Something I noticed regarding Gurley

[Memphis Ram]

Yes, many did.

They got them up to speed enough to play them.

So when Greg Robinson didn't start immediately, it was because of coaching? Or was it because he wasn't ready?

Sure, any rookie can be gotten up to speed to play. But, there's a difference between just playing and playing well enough to succeed and not hurt the team. And I'm sorry, but I don't recall one player previously listed who started immediately and had success looking as lost as Goff did in the preseason.

 

[-X-]

[av]http://www.freeabcsongs.com/mp3/mulberrybush-nr.mp3[/av]

 

[jrry32]

So when Greg Robinson didn't start immediately, it was because of coaching? Or was it because he wasn't ready?

Sure, any rookie can be gotten up to speed to play. But, there's a difference between just playing and playing well enough to succeed and not hurt the team.

I'd say both.

Hell, do you remember Greg's rookie year? We had Davin Joseph starting over him. And Joseph was a turnstile.

And I'm sorry, but I don't recall one player previously listed who started immediately and had success looking as lost as Goff did in the preseason.

Cam Newton
Joe Flacco
Andy Dalton

Plus, you have Jameis Winston who wasn't previously listed because FSU runs a pro style system. He was arguably worse than Goff was in his rookie preseason.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I'd say both.

Hell, do you remember Greg's rookie year? We had Davin Joseph starting over him. And Joseph was a turnstile.

Cam Newton
Joe Flacco
Andy Dalton

Plus, you have Jameis Winston who wasn't previously listed because FSU runs a pro style system. He was arguably worse than Goff was in his rookie preseason.

But, Joseph being a turnstile didn't mean that Robinson knew who to block on each play.

And sorry, but I don't recall any of the QBs you mentioned looking as lost as Goff looked. But, then again, I may have more of an objective view than you have regarding Goff.

 

[jrry32]

And sorry, but I don't recall any of the QBs you mentioned looking as lost as Goff looked. But, then again, I may have more of an objective view than you have regarding Goff.

Andy Dalton
36/60
60.0%
328 passing yards
5.5 YPA
1 TD
3 Ints
59.6 QB Rating

Cam Newton
24/57
42.1%
300 passing yards
5.3 YPA
1 TD
0 Ints
64.9 QB Rating

Joe Flacco
35/67
52.2%
284 passing yards
4.2 YPA
1 TD
0 Ints
68.8 QB Rating

Jameis Winston
23/47
48.9%
311 passing yards
6.6 YPA
0 TDs
2 Ints
52.7 QB Rating

Jared Goff
22/49
44.9%
232 passing yards
4.7 YPA
2 TDs
2 Ints
55.8 QB Rating

I don't think objectivity is the issue. Maybe your memory is betraying you?

But, Joseph being a turnstile didn't mean that Robinson knew who to block on each play.

Maybe Robinson would have known who to block on each play if the Rams coaches did a better job of preparing him to play OG. Then again, they ended up being right about preparing him the way they did when Jake Long got hurt later in the year.

Regardless, Robinson was likely a better OG than Joseph even with him not having a great grasp of the scheme. Which only makes it more problematic that the Rams didn't do a better job of getting him up to speed.

The same thing is happening now. Goff doesn't need to have a Manning-like understanding of our scheme. He just needs to grasp it well enough to outplay Case Keenum, so he can learn on the fly.

 

[RamzFanz]

To make it even more strange, the favorite scapegoat is Brian Quick, but he seems to being doing well in that area.

Shhhhhhh, don't jinx the kid, there may be a glimmer of hope yet!

 

[Memphis Ram]

Andy Dalton
36/60
60.0%
328 passing yards
5.5 YPA
1 TD
3 Ints
59.6 QB Rating

Cam Newton
24/57
42.1%
300 passing yards
5.3 YPA
1 TD
0 Ints
64.9 QB Rating

Joe Flacco
35/67
52.2%
284 passing yards
4.2 YPA
1 TD
0 Ints
68.8 QB Rating

Jameis Winston
23/47
48.9%
311 passing yards
6.6 YPA
0 TDs
2 Ints
52.7 QB Rating

Jared Goff
22/49
44.9%
232 passing yards
4.7 YPA
2 TDs
2 Ints
55.8 QB Rating

I don't think objectivity is the issue. Maybe your memory is betraying you?



Maybe Robinson would have known who to block on each play if the Rams coaches did a better job of preparing him to play OG. Then again, they ended up being right about preparing him the way they did when Jake Long got hurt later in the year.

Regardless, Robinson was likely a better OG than Joseph even with him not having a great grasp of the scheme. Which only makes it more problematic that the Rams didn't do a better job of getting him up to speed.

The same thing is happening now. Goff doesn't need to have a Manning-like understanding of our scheme. He just needs to grasp it well enough to outplay Case Keenum, so he can learn on the fly.

Sorry, but throwing up stats that can be affected by a plethora of circumstances (especially in preseason) means about as much as the preseason superstar stat lines that do not translate to regular season action. You've got to watch the games. Which, I'm now ashamed to say, that I used to do religiously. Yes. I believe objectivity is the issue. You've been on the Goff bandwagon almost about as hard as you were on the Teddy Bridgewater bandwagon a few years ago and anything that suggests that he has any part or role in his current situation seems impossible.

Gazooks man. Do you really believe that if Goff would have lit things up during OTAs, meetings, training camp, and preseason, he wouldn't be starting? C'mon. Fisher wants and needs to win games. You really believe that he would sit the guy who he believed gave him the best chance to win because of some rookie philosophy?

The Rams got it right on Robinson, who himself acknowledged, the simplicity of his responsibilities in college. While I would have love to see them do it at the time, I'm glad that they didn't simplify the offense to appease him.

 

[bubbaramfan]

The Idea of simplifying the offense to accomodate the rookie QB is counter productive and totally unfair to the rest of the team.

 

[OregonRamsFan]

For those saying Fisher and staff won't trim the playbook to help Goff out. . . . I am really not sure about that conclusion.

We are already trimming the playbook just for Keenum. He may be able to know it and call it but it's trimmed due to his ability with his arm.

We're not trimming the playbook. The playbook only has like five plays, according to what I see every game. Throw to the left LOS, throw to the right LOS. Throw to the center LOS. Handoff to Gurley. Punt. Am I missing something here?

 

[Mikey Ram]

We're not trimming the playbook. The playbook only has like five plays, according to what I see every game. Throw to the left LOS, throw to the right LOS. Throw to the center LOS. Handoff to Gurley. Punt. Am I missing something here?

I think that you might have missed the 2 shots downfield that both ended in the end zone...A chance of adding to what you see...

 

[jrry32]

Sorry, but throwing up stats that can be affected by a plethora of circumstances (especially in preseason) means about as much as the preseason superstar stat lines that do not translate to regular season action. You've got to watch the games. Which, I'm now ashamed to say, that I used to do religiously. Yes. I believe objectivity is the issue. You've been on the Goff bandwagon almost about as hard as you were on the Teddy Bridgewater bandwagon a few years ago and anything that suggests that he has any part or role in his current situation seems impossible.

Gazooks man. Do you really believe that if Goff would have lit things up during OTAs, meetings, training camp, and preseason, he wouldn't be starting? C'mon. Fisher wants and needs to win games. You really believe that he would sit the guy who he believed gave him the best chance to win because of some rookie philosophy?

The Rams got it right on Robinson, who himself acknowledged, the simplicity of his responsibilities in college. While I would have love to see them do it at the time, I'm glad that they didn't simplify the offense to appease him.

Objectivity is the issue? Not me knowing what I'm talking about and you not wanting to give any ground?

So, for example, Joe Flacco didn't struggle to such a great extent in Baltimore that John Harbaugh placed him as the 3rd string QB behind Troy Smith and Kyle Boller? John Harbaugh also didn't remark that he had counted Flacco out of the QB competition for the starting job? Flacco didn't end up becoming the starter after a bad preseason because Troy Smith suffered a serious infection and Kyle Boller suffered a serious shoulder injury forcing the 3rd string QB, Flacco, into the starting role?

None of that happened? And Flacco didn't prove that his bad preseason was meaningless by getting tossed into the fire, elevating his game, and helping his team reach the playoffs?

If you're going to accuse me of being too biased to know what I'm talking about, you better be damn sure I'm wrong. Because, like you, I watch a lot of football. I saw those guys play. They were all lost. Especially Jameis Winston.

Do I believe if Goff had lit things up, he would have been starting? No. I doubt he would have been starting Week 1.

Yes, I absolutely think Fisher would do things that weren't good for the team because of his own philosophy. Why? Because we, as people, tend not to have the self-awareness to recognize our own faults.

 

[jrry32]

The Idea of simplifying the offense to accomodate the rookie QB is counter productive and totally unfair to the rest of the team.

It's something the majority of the NFL does. Why? Because they'd rather simplify the offense to have better QB play. Why? Because that benefits the team more.

 

[yrba1]

It's something the majority of the NFL does. Why? Because they'd rather simplify the offense to have better QB play. Why? Because that benefits the team more.

Exactly, Wentz is able to flourish on the spot Week 1 in his debut because Pederson simplifies the verbiage and playbook of his offense. It's a viable short-term solution but once defenses have more gametape, the simplified offense will backfire. I would've preferred this approach to Goff, implementing elements of the Bear Raid offense while meshing concepts with whatever the fuck Fisher/Boras is trying to run on offense. But I have zero faith in Fisher able to implement a scheme like that; certainly appreciate the creativity he and Williams provide on defense though.

 

[Bluesy]

A rookie QB isn't going to scare anyone. Arm talent doesn't fix read progression issues, nor does it fix inexperience under center or making blitz calls or play adjustments.

This. Exactly.

Don't get me wrong I'm excited for Goff but I think some people on here are over exaggerating how great he will be right off the bat. I just don't see him coming out and completely changing our offense immediately.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Objectivity is the issue? Not me knowing what I'm talking about and you not wanting to give any ground?

So, for example, Joe Flacco didn't struggle to such a great extent in Baltimore that John Harbaugh placed him as the 3rd string QB behind Troy Smith and Kyle Boller? John Harbaugh also didn't remark that he had counted Flacco out of the QB competition for the starting job? Flacco didn't end up becoming the starter after a bad preseason because Troy Smith suffered a serious infection and Kyle Boller suffered a serious shoulder injury forcing the 3rd string QB, Flacco, into the starting role?

None of that happened? And Flacco didn't prove that his bad preseason was meaningless by getting tossed into the fire, elevating his game, and helping his team reach the playoffs?

If you're going to accuse me of being too biased to know what I'm talking about, you better be damn sure I'm wrong. Because, like you, I watch a lot of football. I saw those guys play. They were all lost. Especially Jameis Winston.

Do I believe if Goff had lit things up, he would have been starting? No. I doubt he would have been starting Week 1.

Yes, I absolutely think Fisher would do things that weren't good for the team because of his own philosophy. Why? Because we, as people, tend not to have the self-awareness to recognize our own faults.

So simply because of his draft position, the top two spots were automatically Flacco's to lose now? Being placed as the 3rd string QB because of his struggles couldn't also have anything to do with him being a freaking rookie QB with 2 better prepared veterans ahead of him in comparison? Ala Goff? C'mon. Besides, the point being made wasn't whether or not other QBs struggled. It was if they looked as lost as Goff looked. And I say they did not.

OK let's say Fisher is one of those that has the poor self-awareness to recognize his own faults. If Goff excelled this offseason, do you also believe that this players coach would ignore the opinions of his entire coaching staff & players (who I imagine would be pushing for Goff), too?

 

[Force16X]

What about Sam Bradford and Joe Flacco?

yes, both of those QB's play on teams with good defenses!

 

[jrry32]

So simply because of his draft position, the top two spots were automatically Flacco's to lose now? Being placed as the 3rd string QB because of his struggles couldn't also have anything to do with him being a freaking rookie QB with 2 better prepared veterans ahead of him in comparison? Ala Goff? C'mon. Besides, the point being made wasn't whether or not other QBs struggled. It was if they looked as lost as Goff looked. And I say they did not.

I say they did. From both watching them and seeing the numbers they put up. And Flacco provides a perfect example of that.(despite your insistence that he didn't)

He was placed as a 3rd string QB because he struggled. The guys ahead of him were mega-bust Kyle Boller and career backup Troy Smith. He pretty much was placed in the same situation as Goff. Difference is that injuries got him on the field and he shined. And what we've found out since then is that rookie QBs tend outshine veteran career backups when given the opportunity. Which is why teams have changed their approach over the past decade when it comes to rookie QBs.

OK let's say Fisher is one of those that has the poor self-awareness to recognize his own faults. If Goff excelled this offseason, do you also believe that this players coach would ignore the opinions of his entire coaching staff & players (who I imagine would be pushing for Goff), too?

Yes.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I say they did. From both watching them and seeing the numbers they put up. And Flacco provides a perfect example of that.(despite your insistence that he didn't)

He was placed as a 3rd string QB because he struggled. The guys ahead of him were mega-bust Kyle Boller and career backup Troy Smith. He pretty much was placed in the same situation as Goff. Difference is that injuries got him on the field and he shined. And what we've found out since then is that rookie QBs tend outshine veteran career backups when given the opportunity. Which is why teams have changed their approach over the past decade when it comes to rookie QBs.



Yes.

My insistence that he didn't is based upon what I saw and read. Harbaugh went with experience over upside as I would think any coach trying to win games would. And again, preseason numbers put up can be misleading for various reasons which I recall is often remembered when fans discuss Goff's numbers. Rookie QBs tend to outshine veteran career backups when given the opportunity? Those who are ready. Don't let a few success stories blind you to the longer list of busts that we seen over the years that disprove you theory.

And OK. Fisher must have no interest in winning football games. His coaching staff is just there because he has to have one. He gets up day and night to prove that his philosophy on rookies is correct. Gotcha.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I'm not worried about getting Gurley going. Yes... we need to pass better, but this is largely the same offensive group as last year when he was lights out. It's only a matter of time for Gurley.

As far as Goff being #2 over Mannion. If the plan is to insert Goff at some point; he needs the #2 reps.

 

[Bruce2980]

I'm not worried about getting Gurley going. Yes... we need to pass better, but this is largely the same offensive group as last year when he was lights out. It's only a matter of time for Gurley.

As far as Goff being #2 over Mannion. If the plan is to insert Goff at some point; he needs the #2 reps.

Goff is supposedly getting some #1 reps according to the announcers of the Bucs game, or at least that's where I think that it was mentioned. But I did hear that he is getting those reps, for whatever that is worth.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Goff is supposedly getting some #1 reps according to the announcers of the Bucs game, or at least that's where I think that it was mentioned. But I did hear that he is getting those reps, for whatever that is worth.

I heard that too. It's actually what I meant by #2 reps... he's being prepared to play with those reps.

 

[Bruce2980]

I heard that too. It's actually what I meant by #2 reps... he's being prepared to play with those reps.

Thanks for confirming, sometimes I think I hear just what I want.