes. I thought the offense's timing was off for a "real" game.
Next week that could be completely different.
Shaw was impressive. I figure the offense will be fine before the regular season starts, and that's what counts.
----------------
Haden himself said ppl were tearing apart Johnny on the sidelines and stands. Said some hurtful things no doubt. JF is still young and is dealing with a whole new stage. Time is what he needs
----------------
Lets just face it guys.
JM is not ready just as the Browns aren't ready to take that next step towards playoff contenders. There are too many question marks on offense. And lets face it, our Defense may be good, but it wont carry us too far if we cant score touchdowns... 4-12 this year is what Cleveland will be. If they can make a splash in FA and get some talent on the offensive side of the ball, we may have a shot at 8-8 in 2015... And that is being cautiously optimistic
----------------
Here is the real concern with what he did.
The other team GOT TO HIM! They got in his head. He reacted to trash talk.
That is not a good sign. He should not allow the other team to get to him like that.
It would have been "bad ass" had he jawed face-to-face with the opponent. Or had he stood straight up in the middle of the field, facing the Redskins and flipped them off. THAT is "bad ass"
Running away as you holding up your middle finger is not being bad ass or being a leader.
-------------------
Connor Shaw
Best QB on the roster tonight. Don't give a shit who he was playing against.
-----------------
8/9 and 123 yards on two drives. The first of which they let the RB ruin.
----------------
Shaw is a much better QB than Johnny, plain and simple. He is bigger, faster, and smarter.
----------------
It's hard to believe that the Brown's fans (and media)have choked on the Manzel cool-aid. You have a quarterback right under your nose that may be the best rookie in the league in Conner Shaw. He led the University of South Carolina to three consecutive 11 win seasons and last year he only threw one interception. He is a very smart player and plays with class. You will never see him flip off the other team, he'll just beat you day in , day out with his running and passing.
The players will respect him and play hard for him because of his character. If they would had kicked the extra point and gone into overtime he would have won them the game. The more he is in the game the better he gets. He was the only highlight of the entire game. Give the kid a chance and allow him to get you out of the cellar!
-----------------
Well, at least the entire nation didn't see our 2 QBs shit the bed. Oh wait, they did........ Well at least the entire nation got to see who the best QB on or roster really is.
-----------------
Shaw was the only QB on the Browns roster that actually played like an NFL QB. Hoyer, who's been practicing with the 1's and should have his timing on routes/throws down, simply couldn't toss an accurate ball to anyone. You can say the same for Manziel, who wouldn't stay in the pocket if you cemented his feet into the ground 7 yards behind Alex Mack.
I'm officially on the Shaw bandwagon. Connor Freakin' Football!
-----------------
Brian Hoyer
Brian Hoyer was undrafted and cut by 3 different teams. I don't know how many great NFL QBs have taken that path before they turned on the greatness, but I know it's not many.
You can find me a similar story, or another long shot but the doesn't change anything. It's called data. Data can show you probabilities and can even rule some things out of being considered a reasonable expectation. Saying "Well this guy was drafted here and he became this" is relying on individual antidotal evidence and saying it nullifies the populous data. It does not. It's an outlier. Outliers can not be reasonably expected.
For instance a Running Back is going to run a better 40 time than a Lineman. Data proves this. Now there has been a lineman that has run a better 40 time than a running back before, but you can not have a reasonable expectation of that outcome. It's highly unlikely.
On a grander scale look at airplane travel. Data shows the safest form of commercial travel is by airplane. Planes do crash but they're so rare that you can not reasonably expect any plane you're on to crash. You could fly everyday multiple times and never die in a plane crash. Though they do happen, that doesn't change the rule the data has set.
If you jump out of a plane without a parachute, you will die. Data supports this. Now you can google and find people who have LIVED falling from planes. That doesn't change the rule. If you jump out of a airplane without a parachute, you will die. No reasonable expectation otherwise.
Brian Hoyer is a undrafted QB that has been cut 3 times. There's a reason for that. He's not going to be a great QB. You can say others have, but you have no reasonable expectation that he will. The data on that situation is overwhelming. Now of course you will all say something about Manziel I'm sure and you're right, first round draft picks don't always pan out. However the data will show there is a reasonable expectation that a first round draft pick will work out.
If you had to bet your life on Brian Hoyer making the Hall of Fame would you?
Now once again because you always have to respond with Manziel, I'll tell you right now I wouldn't bet my life on Manziel making the Hall of Fame.
HOWEVER if I had to take either Hoyer or Manziel and for my life I had to bet which one would make the Hall of Fame, I'd bet Manziel EVERYTIME all the time and so would you. Why? Because of the data. One was evaluated and undrafted and then evaluated by 3 other teams and cut from their team. The other won an award as the best college player, then was evaluated by NFL teams and chosen in the first round. The odds are much higher there.
If you think Hoyer is going to be a great QB, then you're fighting data. You're standing at the open door of a plane telling me you could survive jumping without a parachute. I'm telling you that you can't, but you're saying that you saw on the news that someone else did it.
The result is inevitable. History will not be kind to choosing against the data.
That's the last you'll see me speak about Brian Hoyer. Have at it.
-----------------------
I dont think Hoyer has to be great. He just has to win. He proved that he could last season. Manage the offense and protect the ball. With the defense the Browns have thats really all he has to do. Although i would love to see Manziel start the season i do know that Hoyer needs another chance to build on what he did last season. Do i think he is the real thing? I dont know. He is a little inconsistent but so would a rookie QB. I thought the best throw of the game was the pass Hoyer threw to Austin that was dropped. That was a perfect throw. I kindof feel sorry for all these quarterbacks with the shit they have to throw to.
-----------------------
Kurt Warner. Undrafted signed by Green Bay cut and ended up in St. Louis after a long stint in arena league and NFL Europe. Pro bowl Super Bowl champion.
Tony romo. Undrafted pro bowl. If Dallas would ever get a defense he may actually win a playoff game.
Point is sun shines on a dogs but once in a while and if Hoyer outplays manziel he deserves it.
-------------------
And guys who have been following the Browns for 50+ years know how it's going to work out short term.
Yeah I watched Manzeil's A&M highlights tossing it up to Evans being triple covered, and Mike bailing his ass out. Hate to tell you that shit doesn't work in the NFL.
----------------
Is it data or is it history?
History says a QB under 6 feet will win a superbowl every few decades, since Wilson just won one with the Seahawks it's going to be a long wait for Manziel.
History says a QB drafted by Cleveland is going to suck.
History says a QB drafted at the number 22 spot in the first round is going to crash and burn.
Need i go on?
