Something I noticed regarding Gurley

[RamWoodie]

Let's not forget the fact that the Rams are 2-1...and there's NO REASON to rush Goff into starting just because the Rams gave up a lot to draft him at #1.

No need to upset the applecart while the apples are good. I respect Fisher to a degree because he's doing the right thing as I see it.

 

[rdlkgliders]

Sorry, I didn't read every post but will say this. I believe Todd will get back to normal production soon. YES! a more open offense which Goff will EVENTUALLY bring is going to help. The more immediate impact that Gurley will have will be the timing of RB and Oline. It just seems that they are not in sync. I think Todd should have seen more contact in Camp and pre season. He is running hard but blocking and timing seem off.

 

[Debacled]

You can argue that. But you won't get far arguing that with me. Can't point to Goff's mechanics as problematic. Can't point to Goff's pocket presence/movement as problematic. Can't point to Goff's mental processing ability and field vision as problematic. Can't point to Goff's on the field responsibilities as problematic.

What can you point to? Scheme. Problem with that argument is that Cam Newton, Marcus Mariota, Robert Griffin III, and Dak Prescott all came out of spread offenses. All of them started Week 1 of their rookie years.

If Goff wasn't "ready," that points to a coaching issue.



I'd love to see your faith tested. Because I am very confident that your lack of faith would be proven wrong.



Why? Alex Smith had the worst rookie season of any 1st round QB from 2000 to present. Yet, that's the level of play you expect from Goff? What indicates that to you? Let's just say that the odds are stacked heavily against that happening. Not to mention the fact that it's gotten significantly easier to pass and significantly easier to be a rookie QB in the NFL since Alex Smith's rookie year.

So I feel very comfortable saying that's incorrect.

As for turnovers, Case Keenum has 2 TDs to 3 Ints in 3 games. One of those Ints was a pick six. There's no guarantee turnovers increase with Goff. Even if they do, I'll take the increase in turnovers with the increase in points.

As for the Rams OL:


Against the Seahawks, the OL allowed Keenum to be pressured on only 6 of 34 drop-backs. The OL is playing damn well in pass protection. It's yet another reason why the Rams should insert Goff.



Keenum has 3 INTs in 3 games. He's not doing a good job of limiting turnovers. His INT against Tampa Bay was a pick six. The whole "Keenum won't turn it over" argument simply isn't availing. Keenum has turned it over. And he's combined turnovers with a failure to put up points.

In fact, if there's anything this offense hasn't done over the first 3 games, it's control the ball. Things were better against Tampa. But Keenum killed Tampa last year and played poorly in our other games.

Simply put, there's no good reason to continue to trot Keenum out there. I fully expect Fisher to do it until his hand is forced, but it's not a good idea.

Goff is not nearly the athlete that any of those guys you mentioned are. In fact comparing him to Alex Smith may be generous as his athletic profile is closer to those guys than Goff. He is a pure pocket passer and while he may have some mobility he is not anywhere near the level of ANY of those guys you mentioned.

While were on the topic of them, lets dissect them shall we? Mariota got the tar beat out of him, even with his mobility. RG3...why even bring him up? This is a guy that is nothing without his legs. I already addressed Dak and his stupid amount of talent around him (the dude is also an incredible athlete) and the same could be said for Cam, who I still think isn't a stellar QB once his legs are accounted for.

The bottom line is that he is a 21 year old rookie who was never asked to call a play from the huddle or take a snap from center while in college who functioned in an offense that was primarily a one read quick pass based offense. We are talking about a guy who tossed it 44 times in the preseason and nearly lost his head on a couple of plays.

He will take longer to make reads. He will get sacked more than Keenum because of that (we saw him get hammered on a number of occasions in the preseason). He will make more bad reads due to a lack of said experience. Bad reads and more sacks means more turnovers.

I'm not saying the guy will never be able to make it, but he simply is not ready right now. If you want another easy comparison Aaron Rodgers would be a much better fit than any of the guys you listen and even he is a better runner than Goff. He sat for a solid 3 years before starting (mind you behind a legend), but like Goff he wasn't ready to be the guy day 1 season 1. We can fanboy as hard as we want for the guy, he simply ins't a better option than Keenum at QB right now.

 

[OnceARam]

You could easily argue Goff is one of the least ready 1st round QBs to be drafted within the last 5 years as well.

I don't believe Goff would provide better QB play right now. I don't have any faith in his ability to progress through reads, make adjustments at the line, or efficiently handle snaps from center even yet.

Turnovers are key here. You can guarantee turnovers would increase with Goff. I've mentioned it before, but starting Goff would look similar to Alex Smith's rookie year, and it wasn't pretty. The Rams aren't fielding a stupid good line like the Cowboys (nor do they have the outside threats they do) and Wentz is ahead of Goff in handling pro style concepts (such as working under center).

This is a ball control offense based on limiting turnovers. Keenum just fits that better now than Goff does.

Did you not see Keenum's pick six? The argument that Keenum turns the ball over less that Goff (might?) is no longer valid.

 

[gabriel18]

You could easily argue Goff is one of the least ready 1st round QBs to be drafted within the last 5 years as well.

I don't believe Goff would provide better QB play right now. I don't have any faith in his ability to progress through reads, make adjustments at the line, or efficiently handle snaps from center even yet.

Turnovers are key here. You can guarantee turnovers would increase with Goff. I've mentioned it before, but starting Goff would look similar to Alex Smith's rookie year, and it wasn't pretty. The Rams aren't fielding a stupid good line like the Cowboys (nor do they have the outside threats they do) and Wentz is ahead of Goff in handling pro style concepts (such as working under center).

This is a ball control offense based on limiting turnovers. Keenum just fits that better now than Goff does.

I agree that he is the probably the least ready . The real question is why would they do what they did to get him ? My as well say what a lot of us are thinking that they picked the wrong guy . I hope not but Wentz looks like the real deal to me . Again it's just my opinion.

 

[jrry32]

Goff is not nearly the athlete that any of those guys you mentioned are. In fact comparing him to Alex Smith may be generous as his athletic profile is closer to those guys than Goff. He is a pure pocket passer and while he may have some mobility he is not anywhere near the level of ANY of those guys you mentioned.

How about Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford? How about Ben Roethlisberger? How about Andy Dalton?

The bottom line is that he is a 21 year old rookie who was never asked to call a play from the huddle or take a snap from center while in college who functioned in an offense that was primarily a one read quick pass based offense. We are talking about a guy who tossed it 44 times in the preseason and nearly lost his head on a couple of plays.

That's completely incorrect.

He will take longer to make reads. He will get sacked more than Keenum because of that (we saw him get hammered on a number of occasions in the preseason). He will make more bad reads due to a lack of said experience. Bad reads and more sacks means more turnovers.

Keenum has been pressured on only 9 of 62 drop-backs over the past two weeks. The OL is pass blocking well. That's yet another reason why it makes sense to play Goff. And Keenum has already taken multiple sacks this year because he held the ball too long.

Bad reads and more sacks mean more turnovers? Why is it then that Case Keenum has more interceptions than every rookie starting QB combined this year?

I'm not saying the guy will never be able to make it, but he simply is not ready right now. If you want another easy comparison Aaron Rodgers would be a much better fit than any of the guys you listen and even he is a better runner than Goff. He sat for a solid 3 years before starting (mind you behind a legend), but like Goff he wasn't ready to be the guy day 1 season 1. We can fanboy as hard as we want for the guy, he simply ins't a better option than Keenum at QB right now.

I don't agree.

Nor do I think Rodgers and Alex Smith are accurate comparisons. Though, I'd love for him to be a Rodgers type player. Rodgers sat behind Brett Favre. We don't know when Rodgers would have been ready to start.

 

[jrry32]

Have those other coaching staffs really gotten all their QBs up to speed or have they simply inserted them into the lineup to sink or swim due to their draft position and/or lack of options? And, did those other QBs look as lost as Goff seemed to appear in preseason games? And do we know how he was in OTAs, practices, and meetings?

Is it not possible whatsoever that Goff could be on sort of a a Brian Quick type learning curve to the NFL game? Is a coaching staff to blame for all rookies not being ready early? Or is it just Goff?

Yes, many did.

They got them up to speed enough to play them.

You're right. However, the one thing all of the successful rookies have in common is a HC/OC that either trims the playbook and expands it as the rookie QB becomes comfortable or simplifies the play calling or SOMETHING to help the rookie acclimate.

Fisher won't do that. He's just that old school. He expects the rookie to get fully up to the level in all aspects of the Vet before displacing him.

That is why Fisher has such an issue getting rookies at certain positions to contribute.

Would Pederson be rocking and rolling with Goff? I dunno, but I think it's certainly reasonable to believe that he'd have found a way to have him ready to be productive.

Wentz, Prescott and Brissett, even, have been productive because of functioning schemes and staffs that are committed to seeing them succeed.

The frustrating part for all of us fans on all sides of the QB debate is that we don't know if we got Aaron Rodgers, Alex Smith...or Matt Barkley. Moreover, it really didn't help that all of the hype COMPLETELY ignored the reality that is Jeff Fisher...which we've seen play out.

1) Goff not only didn't start, but he started out as the 3rd string QB and didn't even dress.
2) The offense, including the nightmarish play_calling nomenclature wasn't simplified in order to both improve game/clock management and to more quickly transition the Xs and Os to the field.
3) There is still no clear rep allocation for the QBs beyond getting the starter ready to play (and not every practice is open) so we don't know how much either young QB is getting actual reps with which string.

Thus, while the hype for Goff may, in the abstract, be totally warranted, it's more than a little frustrating that no one can say what we have in young Goff.

The hype is gone for now because...well, it's football season and hype means nothing and it's all about the scoreboard. Which leaves us Rams fans with??? the reality of Fisher.

I'd love to think that the shackles on this scheme are all a function of the limitations of Keenum, but then what explains the first few years?

Essentially, it seems like Fisher's belligerence is holding Goff back because he has more faith in "his way" than he's committed to getting Goff productive....now. I suppose it's possible that Goff is just that far behind, but it almost seems like they're trying to make him seem lost. And I find it hard to believe that he's THAT far behind.

I can't disagree with any of this. Good post.

 

[dieterbrock]

How about Joe Flacco and Sam Bradford? How about Ben Roethlisberger? How about Andy Dalton?

Thank you.
Also when others are being critical of Goff not taking snaps from center, it appears the Rams are taking 70% of their snaps from shotgun.
Yeah the Rams are 2-1 and that's awesome. But Keenum has taken some poor sacks, thrown several INT and an ugly pick 6. These are the things we were supposed to prevent by playing him.

In any event, I think we are closer to seeing Goff play than ever so let the good times roll.

 

[jrry32]

Thank you.
Also when others are being critical of Goff not taking snaps from center, it appears the Rams are taking 70% of their snaps from shotgun.
Yeah the Rams are 2-1 and that's awesome. But Keenum has taken some poor sacks, thrown several INT and an ugly pick 6. These are the things we were supposed to prevent by playing him.

In any event, I think we are closer to seeing Goff play than ever so let the good times roll.

I'm still hoping we see him against Buffalo. Fisher won't start him against Arizona. I know that ship has sailed.

 

[jap]

I'm still hoping we see him against Buffalo. Fisher won't start him against Arizona. I know that ship has sailed.

It seems kinda funny to pay Tavon megabucks, claim he will get 100 receptions, and then start a QB who has little hope of finding Tavon deep (unless he is truly wide open) in a relative forest of DB's. I am beginning to wonder if the Fisher plan all along was to have the veteran Case manage the early quartet of games, which included contests with all NFC West opponents, before turning keys to the offense over to the Golden Boy.

 

[dieterbrock]

I'm still hoping we see him against Buffalo. Fisher won't start him against Arizona. I know that ship has sailed.

Yeah, for him to play against Zona would require something tragic I'm afraid. I don't want to see Keenum get knocked out of a game, or the team mercilessly blown out to get Goff on the field

 

[ausmurp]

There's a good chance Goff is inserted if we get blown out so I'm gonna guess this Sunday. Hope we win though, however unlikely.

 

[-X-]

There's a good chance Goff is inserted if we get blown out so I'm gonna guess this Sunday. Hope we win though, however unlikely.

That's the spirit.

 

[-X-]

The frustrating part for all of us fans on all sides of the QB debate is that we don't know if we got Aaron Rodgers, Alex Smith...or Matt Barkley.

You'll find out soon enough. But I dare say you won't know for a few years anyway. There are too many examples of QBs who come on strong and then fizzle out into nothing, so your impatience may last longer than you might anticipate or even want. In the meantime, direct your ass to a sofa and try to enjoy whatever team this Organization puts on the field. Because wishing it into a different team is only gonna rustle yo jimmies.

 

[Zaphod]

I'm hoping he chose Goff because Goff has progressed to earning the number 2 spot. If he chose him as a confidence boost, shame on him for undermining the team. If Mannion is (more) ready and Goff isn't, I hope he does suit up Mannion this week.



Why people think they didn't try to get him ready, baffles me.



According to Fisher, there were 4 drops last week alone. I think your numbers are very low. Tavon leads the NFL in dropped passes at 4. Britt and Higbee are tied for 5th at 2 each.

Yep, and it's hardly the first season that he's represented in that role either. He just can't be counted on, yet it seems like every new OC tries to force feed him the ball like he's some kind of star wide out. That's crazy. And you'd think that as a strategist you could overlook that with his big play ability, but that gets ugly when our entire receiver corps excels at dropping them. Instead you have a recipe for squandering offensive opportunity.

To make it even more strange, the favorite scapegoat is Brian Quick, but he seems to being doing well in that area. Now, I'm not saying that he's the answer. But we have four pages of conversation on how improving the forward pass will help the rush attack, and we're still talking about starting Goff over Keenum when our receivers historically lead the league in dropped passes. Who will be the scapegoat when Goff plays?

The offensive line is pass blocking well. At least that's coming together. They're starting to run block better. And we're playing the second team in a row now that we can expect to use a fullback with relative success. The team is progressing slowly, but as much as I hate Arians, the Cardinals are no joke.

Now I've already mailed them a can of stickum, so as a fan I've done my part. All I can do now is catch up on the game best as I can since I'll be travelling.

 

[A.J. Hicks]

For those saying Fisher and staff won't trim the playbook to help Goff out. . . . I am really not sure about that conclusion.

We are already trimming the playbook just for Keenum. He may be able to know it and call it but it's trimmed due to his ability with his arm.

I think most agree. Goff should be starting, even if we are taking hiccups. I do believe that Goff is gaining a lot of learning experience watching the games unfold from the sideline - not to say he wouldn't be learning more if he was on the field.

With Goff in the preseason there was certainly good and bad. He made some great throws, finding receivers in tight windows - DOWN FIELD! His arm is what we thought it would be. He even flashed that pocket awareness however that was really inconsistent.

Some of the bad we saw from Goff was interceptions, troubles with center-qb exchange, arrant accuracy, and throwing the ball away vs. taking a sack.

I think one of the biggest gripes we are all having right now is watching and seeing Keenum make some of those very same mistakes. Especially him taking the sacks when he is clearly outside of the tackle box and could just throw the ball away!

 

[-X-]

For those saying Fisher and staff won't trim the playbook to help Goff out. . . . I am really not sure about that conclusion.

We are already trimming the playbook just for Keenum. He may be able to know it and call it but it's trimmed due to his ability with his arm.

Did you have a source for that?

 

[bubbaramfan]

I am reminded of John Elway's first two seasons. He was horrible. Bad reads, bad decisions, bad passes, interceptions. He even lined up under the guard, more than once! Fans were calling in (no internet forums back then) calling Elway a "bust", "why are they playing him", "he's not ready". ad nauseum. The phone in debate on Elway was much like it is here at ROD. Elway really went through a hard learning process. He'll tell you today he wasn't ready for the NFL and should have sat a season. It took him a couple seasons, but look how it turned out for him and the Bronco's.

Just sayin, There's no way of knowing how a top pick is going to turn out or how long it takes to get NFL ready. Some come in and play great right away and are out of the league in 3 or 4 years. Others take a year or two to get NFL ready and last 15 years. Go figure. Goff has the basic skills and mindset, he will go through some hard times but I think he will be fine in the long run.

 

[A.J. Hicks]

Did you have a source for that?

My observations. I guess my statement sounded far more positive than I intended. I really think we'd be seeing a lot more vertical routes and attacks if Keenum weren't in there. He is a solid player. A good guy. He works hard. But he is limited and I truly believe by that very basis the playbook has to be limited with him there.

 

[-X-]

My observations. I guess my statement sounded far more positive than I intended. I really think we'd be seeing a lot more vertical routes and attacks if Keenum weren't in there. He is a solid player. A good guy. He works hard. But he is limited and I truly believe by that very basis the playbook has to be limited with him there.

Okay, just curious. Sounded matter of fact.