Rams not going Oline in round 1?

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iced

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Having trouble finding it - I do remember reading many times though they expected him to gain strength during the season. Did find this though from Turf show Times

http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2014/4/6/5574088/draft-talk-thoughts-on-possible-rams-part-1

Barrett Jones is one name I have avoided this off-season all because of right now. This is the time to go into detail about this kid. Fisher has continuously said the focus with Barrett is for him to get stronger. Barrett basically took a red-shirt. In college 99.9% of freshman that red-shirt, do so because they aren't ready to impact the team or carve out a specific role for themselves. Usually, they need time to grow and get stronger. This is what happened with Barrett. It was also the biggest knock on him coming out of college. He didn't move defenders off of the ball. Rather, he simply shielded them from disrupting the play. But he has drawn nothing but praise for his technique and fundamentals. Coach Fisher has said he's been working at the facility since arriving with strength coach Rock Gullickson. The plan appears to be to get him bigger and stronger, then let him compete for a starting spot. His best fit may be center because of his well documented high football IQ. The center position kind of falls in line with kickers and punters when comes to most under-appreciated positions, but they are required to have one of the higher football IQ's to succeed; especially pre-snap. Their communication with the other offensive lineman, the tight end and running back has to be very good. But the tightest line of communication will always be center to quarterback.

I have ran across a lot of things that claim the higher brass has faith in him:

http://www.rams-news.com/jim-thomas-rams-chat-highlights-march-11/
—Barrett Jones? He could compete for starting job at center or guard.

—Go After Alex Mack? Don’t see that happening. It looks like Wells will be back, and they have Barrett Jones and Tim Barnes in the wings.

http://www.rams-news.com/jim-thomas-rams-chat-highlights-march-18

—Barrett Jones is in their plans.
 

Alan

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Nothing new there except except speculation that he wasn't strong enough. Like I said, that's no different than any other reason why a player isn't good enough to start. The talk about him being "red-shirted" is just hopeful thinking. As far as him competing for a starting job, so are Persons and Washington.

I'm 99.9% certain you won't find anything concrete about this.

Listen, I have hopes he'll be a starter too but it's not looking good so far.
 
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iced

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Nothing new there except except speculation that he wasn't strong enough. Like I said, that's no different than any other reason why a player isn't good enough to start. The talk about him being "red-shirted" is just hopeful thinking. As far as him competing for a starting job, so are Persons and Washington.

I'm 99.9% certain you won't find anything concrete about this.

Listen, I have hopes he'll be a starter too but it's not looking good so far.

i'm 100% confident that Fisher said it. Finding it is another animal together. I do remember reading it chats mostly and during the season (people were talking about the juggling of the guard positions/plus time we didn't have wells). TST also is a pretty reputable site for Rams news; they don't make up quotes, they're generally very credible
 

Alan

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iced returning with:
i'm 100% confident that Fisher said it. Finding it is another animal together. I do remember reading it chats mostly and during the season (people were talking about the juggling of the guard positions/plus time we didn't have wells). TST also is a pretty reputable site for Rams news; they don't make up quotes, they're generally very credible
Let's say you do find something that says that, does it really change anything? A 4th round pick is competing for a starting position on the O-line along with others like Person and Washington. He had good college years in his career but we got him in the 4th round for a couple of reasons. One of them was a perceived lack of talent. He hasn't given us a single shred of hope that they weren't right.

We have a great coach in Bou and maybe he'll be much stronger this year and the combination of those two things will get him over the top. We're all hoping for that but you can't plan a draft on a hope. Or at least I wouldn't do that. :)
 

iced

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Let's say you do find something that says that, does it really change anything?

Not for me - I know I read it and I know its been said. Considering he had surgery less than 3 months before the season and it had been repeated, its not a surprise to read it.

A 4th round pick is competing for a starting position on the O-line along with others like Person and Washington. He had a good college career but we got him in the 4th round for a couple of reasons. One of them was a perceived lack of talent. He hasn't given us a single shred of hope that they weren't right.

Actually the injury was the biggest reason he fell - i almost remember either fisher or boudeau saying he never missed a blocking assignment the year before

Just like Keenan Allen fell after his knee injury - except keenan was considered widely to be one of the top wr 's in his class at that point in the season

Marcus Lattimore in the 4th to the niners - injury...

kinda similar situation to branon thomas - watch him go in the 4th/5th and take the year off to rehab and gain strength, if not contribute at the end of the season (at the earliest)
 
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Memphis Ram

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Since you're refuting, or trying to, something I said, I think it's up to you to find the data that conflicts with mine. I'll make you a deal though. You find a top 96 list that differs significantly from mine and I'll sift through the data to find the significant (if any) differences.

BTW, a difference of 15 players would not be a significant difference unless there was an unreasonable distribution of positions. Such as one list having 3 more OGs than another on it. Without significant changes in the numbers at the positions lacking the most depth the overall look of this draft would remain the same.

Here's my list again:
14 WRs in the top 96 players.

12 CBs in the top 96 players.

11 DTs in the top 96 players.

9 DEs in the top 96 players.

9 OTs in the top 96 players.

9 OLBs in the top 96 players.

6 QBs in the top 96 players.

5 OGs in the top 96 players.

3 FS in the top 96 players.

2 OCs in top 96 players.

Adding or subtracting one or two players from the non-bolded positions would have zero effect on my contention. So not only will you have to find a list that is significantly different from the CBS list I used, you'll also have to find one that causes a significant change in the important data that is responsible for my contention. Let me refresh your memory concerning my contention.
Here it is again: This draft is only deep at certain positions and not at all of them.

Good luck finding something to refute that. ;) I'll be here to help you collate the data when you think you've found one. :)

Sorry, but I refuse to do homework assignments for anyone here. And especially on incomplete lists that change weekly (even though many merely copy from each other). BTW, you might want to consider that the positions listed can be different depending upon the source. ie. Some OTs can also be considered NFL OGs or even OCs and so on, by NFL teams and draftnik media.
 

Alan

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Jones wasn't projected the top of anything. 3rd or 4th rated center. We disagree about why he fell to the 4th.

All of that is just clutter. Are you saying you're counting on Jones to be a starter this year? I assume you are because then what are we disagreeing about? :LOL:

Cause I'm not counting on him at all. Hoping though. Do that's where we really disagree. We'll see how it turns out.
 

iced

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Jones wasn't projected the top of anything. 3rd or 4th rated center. We disagree about why he fell to the 4th.

All of that is just clutter. Are you saying you're counting on Jones to be a starter this year? I assume you are because then what are we disagreeing about? :LOL:

Cause I'm not counting on him at all. Hoping though. Do that's where we really disagree. We'll see how it turns out.

I'm not - but you're assuming that he had a shot to make the roster or was competing for the guard/center job when that's just not true.

What am I saying is when a guy falls to injury and its a fresh one - you can't expect him to start or contribute immediately. I edited this in my last post too late but i'll say it again here:

kinda similar situation to brandon thomas - watch him go in the 4th/5th and take the year off to rehab and gain strength, if not contribute at the end of the season (at the earliest).. and hes widely considered one of the top 5 guards (usually about 3rd)
 

Alan

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Memphis Ram declining the challenge:
Sorry, but I refuse to do homework assignments for anyone here. And especially on incomplete lists that change weekly (even though many merely copy from each other). BTW, you might want to consider that the positions listed can be different depending upon the source. ie. Some OTs can also be considered NFL OGs or even OCs and so on, by NFL teams and draftnik media.
I've never seen a list of top prospects where the position listed for a player wasn't the position he played in college. Who does that, if you don't mind my asking?
 

Alan

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iced with this:
I'm not - but you're assuming that he had a shot to make the roster or was competing for the guard/center job when that's just not true.

What am I saying is when a guy falls to injury and its a fresh one - you can't expect him to start or contribute immediately. I edited this in my last post too late but i'll say it again here:

kinda similar situation to brandon thomas - watch him go in the 4th/5th and take the year off to rehab and gain strength, if not contribute at the end of the season (at the earliest).. and hes widely considered one of the top 5 guards (usually about 3rd)

But he did have a shot and he was competing in practice. He wasn't just lifting weights and riding an exercise bike or something. Are you saying he wasn't practicing every day with the rest of the Rams? If so, that's the first time I've heard that said and I seem to remember hearing camp reports about him too.

What you said about Thomas and what you're saying about Jones could happen. No doubt about that but it's just your projection and hope that it actually will happen. He's not a proven commodity that you know can play in the NFL. Until I know that, I'm not going to plan my offseason around him any more than I would around a player like Persons. Except that I have more hope that Jones will someday be good enough to start.
 

Mojo Ram

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I like the idea of Saffold pulling from the right side while Robinson down blocks the entire left side of the DLine. :D
 

Mojo Ram

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Jake Long
Greg Robinson
Scott Wells
Rodger Saffold
Joe Barksdale
th
 

laramsoriginal

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With B.Jones and Barnes capable of playing C, rams should cut wells. Absolutely no need to bring back an aging and often injured-high priced C
 

Mojo Ram

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With B.Jones and Barnes capable of playing C, rams should cut wells. Absolutely no need to bring back an aging and often injured-high priced C
I agree but unfortunately he's still here and he'll start until he gets hurt again.
 

Alan

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As soon as I finish sharpening my pitchfork I'm gonna pick one up. Plus find my lighter.
 

Ram Quixote

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Jones wasn't projected the top of anything. 3rd or 4th rated center. We disagree about why he fell to the 4th.

All of that is just clutter. Are you saying you're counting on Jones to be a starter this year? I assume you are because then what are we disagreeing about? :LOL:

Cause I'm not counting on him at all. Hoping though. Do that's where we really disagree. We'll see how it turns out.
Jones was rated much higher, before the foot injury. He not only played through the injury in the BCS Champ game, but was a 4-year starter at virtually every position on the Oline. I remember him being a possible 2nd round pick until the injury. There is talent there, but obviously he'll have to prove it to you.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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Has to prove it to me too. I felt he was versatile but really benefitted from being surrounded by a great group in college. On a bad team he wouldn't stand out.
 

Alan

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Ram Quixote with his memories:
Jones was rated much higher, before the foot injury. He not only played through the injury in the BCS Champ game, but was a 4-year starter at virtually every position on the Oline. I remember him being a possible 2nd round pick until the injury. There is talent there, but obviously he'll have to prove it to you.
I remember it differently. His injury wasn't the reason his ratings slid IMO. I think that's hindsight memory. If there is such a thing. :LOL:

Obviously, all these profiles also have a lot of good stuff about him that I didn't post but I posted his weaknesses because it's illustrative of why it wasn't his injury that caused his low ranking. In my opinion, he benefited greatly from a fantastic O-line at Alabama and is simply one of many college players whose game doesn't transfer to the NFL. Like many of the highly rated Bama players who haven't done well in the pros. It's a reason why I'm worried ( along with many others) about picking Ha-Ha even though I hope we do.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1632207/barrett-jones
WEAKNESSES: Doesn't blow defenders off the ball with pure strength. Not a flashy athlete and may struggle to excel at the NFL level.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/barrett-jones?id=2539195
WEAKNESSES
Limited athlete who will be at his best on the inside at the next level. Tends to stop his feet and lunge at pass rushers on the edge. Top-heavy, upright runner on pulls without great foot speed. Gets to the second level well, but can struggle tracking and adjusting to moving targets. Quicker linebackers and defensive backs jump around his lunges if he is unable to get his hands on their numbers. Inconsistent firing out of his stance and staying low on short-yardage plays. Hand placement improved in his senior season, but he has soft hands with a limp punch. Doesn’t play with a mean streak. Can get complacent and will fight for initial position, but doesn’t finish blocks and allows his man to disengage too often. Prone to making his initial block and then ball-watching instead of finding a second target. Has a lengthy injury history (but shows the toughness to play through them) and will need to check out medically.
NFL COMPARISON
Daryn Colledge
Only a 71.1 Grade. That equates to a 4th rounder. he was drafted exactly where he was rated.

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2013bjones.php
Weaknesses:
  • Not the best athlete
  • Not overly strong
  • Not overly fast?
  • Coming off foot injury
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=83261&draftyear=2013&genpos=C
Here's evidence he was competing for a starting job:
  • 12/11/13 - C Barrett Jones was believed to have not played Sunday in his first NFL game active. However, the tape revealed Jones played one snap on special teams.
    12/09/13 - C Barrett Jones, the Rams' fourth-round draft pick, was active for his first NFL game against Arizona, but did not play. With C Scott Wells out with a fractured fibula and Tim Barnes starting, Jones was the backup center.
    07/31/13 - C/G Barrett Jones opened training camp on the non-football injury list because of a foot injury suffered in the SEC Championship Game for Alabama. He passed his physical Sunday, and had significant reps at center with the second and third units Monday.


    Jones would not have been practicing had he still been injured. He competed for a starting job and failed. Not only did he fail to get a starting job, he failed to supplant any of our other backups too. Third team all year long until the Arizona game when he jumped up to second team. Some might say that he wasn't able to work out in the time between his surgery and the start of TC and that is very possibly true but that just amplified one of his weaknesses (lack of strength).

    He'll have another chance to compete this year and hopefully things will work out better for him and us this time. But If we draft a decent G I think he'll still be a backup. He doesn't need to prove it to me Quixote, he needs to prove it to the Rams braintrust.
 
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