Target To Eliminate Signs Specifying Boys Or Girls Toys

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Athos

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Where are you getting that we are telling kids to explore it? I don't see that anywhere. I'm just saying we give them the freedom to do what they will in discovering themselves.

As for gender therapy as kids. That's an issue with the parents and again goes back to adults trying to control everything only in this case out of fear.

And that's frankly a decision that should only be made by a person of legal consenting age and can fully understand what a sex change program will do. So those parents are fucked up. I'm not advocating that.

But I see no psychological issues just letting kids figure themselves out on their own without us telling them what they should or shouldn't be.
 

Ramhusker

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Where are you getting that we are telling kids to explore it? I don't see that anywhere. I'm just saying we give them the freedom to do what they will in discovering themselves.

As for gender therapy as kids. That's an issue with the parents and again goes back to adults trying to control everything only in this case out of fear.

And that's frankly a decision that should only be made by a person of legal consenting age and can fully understand what a sex change program will do. So those parents are freaked up. I'm not advocating that.

But I see no psychological issues just letting kids figure themselves out on their own without us telling them what they should or shouldn't be.
I agree. Just let kids be. There's no need to even talk about gender in school. It shouldn't be a part of any curriculum. Kids are naturally curious. That little bean is a sponge on steroids. They'll ask those they trust the most just about anything. Parents have to step up to the plate when those questions come across the table. Target didn't need to announce anything. They really didn't do anything that a kid would notice anyways. The toy manufacturers and their distributors have the most say there with the marketing, packaging, and influence of product placement on the shelf.
 

Ramhusker

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WOW! strongly disagree. do you have kids?
Yes, three. What part of education do you think is gender critical? History? Science? Math? English? Geography? PE? Economics?
 

Mackeyser

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In the context of this conversation, you all know that gender and sex do not necessarily equate, right?

So, while it is impossible to discuss biological sexual assignment (male, female, hermaphroditism and asexual organisms), it is a far different and arguably far more complicated matter to discuss human sexuality and try to break down the differences between sex and gender.

So, should sex be discussed in school? Well, beyond John Oliver's once again outstanding take on the nation's generally poor and generally poorly delivered sexual education, it's pretty clear it should. We force immunization because of the effect a sick person has on others. STDs and teen pregnancies affect society, too.

Should we discuss gender, though? That's a much harder question and outside of a specific sociology or human sexuality or perhaps a module on human biology, I wouldn't. And that's because gender specifically isn't about sex (as in reproduction) and it's complicated and, frankly, the language to fully communicate even gender status isn't developed. So, a biological boy can identify as a girl, but that doesn't inherently mean anything else. That girl may like boys, girls, both or neither and have no attractions at all. And that can either be pretty straight-forward or awfully confusing depending on the circumstances. One example is the question of non-binary pronouns. If a biological boy identifies as a girl, we have a language problem and the current options are horrendous. No ones going to learn 50 different pronouns. But that's just one example.

In order to properly discuss a topic in school, a curriculum needs to be developed. For that to happen, there needs to be some kind of empirical standard upon which to build that. Without a common language, that can't happen. Not yet.

That's not to say that the subject should be verboten. Rather, until standards can be put into place, the subject of gender should just be handled with respect and diligence.

So in that respect, though he may not agree with me, I partially agree with Husker at least for now.

With respect to the OP and Target, I think too little credit is given to the pressures to conform by peers and parents. We all know or have met parents who wouldn't let their boys near a pink toy for anything nor would they let their girls near anything that wasn't frilly or pink. There are plenty of parents (male and female) who would love to assign gender roles and have us all stick to them and so see nothing wrong with gender biased stuff like that. Target changing sends a message that overtly gender oriented toys may not sell as well because the store isn't any longer set up to foster that gender gap.

Hopefully, this leads to better toys for all kids.
 

beej

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Yes, three. What part of education do you think is gender critical? History? Science? Math? English? Geography? PE? Economics?
Social studies, english, science, health, and religion (if it is a parochial school).
 

beej

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In the context of this conversation, you all know that gender and sex do not necessarily equate, right?
Maybe, but I don't think that is worth dealing with in a national level, school curriculum, or a social policy. The people who have these problems are social outliers in too small of numbers worthy of attention. There are probably larger numbers of people who believe the earth is flat. And while I sympathize with their troubles, I don't consider it worthy to change policy that is good for the vast majority of Americans who lie within social norms.
 

Ramhusker

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Maybe, but I don't think that is worth dealing with in a national level, school curriculum, or a social policy. The people who have these problems are social outliers in too small of numbers worthy of attention. There are probably larger numbers of people who believe the earth is flat. And while I sympathize with their troubles, I don't consider it worthy to change policy that is good for the vast majority of Americans who lie within social norms.
That's exactly why I don't think there is room for Gender to be mentioned in school. The US is continually getting its ass handed to it by a lot of the world when it comes to education. We don't have time to dedicate to talk about gender. Of course, you have to get into it when describing how the earth is populated and how life continues to exist. I'm a little confused as to your stance. I feel like we are going around the horn to argue the same point????
 

bluecoconuts

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That's exactly why I don't think there is room for Gender to be mentioned in school. The US is continually getting its ass handed to it by a lot of the world when it comes to education. We don't have time to dedicate to talk about gender. Of course, you have to get into it when describing how the earth is populated and how life continues to exist. I'm a little confused as to your stance. I feel like we are going around the horn to argue the same point????

Us getting our asses handed to us in terms of education isn't for lack of time, its for our content. Dumbing down subjects for money, politicizing our history, etc. When we have politicians saying that we need to eliminate critical thinking in schools because it makes kids question authority/religion/etc or that we need to change history because it causes kids to go to one party or another, THAT is why we fall behind.

We have plenty of time, we just spend it doing bullshit.
 

Ramhusker

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Us getting our asses handed to us in terms of education isn't for lack of time, its for our content. Dumbing down subjects for money, politicizing our history, etc. When we have politicians saying that we need to eliminate critical thinking in schools because it makes kids question authority/religion/etc or that we need to change history because it causes kids to go to one party or another, THAT is why we fall behind.

We have plenty of time, we just spend it doing bullcrap.
Can't disagree with that. Standardized testing and these absurd "common core" methods are incredibly hurtful.
 

Mackeyser

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I dunno if it's so much that Common Core that's the ultimate villain as how certain states have tried or not tried to implement it as well as how some parent groups have responded.

I know here in Florida, several parent groups saw it as a chance to really force some changes to the standardized testing model that better helped charter schools and gave more leeway to local school districts to create even more individually tailored curricula for students. This, I'm sorry to say, is a bunch of hogwash.

So, I'm not so sure if Common Core is the culprit or if it's not moreso that the process was sabotaged or both.

That said, the path we were on had to change. I had 4 kids in school for the last 10 years, basically and these standardized tests had gotten so ridiculously out of hand.
 

bluecoconuts

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So, I'm not so sure if Common Core is the culprit or if it's not moreso that the process was sabotaged or both.

If I had to guess its the latter, I know that some of the stuff doesn't make sense from face value, since it is more complicated, but it requires a deeper understanding rather than simple memorization.
 

Ramhusker

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If I had to guess its the latter, I know that some of the stuff doesn't make sense from face value, since it is more complicated, but it requires a deeper understanding rather than simple memorization.
Oh man, the math is insane. A colossal waste of time stunting the student's learning curve on useless, senseless calculation. Math is a beautiful thing and the process doesn't need the clutter.