Rams future QB situation?

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moklerman

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And the comparison doesn't hold. Vince Young would still be on a roster if he wasn't a sucky QB.

@moklerman I've heard the opposite in regards to Winston. I've heard the guy is immature but a nice guy off the field, really well-liked in the locker-room, and a total clown(in a good way).
Okay, then I fail to see why there is a conspiracy against him. If he's really just a good guy then why all of the various reports at various times?

While some of what's been reported may not be true, I think that's counterbalanced by what I'm sure are many unreported incidents.

I don't think there's any question that this guy has character concerns and I, for one, am in no rush to ever see another Lawrence Phillips on the Rams. Let someone else deal with these types of guys.
 

jrry32

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Okay, then I fail to see why there is a conspiracy against him. If he's really just a good guy then why all of the various reports at various times?

While some of what's been reported may not be true, I think that's counterbalanced by what I'm sure are many unreported incidents.

I don't think there's any question that this guy has character concerns and I, for one, am in no rush to ever see another Lawrence Phillips on the Rams. Let someone else deal with these types of guys.

They're juicy stories. Why did the media follow around Tim Tebow and Johnny Manziel? You think if Winston was the 3rd string Punter, the New York Times would have written that article?

It's not a conspiracy. It's the media being the media.

Well we both know that's not true, but you'll just dig your heels in. Physically gifted and would be perfect backup. But a locker room cancer and head case. There's plenty of less talented QB's on rosters out there.

Winston has made terrible personal choices, and in today's era of social media, there are plenty of seminars and articles for kids in school, and those entering the workforce about the dangers of social media. People have lost jobs over what they posted, people have damaged their chances at getting hired because of it. I'm certain at your University these warnings are quite evident.

From a skill set, I compare Winton to a John Elway, from a brain standpoint Vince Young

No, we both know that's absolutely true. If Vince Young were a quality player, he'd be on a team. When you're mediocre backup QB with attitude problems, you're not going to stick as a backup. BTW, Vince Young was absolutely terrible the last time he got to play...in 2011.

Those less talented QBs are on rosters because they're more mentally adept, better people in the locker-room, and don't cause problems. As I said before, when you're not a quality player, you can't be a fuck up. If Vince Young were a legitimately good QB, he'd still be on a team. But being a mediocre to average backup QB at best, nobody wants him with his attitude problems.

I also don't think Young is the perfect backup at all on the field.

Manning pulled his pants down in front of a trainer, admitted it was inappropriate, and the lady filed 33 incidents against UT which they settled quickly with $300,000. Not quite shoddy police work by a local PD that never asked a single question or took DNA from the single suspect.

Drinking and not working hard is a common complaint among young people.

Big Ben's problems came AFTER he was drafted. Police said Roethlisberger and his attorney cooperated with investigators. And the one eventually settled and got paid by Big Ben. After which she promptly dropped all charges against the people supposedly covering up her rape. This of course happened when he was a hard partying, filthy rich man in the public eye and not an freshman back up QB. Big Ben was also suspended by his team. Unlike Winston who was allowed to play without being asked much of anything.

So it's not quite the same. Why draft him when we are already having this conversation? This is the guy you want to rest the franchise on?

That's not what happened. Manning dropped his pants and sat on the woman's head with his naked rear-end and testicles.(yes, I said testicles) And forced the woman to drag her head out from under him to get free. Then Manning lied about it.

Big Ben's problems coming after he was drafted is irrelevant. Do Steeler fans regret the pick? Does anyone care anymore about those issues? The fact that the guy wasn't in college almost makes it worse.

Why draft him? Because he's that good. You're having the conversation. I don't really care. Unless the rape allegation is investigated and found to be credible. I can't do that. NFL teams will have their opportunity to try if they choose to.
 

moklerman

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They're juicy stories. Why did the media follow around Tim Tebow and Johnny Manziel? You think if Winston was the 3rd string Punter, the New York Times would have written that article?

It's not a conspiracy. It's the media being the media.
Are you saying they're just reporting on this stuff because he's a celebrity? Theft, accused of rape, public disturbance...what else? Anything short of murder is still okay as long as he can throw the ball?
 

jrry32

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Are you saying they're just reporting on this stuff because he's a celebrity? Theft, accused of rape, public disturbance...what else? Anything short of murder is still okay as long as he can throw the ball?

100% yes with the "public disturbance". He yelled an internet meme while standing on the stairs at the Student Union with friends. That's 100% because of who he is.

The theft...nah. But I've heard that's not quite what it seems.

The rape stuff? In a way. The article was slanted the way it was and was reported on because of who he is. But the allegation itself was sufficient too.
 

V3

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All this debate about Winston. I would honestly be shocked if he was even available for the Rams to draft when it's their pick.
 

moklerman

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100% yes with the "public disturbance". He yelled an internet meme while standing on the stairs at the Student Union with friends. That's 100% because of who he is.

The theft...nah. But I've heard that's not quite what it seems.

The rape stuff? In a way. The article was slanted the way it was and was reported on because of who he is. But the allegation itself was sufficient too.
I'm glad you like him but it REALLY sounds like you're excusing everything. Instead of seeing a pattern of questionable behavior you seem to be dismissing all of it. And it seems like you're doing that because you like the way he plays football.

I hope you're proved right. I would prefer there were less a-holes on this planet but I don't think the whole world is conspiring to make this guy look bad. Why aren't they doing the same thing to Hundley or Mariota or whoever?
 

dieterbrock

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100% yes with the "public disturbance". He yelled an internet meme while standing on the stairs at the Student Union with friends. That's 100% because of who he is.
.
And "who he is" is a football player under suspicion of rape.
So its more than just some random internet meme
But hey, he can throw the football so its all good
 

Memento

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There's quite a few good quarterbacks in this class...but I'd much rather have Kevin White than any of them. Think about it. Quick's out for the rest of the season. Pettis is gone, Givens is likely cut next year, and who knows if Kenny Britt will even stay. Austin and Bailey look solid, and hopefully Quick's recovery will go smoothly, but I still want another guy that'll give defensive coordinators nightmares.

Personally, I like Cody Fajardo out of Nevada (since I highly doubt that Gunnar Kiel will enter this draft). Fajardo's a sleeper right now, but I really think that he's going to boost his stock later on.
 

jrry32

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I'm glad you like him but it REALLY sounds like you're excusing everything. Instead of seeing a pattern of questionable behavior you seem to be dismissing all of it. And it seems like you're doing that because you like the way he plays football.

I hope you're proved right. I would prefer there were less a-holes on this planet but I don't think the whole world is conspiring to make this guy look bad. Why aren't they doing the same thing to Hundley or Mariota or whoever?

I'm not excusing or dismissing anything. I just don't choose to jump to conclusions when I don't have the facts.

Has nothing to do with the "whole world conspiring to make this guy look bad". That's simply marginalizing my argument because you disagree with it. Did the whole world conspire to make Johnny Manziel look bad or did the media simply pay him extra attention and write about things regarding him in a certain way because of who he was? I think we both know the answer to that.

It's hard for me to accept the media as objective when that New York Times article was so clearly slanted that it omitted numerous key facts that cut against the point it was arguing.
 

jrry32

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And "who he is" is a football player under suspicion of rape.
So its more than just some random internet meme
But hey, he can throw the football so its all good

No, he's a football player that has never been charged with rape. The DA's office declined to press charges long before Winston said what he did. It was an allegation made...that unfortunately for one of the parties can't be proven or disproven. So unless you're saying that the guy is under suspicion for the rest of his life(which I think is a ridiculous stance to take), I don't see why he can't move on with his life.

It's not more than an internet meme. That's exactly what it was. You're saying because of a past allegation...despite charges being declined, he can't act a certain way. So if that allegation had never happened, you wouldn't think it a big deal? Yea, I don't agree with that logic.
 

blue4

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They're juicy stories. Why did the media follow around Tim Tebow and Johnny Manziel? You think if Winston was the 3rd string Punter, the New York Times would have written that article?

It's not a conspiracy. It's the media being the media.



No, we both know that's absolutely true. If Vince Young were a quality player, he'd be on a team. When you're mediocre backup QB with attitude problems, you're not going to stick as a backup. BTW, Vince Young was absolutely terrible the last time he got to play...in 2011.

Those less talented QBs are on rosters because they're more mentally adept, better people in the locker-room, and don't cause problems. As I said before, when you're not a quality player, you can't be a freak up. If Vince Young were a legitimately good QB, he'd still be on a team. But being a mediocre to average backup QB at best, nobody wants him with his attitude problems.

I also don't think Young is the perfect backup at all on the field.



That's not what happened. Manning dropped his pants and sat on the woman's head with his naked rear-end and testicles.(yes, I said testicles) And forced the woman to drag her head out from under him to get free. Then Manning lied about it.

Big Ben's problems coming after he was drafted is irrelevant. Do Steeler fans regret the pick? Does anyone care anymore about those issues? The fact that the guy wasn't in college almost makes it worse.

Why draft him? Because he's that good. You're having the conversation. I don't really care. Unless the rape allegation is investigated and found to be credible. I can't do that. NFL teams will have their opportunity to try if they choose to.


So it's a one sided conversation and after all this you don't actually care? Mmkay. Of course, Manning claims it was much different but you have no problem siding with the alleged victim there to make a point. The fact is Manning was in the wrong no matter what. At least he fessed up to something. She at least got some justice. And what any other QB has done is completely irrelevant to the Rams and their upcoming draft. You can dredge up whatever you want to justify taking a player you don't care about. Won't change my opinion one bit in regards to THIS player.
 

dieterbrock

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No, he's a football player that has never been charged with rape. The DA's office declined to press charges long before Winston said what he did. It was an allegation made...that unfortunately for one of the parties can't be proven or disproven. So unless you're saying that the guy is under suspicion for the rest of his life(which I think is a ridiculous stance to take), I don't see why he can't move on with his life.

It's not more than an internet meme. That's exactly what it was. You're saying because of a past allegation...despite charges being declined, he can't act a certain way. So if that allegation had never happened, you wouldn't think it a big deal? Yea, I don't agree with that logic.
It's all good, because he's good at throwing a football.
 

jrry32

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So it's a one sided conversation and after all this you don't actually care? Mmkay. Of course, Manning claims it was much different but you have no problem siding with the alleged victim there to make a point. The fact is Manning was in the wrong no matter what. At least he fessed up to something. She at least got some justice. And what any other QB has done is completely irrelevant to the Rams and their upcoming draft. You can dredge up whatever you want to justify taking a player you don't care about. Won't change my opinion one bit in regards to THIS player.

I do care about taking the player. I just don't care about the supposed character concerns beyond the rape allegation. Which isn't something I can investigate and from the facts out there, it's entirely uncertain what happened that night.

As far as the Manning situation is concerned, there's no double standard. Another athlete from Tennessee that was in the room at the time verified the woman's story. In the Winston case, the opposite occurred.
The court record includes a letter to Manning from former Tennessee cross country runner Malcolm Saxon, who Manning said was the intended target of the mooning. Written in December 2002, the letter reads, in part: "Bro, you have tons of class, but you have shown no mercy or grace to this lady who was on her knees seeing if you had a stress fracture. ...

"She was minding her own business when your book came out. Peyton, the way I see it, at this point, you are going to take a hit either way, if you settle out of court or if it goes to court. You might as well maintain some dignity and admit to what happened. ... Your celebrity doesn't mean you can treat folks that way. ... Do the right thing here."
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/colts/2003-11-04-manning-suit_x.htm

It's all good, because he's good at throwing a football.

The crab legs and the internet meme comment? Absolutely. The rape allegation will have to be investigated because the facts that currently exist are entirely unclear.
 

dieterbrock

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Yeah just theft and a vulgar comment. It's all good because as long as he can throw a football it's cool.
 

jrry32

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Yeah just theft and a vulgar comment. It's all good because as long as he can throw a football it's cool.

You're damn right. I'm going to assume you've never made a vulgar comment? I have. I think it's absolutely meaningless.

The theft is meaningless to me unless it happens again. I've heard that there was an understanding between the store and boosters that the players take it and the boosters pay the store for it and the clerk wasn't aware of that. But even if he did attempt to steal the crab legs, it was what...$26 worth a crab legs? There are players on the Rams that have done just as bad or worse.

I'm not going to pass on a talent like Winston over $26 of crab legs. So yea, it's all good because he can throw a football well...but lets not pretend that only applies to me. Do you refuse to cheer for any Rams players that committed a felony or were kicked off their college team?
 

paceram

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Are the Rams really down to just Austin Davis & Shaun Hill as their QB's on their roster? Seems a little risky to me. Hopefully, Fisher plans on adding another QB soon.
 

Riverumbbq

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Are the Rams really down to just Austin Davis & Shaun Hill as their QB's on their roster? Seems a little risky to me. Hopefully, Fisher plans on adding another QB soon.
Hekker may be the best of the bunch ... :LOL:
 

dieterbrock

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You're damn right. I'm going to assume you've never made a vulgar comment? I have. I think it's absolutely meaningless.

The theft is meaningless to me unless it happens again. I've heard that there was an understanding between the store and boosters that the players take it and the boosters pay the store for it and the clerk wasn't aware of that. But even if he did attempt to steal the crab legs, it was what...$26 worth a crab legs? There are players on the Rams that have done just as bad or worse.

I'm not going to pass on a talent like Winston over $26 of crab legs. So yea, it's all good because he can throw a football well...but lets not pretend that only applies to me. Do you refuse to cheer for any Rams players that committed a felony or were kicked off their college team?
I get it. As long as he's good at football the rest can be minimized. Got it.
Do me a favor, at thanksgiving dinner this year, jump up on the dinner table and shout out that same "internet meme". Good luck with that.
 

jrry32

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I get it. As long as he's good at football the rest can be minimized. Got it.
Do me a favor, at thanksgiving dinner this year, jump up on the dinner table and shout out that same "internet meme". Good luck with that.

He didn't jump on a table. That's the media running with a story rather than checking facts. He said it while on the stairs of the student union with friends.

Yes, you get it. So since you seem to get it, go ahead and make your thread demanding the Rams cut Janoris Jenkins, Jo-Lonn Dunbar, Robert Quinn, and Trumaine Johnson. After all, being good at football clearly doesn't minimize immature and criminal behavior off the field. You shouldn't want them on our team.

Or does your standard not apply to everyone? Is it okay to minimize bad behavior for certain players and not others?