Sometimes I'm Haunted by the Dead

[Loyal]

Boy, that title is click-bait if I ever saw it! But it's true in a way.

I have memories of a world that existed 40 years ago, which many of you remember because many fans who come here are in my age group. I have been a student of history for many years because I love it, but I am formalizing that love with a degree in December. In January, I start a Masters program and I am troubled by the thesis I will work on as far as the subject of it. Let's talk about the dead...

Many of you remember that great scene in Dead Poets Society, where Robin Williams plays Professor Keating. Keating brought his students into the hallway and there are pictures of previous classes, who looked very much like them: full of optimism about the future and full of hubris that all young people seem to have, which is that they act like they will live forever. He then tells them to look closely and know that most of those young boys had died in World War I. He asked them to lean in closely....Listen, he whispered.."Carpe Diem." Seize the day...Some say that the latin more accurately means "pluck the day, for it is ripe."

I was an adult when that movie was released, but it affected me deeply, because it resonated with an idea that had been haunting me previously. I too am fascinated by city scenes from the early days of photography, where people are going about their day. It is a study of motion. Perhaps delivery boys on bicycles, businessmen headed to an appointment, cars passing by...There is normally one person that notices the camera, like a deer caught in the headlight. In this case I am thinking it was a woman in early 1900's garb, with a large hat. She looks at every person in the eyes that sees the picture. I was struck by the idea that she not only was she dead, but so was everyone else that was passing by the camera, oblivious to the moment. That whole world is dead, and it's left to people that had never experienced it to describe it...like me.

There are other thoughts about more recent times if anyone is interested in the 40 years ago, comment. That is, if anyone besides me is reading this far! ha!

 

[Loyal]

 

[bnw]

I know what you mean. I like watching the earliest films from the 1800s in all the different technologies through the first 50 years. Street scenes are the best since they are not staged.....a true look into the past. Here's one from SF the day before the earthquake in 1906 (the sound was added):

View: https://youtu.be/8Q5Nur642BU


For my wife and I it dovetails with our love of antique furniture and catching faulty continuity in period films from Hollywood. I also like well researched time travel movies. I am such a geek.:yay: Oh and whats a geek without the world's first adult films? From 1896 and 1897 in France::yess:

View: https://youtu.be/UMraExQmgnM

 

[CGI_Ram]

@LoyalRam I am fascinated by history and early photography myself. Like you, not so much the actual photography, more so the images captured.

There are images of the generation before ours, and even some beyond that... but the time horizon is relatively short and the quantity of images limited.

I'm not sure if it's perceived as "weird", but there are times I will look at an old photograph and try to imagine what was happening in that moment. Because, it's not just an image, that was life captured.

Like this one...

Today, everything is captured by a society armed with cameras. Imagine how much will be available to future generations both in images, video, and audio. 50 years from now. 500 years from now.

Mind blowing.

 

[Loyal]

@LoyalRam I am fascinated by history and early photography myself. Like you, not so much the actual photography, more so the images captured.

There are images of the generation before ours, and even some beyond that... but the time horizon is relatively short and the quantity of images limited.

I'm not sure if it's perceived as "weird", but there are times I will look at an old photograph and try to imagine what was happening in that moment. Because, it's not just an image, that was life captured.

Like this one...

Today, everything is captured by a society armed with cameras. Imagine how much will be available to future generations both in images, video, and audio. 50 years from now. 500 years from now.

Mind blowing.

I was struck in a class among those graduating with degrees in history, of which I am one. I saw intelligent people discussing the drop of the a-bombs in Japan to end WW2, and the 50 year anniversary exhibit that was protested by veteran groups at the time.

They mostly believed it was an atrocity perpetrated by the USA, which floored me. They took the curator's point of view (Smithsonian exhibit) which aligned with ivy league school history professors that the a-bombs didn't need to be dropped and that the Japanese would have surrendered without them. It was an "exciting" alternative POV by those in that academic bubble. They despised the uneducated marines that survived the island hopping campaign, the last of which was the Battle of Okinawa, the most horrific of them all. Their point of view was disregarded because THEY were those who knew better. They even believed that Truman didn't even believe that 500,000 casualties would have resulted from invading mainland Japan. Xenophobia and racism, etc...There was a book at the time, since discredited, that espoused these points.
They were wrong.

I watched countless hours of personal testimony by veterans that survived Wake Island, Guadal Canal, Pelileau, Iwo Jima, Saipan, Okinawa, and others I am sure that don't come immediately to memory. The fighting and the dogged unwillingness to surrender, caused the Marines to kill almost all of them. My Grandfather survived Iwo Jima, but lost a lung by a shot from a "jap" sniper, as he called them. He hated the Japanese all of his life and no one had more reason to do so than he. I don't share his POV from my perspective, but I understand the context of it. IN any case, Truman ordered 500,000 purple hearts created for the final assault. The Marines had to give purple hearts to guys like my Grandpa a year later, because there was such a backorder, so that order for one half million purple hearts was specifically for the mainland invasion of Japan. No one knew this in 1995. Those 500,000 purple hearts have been the source of ALL purple hearts awarded in every conflict after WW2, until about 2011. Think about that. Truman really thought that many American kids would have been casualties in the invasion. Those disputing this looked to the relatively light casualties in the invasion of Luzon (Philappines), but ignored the casualty stats of Okinawa....and actual part of Japan, not a conquered territory.

Anyway, the students took a detached point of view without regard to the veterans stories. I brought Grandpa's purple heart that he earned the hard way on Iwo, and told them of the 500,000 purple hearts. I revealed to them the casualty stats from Okinawa. I brought voice to a young generation, about the greatest generation, that they really didn't know about. Imagine if it was beyond anyone's personal memory (or those who heard the stories from those who lived it)....The context is lost. It was amazing..Me against 15 other graduating students, who mostly argued the opposing view...I figured it was an even contest! lol

 

[Prime Time]

Black Elk (far left) participated in the Battle of Little Big Horn in 1876 and at Wounded Knee in 1890. In between, he was a show Indian, also known as skate wicasa. He and Elk (left) performed for Queen Victoria at her Golden Jubilee in London, England, in 1887, while the Oglalas were on tour with Buffalo Bill Cody’s Wild West show.

– Courtesy South Dakota State Historical Society –

Cattle drives typically lasted three months, so cowboys often bathed at the end of the trail before heading into a cowtown to celebrate.

– True West Archives –

The most famous member of the James-Younger Gang, the outlaw leader Jesse James was murdered in 1882, and this cabinet card of him was made that year.

– Courtesy Robert G. McCubbin Collection –

The ultimate frontiersman, Kit Carson was a fur trader, explorer, mountain man, guide for John “Pathfinder” Fremont and an Indian agent. The image of this brave man was probably taken sometime in the 1850s.

– Courtesy Robert G. McCubbin Collection –

Probably the most famous photograph of a former Indian captive, taken after her ransom was paid in 1856, this photo of Mormon Olive Oatman reveals the blue cactus ink tattoo her Mohave captors gave to her to ensure a good afterlife.

– True West Archives –

Unofficially formed by Stephen Austin in 1823 and officially organized in 1835, the Texas Rangers has a storied history of tracking down fugitives and protecting the border. This circa 1885-88 cabinet card is an excellent photo of Company “F” of the Frontier Battalion.

– Courtesy Robert G. McCubbin Collection –

With a reward on his head, Oklahoma Territory outlaw Bill Doolin was an attractive target. When Doolin was shot dead in August 1896, he had around 20 buckshot wounds, courtesy of Heck Thomas. The deputy U.S. marshal collected a nearly $1,500 reward and divided it among the seven members of his posse.

– Courtesy Robert G. McCubbin collection –

“Murdered on the Streets of Tombstone” was the sign mourners carried during the funeral procession for Tom McLaury, Frank McLaury and Billy Clanton (above, from left), who were killed during the Gunfight Behind the O.K. Corral in 1881. Their bodies were displayed in the window of a local hardware store.

– True West Archives –

 

[Prime Time]

This photograph taken in 1847 via the Daguerreotype process is thought to be the first ever photograph taken for the news; it depicts a man being arrested in France.

John Quincy Adams, the sixth President of the United States, was the first president to have his photograph taken. The daguerreotype was shot in 1843, a good number of years after Adams left office in 1829.

The photo above was originally mislabeled as President Grant’s inauguration ceremony. A curator discovered the photographs while reviewing a log book noticed the caption “Lincoln” in the margins. After careful comparison between the only known photos of the inauguration (just two existed) it was concluded that this photo is actually a crowd scene at Lincoln’s second inauguration.

There are two recently discovered photographs of Lincoln but they have not been officially verified. This Photo was discovered this year in a personal album of President Ulysses S. Grant and apparently shows Lincoln in front of the White House.

 

[IowaRam]

Bonnie and Clyde

Dexter Iowa , photo was taken shortly before one of Bonnie and Clyde's final shoot outs at Dexfield Park in Dexter Iowa , Bonnie and Clyde would escape one more time , but this shoot out left Clyde's brother Buck mortally wounded and would die a couple days later in a hospital in Perry Iowa , Buck's wife Blanche was also captured

Blanche Barrow , wife of Clydes brother Buck after being captured in Dexter Iowa

Blanche Barrow being held by two men on the left while her husband Buck Barrow lay mortally wounded on the ground there on the right ,

Bonnie , Clyde and another young man named William Daniel Jones, would escape into the woods , but not after being shot several times themselves
,

 

[Loyal]

So great!

 

[bnw]

@LoyalRam I am fascinated by history and early photography myself. Like you, not so much the actual photography, more so the images captured.

There are images of the generation before ours, and even some beyond that... but the time horizon is relatively short and the quantity of images limited.

I'm not sure if it's perceived as "weird", but there are times I will look at an old photograph and try to imagine what was happening in that moment. Because, it's not just an image, that was life captured.

Like this one...

Today, everything is captured by a society armed with cameras. Imagine how much will be available to future generations both in images, video, and audio. 50 years from now. 500 years from now.

Mind blowing.

Looks like Frank Sinatra, Peter Lawford, Shirley MacLain and Angie Dickinson from Ocean's 11.

 

[bnw]

I was struck in a class among those graduating with degrees in history, of which I am one. I saw intelligent people discussing the drop of the a-bombs in Japan to end WW2, and the 50 year anniversary exhibit that was protested by veteran groups at the time.

They mostly believed it was an atrocity perpetrated by the USA, which floored me. They took the curator's point of view (Smithsonian exhibit) which aligned with ivy league school history professors that the a-bombs didn't need to be dropped and that the Japanese would have surrendered without them. It was an "exciting" alternative POV by those in that academic bubble. They despised the uneducated marines that survived the island hopping campaign, the last of which was the Battle of Okinawa, the most horrific of them all. Their point of view was disregarded because THEY were those who knew better. They even believed that Truman didn't even believe that 500,000 casualties would have resulted from invading mainland Japan. Xenophobia and racism, etc...There was a book at the time, since discredited, that espoused these points.
They were wrong.

I watched countless hours of personal testimony by veterans that survived Wake Island, Guadal Canal, Pelileau, Iwo Jima, Saipan, Okinawa, and others I am sure that don't come immediately to memory. The fighting and the dogged unwillingness to surrender, caused the Marines to kill almost all of them. My Grandfather survived Iwo Jima, but lost a lung by a shot from a "jap" sniper, as he called them. He hated the Japanese all of his life and no one had more reason to do so than he. I don't share his POV from my perspective, but I understand the context of it. IN any case, Truman ordered 500,000 purple hearts created for the final assault. The Marines had to give purple hearts to guys like my Grandpa a year later, because there was such a backorder, so that order for one half million purple hearts was specifically for the mainland invasion of Japan. No one knew this in 1995. Those 500,000 purple hearts have been the source of ALL purple hearts awarded in every conflict after WW2, until about 2011. Think about that. Truman really thought that many American kids would have been casualties in the invasion. Those disputing this looked to the relatively light casualties in the invasion of Luzon (Philappines), but ignored the casualty stats of Okinawa....and actual part of Japan, not a conquered territory.

Anyway, the students took a detached point of view without regard to the veterans stories. I brought Grandpa's purple heart that he earned the hard way on Iwo, and told them of the 500,000 purple hearts. I revealed to them the casualty stats from Okinawa. I brought voice to a young generation, about the greatest generation, that they really didn't know about. Imagine if it was beyond anyone's personal memory (or those who heard the stories from those who lived it)....The context is lost. It was amazing..Me against 15 other graduating students, who mostly argued the opposing view...I figured it was an even contest! lol

yeah I have little respect for the revisionists that try to gin up something different to try to become relevant in their field. In the case of Truman and the dropping of the bombs his rationale was well known and on the record. His insistence that the bombs be used on military targets instead of civilian limited the available targets since the firebombing campaign had leveled all cities of size except Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This link has Truman quotes on the subject:
https://www.stripes.com/news/specia...ies-reveal-no-hesitation-some-regret-1.360308

 

[bnw]

 

[Loyal]

Ok, I have a few Modelo Negros in me, so I will talk about forty years ago. I dearly love the Friar's Roasts and Dean Martin Celebrity Roasts. Both honored someone that was revered in society, but in the spirit of loving them, they got roasted! In the 60's and the 70's, they were the who's-who's of current and past A-listers. I remember the visuals and smells of the 1970's. I was born in 1964, and I remember LA during those times. I had the memories of child, but watching You-Tube celebrity roasts filled out and gave depth to those memories. Every once in a while, they shot the camera to pan the audience and it looked like what I remembered, from young to old. Horn rimmed glasses and bouffant hairdo's...long hair and wide knot ties. I watched mostly older-elderly stars get up to roast the honoree. The one that I loved most was Don Rickles. He was irreverent, racy, and incredibly funny. His humor is not acceptable today, which is such a shame. He would make jokes of his black friends that he loved deeply (his friends Nipsy Russell, Sammy Davis Jr., and Redd Fox). He would make fun using racist stereotypes which I hesitate even to mention, but it came from a place of love, and those getting flayed by him, knew it. They loved him and he them...It was a snap shot of a different time. He always ended his "acts" by explaining that he hoped that people understood his humor because he came on strong. He hoped for his audience that they be surrounded by those who cared, as he enjoyed himself.

This is Part One.

 

[IowaRam]

Ok, I have a few Modelo Negros in me, so I will talk about forty years ago. I dearly love the Friar's Roasts and Dean Martin Celebrity Roasts. Both honored someone that was revered in society, but in the spirit of loving them, they got roasted! In the 60's and the 70's, they were the who's-who's of current and past A-listers. I remember the visuals and smells of the 1970's. I was born in 1964, and I remember LA during those times. I had the memories of child, but watching You-Tube celebrity roasts filled out and gave depth to those memories. Every once in a while, they shot the camera to pan the audience and it looked like what I remembered, from young to old. Horn rimmed glasses and bouffant hairdo's...long hair and wide knot ties. I watched mostly older-elderly stars get up to roast the honoree. The one that I loved most was Don Rickles. He was irreverent, racy, and incredibly funny. His humor is not acceptable today, which is such a shame. He would make jokes of his black friends that he loved deeply (his friends Nipsy Russell, Sammy Davis Jr., and Redd Fox). He would make fun using racist stereotypes which I hesitate even to mention, but it came from a place of love, and those getting flayed by him, knew it. They loved him and he them...It was a snap shot of a different time. He always ended his "acts" by explaining that he hoped that people understood his humor because he came on strong. He hoped for his audience that they be surrounded by those who cared, as he enjoyed himself.

This is Part One.

 

[Loyal]

HA! I was going to talk about Foster Brooks NEXT! lol.

 

[bnw]

Ok, I have a few Modelo Negros in me, so I will talk about forty years ago. I dearly love the Friar's Roasts and Dean Martin Celebrity Roasts. Both honored someone that was revered in society, but in the spirit of loving them, they got roasted! In the 60's and the 70's, they were the who's-who's of current and past A-listers. I remember the visuals and smells of the 1970's. I was born in 1964, and I remember LA during those times. I had the memories of child, but watching You-Tube celebrity roasts filled out and gave depth to those memories. Every once in a while, they shot the camera to pan the audience and it looked like what I remembered, from young to old. Horn rimmed glasses and bouffant hairdo's...long hair and wide knot ties. I watched mostly older-elderly stars get up to roast the honoree. The one that I loved most was Don Rickles. He was irreverent, racy, and incredibly funny. His humor is not acceptable today, which is such a shame. He would make jokes of his black friends that he loved deeply (his friends Nipsy Russell, Sammy Davis Jr., and Redd Fox). He would make fun using racist stereotypes which I hesitate even to mention, but it came from a place of love, and those getting flayed by him, knew it. They loved him and he them...It was a snap shot of a different time. He always ended his "acts" by explaining that he hoped that people understood his humor because he came on strong. He hoped for his audience that they be surrounded by those who cared, as he enjoyed himself.

This is Part One.

I'm a few years older than you and I remember the '70s well. Shows on TV in the '60s were mostly fun. Someone threw a switch around '72 and all the shows became intense whiney societal crap......think "All In the Family" and "Kojack" among the better ones. My great anticipation of reaching puberty from growing up drooling over the mini skirts of the late '60s was met with a well placed kick in the balls by the emergence of the fucking pantsuit! (For those unaware.....consider yourself lucky.....its what Hildabeast always wears.....in her case it prevents blindness......for hot chicks its a fucking CRIME!

Then theres the "War of the Sexes" BS that had some really ugly chicks emboldened to get in your face about something you had nothing to do with. Why don't they blame their old lady for not eating enough red meat? ERA this, ERA that.....fuck it it lost....get the fuck over it. Now this crap was somewhat offset by the bra burning and nipple through the blouse trend and a tube top on the right rack is always appreciated.

Even with the Vietnam War ramping up in the late '60s into the very early '70s there was optimism about the future. The cars were big and getting bigger. Engines in average cars were so over powered that even a granny wagon was fun to get your hands on. Then came OPEC and gas went from 29 cents a gallon to 55 cents. Huge lines at gas stations that wrapped around the block with depending upon the day only even or odd numbered license plates getting the 5 gallon maximum for cars that got 15 miles to the gallon....max. Of course this was met with the 55 mph speed limit and Detroit's response being the Vega and Pinto.

Then there's the EPA lowering the octane in gas to 87 and forcing unleaded gasoline on everyone with its catalytic converter and performance robbing ever increasing pollution controls and making cars much more unreliable. The genius move of forcing ethanol blends.....gasohol they called it then....in response to OPEC and the CORN PRODUCERS LOBBY......forced millions of car owners to either replace or rebuild their carburetors since the rubber components were destroyed by ethanol. This went on for years before a new type of rubber compound was developed.

Then there was the busing controversy in which people who busted their ass working to be able to afford a home in a good school district for their kids to attend had a judge send their kid to a worse school for shits and giggles.

Watergate. Enough said.

Detente. Cold War at its height.

The end of Apollo missions. Skylab launched.

The repercussions of OPEC were felt throughout the decade. With two oil embargos by OPEC came crippling inflation. Since everything moves by oil everything increased in price. Commodities exploded in price. Coffee, sugar, beef.....everything. Home mortgage rates that were in the low digits were now well into double digits approaching 20% by the end of the decade.

Then there were the Price Controls of the early '70s which still effect pricing to this day.

The US dollar dropped any pretense of backing in 1971 by becoming a free floating currency which contributed greatly to inflation that we still experience to this day......and was a contributing factor in the OPEC oil embargo to the US, the major factor being US support for Israel in the Arab-Israeli War.

Plane hijackings everywhere especially to Cuba. Terrorism with the Weather Underground, Patty Hearst/SLA, Wounded Knee etc.

Other than the nasty fashion, disco crap the defining theme of the '70s in my opinion was the undeniable cultural malaise......the lack of optimism for the future because life for the average family became much harder economically speaking with diminished expectations the norm.....especially in flyover country. Distrust of government was rampant as well which set the stage for the '80s.

 

[IowaRam]

Just being a kid in the 70's , I still remember all that very well

About the TV shows changing , I remember reading an article a while back about that ,how TV shows changed basically over night , shows went from Rural to Urban , gone were F-Troop and Green Acres , replaced by All in the Family , Welcome Back Kotter , Barney Miller , etc., even shows that were still doing well in the ratings were cancelled

The Apollo Missions , Apollo 17 , my parents got their first color TV like the day of the of the launch , it Apollo's first night launch , we had a house full of guests , and if I remember right , the launch was delayed a while , and us kids were all wound up , I was like 7 years old at the time

Also remember the Gas war , I remember driving around town with my grandfather , looking for that one gas station that was $0.01 cheaper then the other stations , and being in the car listening to my dad bitch about the new 55 MPH speed limit

The plane hijackings , I also remember those , seemed like there was a new one every week , I still have those images of the hijackers sticking their heads out the windows of the jet plane

How about the Bicentennial Minute , I remember watching those about every night , and the Bicentennial souvenirs , you couldn't walking into any kind of store without seeing dozens of , keychains , glasses , plates , , you name it , they had it

ROOTS , the TV event of the decade

Disco never really bothered me , and I will say one thing , all these years later , I still prefer Disco over most of what's out there today , a lot of those disco bands had amazing horn sections

 

[IowaRam]

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

@Primetime that picture of Bill Doolin is fascinating. If there is an era that I love to ponder it is the frontier/cowboy era. We watch movie stars play the part of cowboys and Indians or big burly frontiersmen. The truth of the times is a parent when you see how thin Doolin was. Nutrition back then was poor. I am always amazed when considering that fact and wondering how people survived. My family and I tent camp. I have backpacked and am well versed in wild edibles, like mushrooms and plants. It would be tough to sustain yourself on that sort of diet. And if any of you have hunted in a real forest away from agriculture, you know that deer or elk populations would be thin. Streams can only yield a limited amount of fish. Small game is far spread in the forest too. How did these people survive? These groups of bandits living on the lamb and hiding in the brush and canyons would have to be so hungry they would be tempted to eat people. I couldn't eat enough in my twenties and I had plenty.

We are fed images of burly trappers with big guts, but the pic of Kit Carson is more likely what people looked like. I bet a high metabolism guy like myself would not have been able to endure. It took too much food to feed my engine. The process of natural selection really bore out back then. It would have been a constant struggle, living on the frontier. Trying to build a cabin and clear land for farming would take time. What did they live on? If I don't eat a balanced diet my energy level is not high enough to work on busting sod or clearing forest with hand tools.

Back to Doolin. He isn't very imposing in appearance. But, I guess most weren't back then. I wonder just how lawless it was if a guy like him could be a wanted criminal. Those skinny arms of his make me think he would have trouble fighting his way out of a wet paper bag. If most people had guns and were willing to use them a guy like that wouldn't be able to get away with much.

One thing I have read was about how much the Indians helped the first settlers with what to eat. The pilgrims were . starving to death. They had a limit of supplies that eventually ran out. They were not familiar with the local flora. Indians even brought them meat. Some who had babies struggled with what to feed their toddlers. Talk about desperate and scary times. One tree that is common in the east, is a slippery elm. It has a thick, moist inner bark. The Indians taught the settlers to strip the outer bark, and harvest the inner bark. Dry it and grind it to a powder, then reconstitute it into a paste to use as baby food. I tried it. The inner bark made a decent tea, but that baby food tasted awful. I don't think there was much nutrition to be gained from it either. I wonder how the Indians figured it out, and other things to eat or use as medicine. Someone had to be first, or experimented with things. It seems likely that someone of higher intelligence taught them.