Positional summary & cap look

[fearsomefour]

:eek::shocking::headexplosion:

Exactly.

 

[Merlin]

The numbers seem a lil high....6 is a above average starter, ehhh?

I knew someone would question the grades. And I knew it'd be you.

It's funny, I actually felt on some of them like I was being too critical. So yeah, they're subjective, but still you can see the problem areas pretty clearly simply by grading the group vs the cap hits...

OLB is just terribly low quality roster-wise for a playoff team. Unit needs help badly.

CB of course has overhaul coming, clearly. UFA plus non-elite performance usually means that.

TE low production too, given a McVay offense.

And OL. Just a ton of landmines for Les there with that unit man.

 

[Merlin]

Yeah I omitted Tavon because I consider him to be a 100% cut. Not even worth discussing, and best of luck to him.

Re: cap hits, I wanted to try to look at business side vs production, which I think is valuable in trying to guess how the Rams approach this offseason. Lot of different ways they could approach things tbh so we are in for a wild ride this year.

 

[LACHAMP46]

LOL

OLB is just terribly low quality roster-wise for a playoff team. Unit needs help badly.

CB of course has overhaul coming, clearly. UFA plus non-elite performance usually means that.

TE low production too, given a McVay offense.

And OL. Just a ton of landmines for Les there with that unit man.

ILB...need a new...GOOD one....I'm cool with Quinn, Samson, and Longacre for 2018.

CB...agree...deep cb draft.

TE....don't get me started on Everett & Higbee...

 

[LACHAMP46]

It seems to me that Kromer like smart quick thinking OL'ers over brawn.

Can't run in the playoffs...when you need to...when the defense knows it's coming...with those...unless...they can move...sorta like Newberry in the old days.

 

[BonifayRam]

I would say both in terms of resources.
So, what's the plan?

OK :coffee: now that I have picked up the pieces of my one working brain cell this is how I would respond to my excellent wise Ram fan question to me ....So, what's the plan?...of course subject to change @ any given time.

Its very difficult to nail down just what the Ram Org will do but if I had to offer up some of my thoughts & suggestions this is what I would plan:

Prior to March Free Agency:
#1)- Starting NOW! before March Free Agency- {A.} Sigh LG/LT Rodger Saffold to an 3 yr extension contract. This prevents the OL Train-wreak coming next yr at this time when Rams will be dealing with 3 starting UFA OL's without contracts FA'cy Saffold's extension great insurance in preparing for LT Andrew Whitworth retirement or injury. Buys time to groom a new future starting LT prospect. {B.} Increase discussions on lg. term contract on DT Aaron Donald in order to have a clear concise understanding of what the Cap ramifications will be with AD under contract before FA'cy begins.

March 14th 2018 UFA'cy

#2)-Let Sammy Watkins, Trumaine Johnson, Conner Barwin & Dom Easley enter Free Agency "to test the rich wealthy waters of UFA'cy" with a clear understanding Rams are open to them returning to warm sunny weather of LA @ a fair market contracts some point later after the first two weeks of FA'cy. At the same time plan to replace or move on without them.

#3)-Top Ram Org. UFA objectives- FS/CB Lamarcus Joyner $$$, Nickle Back Nickell Robey-Coleman $$ OC John Sullivan $. Then the 2nd tier UFA's- FS Cody Davis, LS Jake McQuaide, NT Tyrunn Walker.

#4)-Tender & secure 2nd rd offers to RFA's CB Troy Hill , RB Malcolm Brown, OLB Matt Longacre & LT Darrell Williams.

#5)- Move on Non Ram UFA Signings : {A.} UFA starting Interior OL'er examples ...Spencer Long or Justin Pugh. {B.} Inside SS LB'er like Todd Davis, Mychal Kendricks or Mason Foster. (This has impact on Mark Barron future).

Late April 2018 Draft

#6)- Plan {A.} Make it known Tavon Austin, Rob Quinn & Mark Barron are available for trade. Tade for players/ additional dratt selections or utilized as value added in move up the draft board spots to secure the desired prospects ahead of our assigned slots

#7)- If there are no takers then cut them before June 1st to greatly beef up the drained salary cap $$$ funds.

#8)- Continue to plan the Rams Draft to select the BPA in units that are in need of upgrading/improvement: Outside CB's, Edge Rushers/ OLB'ers, a NT & a Interior LB'er prospect. That's six of the eight 2018 Rams draft selections.

 

[nighttrain]

I hope the Rams FO offers Sammy Watkins & Trumaine Johnson contracts before they hit FA. Give them the chance to make a decision before the whiners or another offer money we cannot afford to match. I like every other issue you have addressed
train

 

[fearsomefour]

OK :coffee: now that I have picked up the pieces of my one working brain cell this is how I would respond to my excellent wise Ram fan question to me ....So, what's the plan?...of course subject to change @ any given time.

Its very difficult to nail down just what the Ram Org will do but if I had to offer up some of my thoughts & suggestions this is what I would plan:

Prior to March Free Agency:
#1)- Starting NOW! before March Free Agency- {A.} Sigh LG/LT Rodger Saffold to an 3 yr extension contract. This prevents the OL Train-wreak coming next yr at this time when Rams will be dealing with 3 starting UFA OL's without contracts FA'cy Saffold's extension great insurance in preparing for LT Andrew Whitworth retirement or injury. Buys time to groom a new future starting LT prospect. {B.} Increase discussions on lg. term contract on DT Aaron Donald in order to have a clear concise understanding of what the Cap ramifications will be with AD under contract before FA'cy begins.

March 14th 2018 UFA'cy

#2)-Let Sammy Watkins, Trumaine Johnson, Conner Barwin & Dom Easley enter Free Agency "to test the rich wealthy waters of UFA'cy" with a clear understanding Rams are open to them returning to warm sunny weather of LA @ a fair market contracts some point later after the first two weeks of FA'cy. At the same time plan to replace or move on without them.

#3)-Top Ram Org. UFA objectives- FS/CB Lamarcus Joyner $$$, Nickle Back Nickell Robey-Coleman $$ OC John Sullivan $. Then the 2nd tier UFA's- FS Cody Davis, LS Jake McQuaide, NT Tyrunn Walker.

#4)-Tender & secure 2nd rd offers to RFA's CB Troy Hill , RB Malcolm Brown, OLB Matt Longacre & LT Darrell Williams.

#5)- Move on Non Ram UFA Signings : {A.} UFA starting Interior OL'er examples ...Spencer Long or Justin Pugh. {B.} Inside SS LB'er like Todd Davis, Mychal Kendricks or Mason Foster. (This has impact on Mark Barron future).

Late April 2018 Draft

#6)- Plan {A.} Make it known Tavon Austin, Rob Quinn & Mark Barron are available for trade. Tade for players/ additional dratt selections or utilized as value added in move up the draft board spots to secure the desired prospects ahead of our assigned slots

#7)- If there are no takers then cut them before June 1st to greatly beef up the drained salary cap $$$ funds.

#8)- Continue to plan the Rams Draft to select the BPA in units that are in need of upgrading/improvement: Outside CB's, Edge Rushers/ OLB'ers, a NT & a Interior LB'er prospect. That's six of the eight 2018 Rams draft selections.

Right, so no depth development for the OL.
Best hope for interior line is continued development of Blythe and or Neary.

 

[Merlin]

Reading @BonifayRam's summary above it occurred to me that a tag & trade is an option too. It's not something we've discussed, but it can help recoup value.

So in the event the Rams tag Sammy, that might be the eventual plan with him, i.e. recoup of value. Doubt they'd risk that with Trumaine what with the contract they'd have to pay him if nobody played ball with them. But wideouts are always desired on the market and if there's a return in trade it helps them to address the created need with a pick in a draft where they are missing that 2nd rounder.

Of course things would need to align for the Rams to come to that decision. They'd need to get, say, Joyner locked up quickly and not have that hanging over their heads. But just throwing that out there for discussion.

 

[BonifayRam]

Right, so no depth development for the OL.
Best hope for interior line is continued development of Blythe and or Neary.

Rams will have several draft selections remaining to draft the developmental OT's. However Kromer has 3 currently.... in OC/OG Austin Blythe 24 yrs old, OG/OC Aaron Nearly 25 ys & OC/OG/RT Jake Eldrenkamp 23 yrs So I do look @ them fearsomefour as developmental already being groomed up for a season by Kromer & his OL assistant.

In addition they will have 24 yr old LT Darrell Williams remaining under development. There also a slight change that Kromer may like what time he has invested in mammoth sized Swing OT Cornelius Lucas 26 yrs old,who might be a very easy economy priced UFA signing too.

As you can see I concentrated heavy on building the future Ram OL from previous starting OL'ers. I suggested that we secure both veteran center John Sullivan & veteran OG/LT Rodger Saffold for several yrs into the future. In addition I also suggested securing a NON Ram UFA young Veterans like OC/OG Spencer Long or a OG/RT Justin Push both young 27 yr olds yet to enter into their primes as OL'ers.

With the way todays NCAA footbal teams run their offensives ....These college OL'ers predominately exit college ill prepared for professional NFL. Very very few work in pro style offenses that assist them for the next step. It take years of development much like QB's to master the basic skills to line up & play effectively. By the time the coach gets the these drafted Ol'ers up to par they are UFA's in 4 yrs with not much rewards having being paid in return to the team who did all the hard work & priceless investments in 1st or 2nd day draft selections.

 

[Merlin]

Right, so no depth development for the OL.
Best hope for interior line is continued development of Blythe and or Neary.

I do think Saff's value is greater up until the point where they get a young LT in here for depth. But he is under contract and they might elect to lock up Havenstein instead, for a couple reasons. One, he is younger, and two, he is probably cheaper to lock up to an extension. Brown of course is a possibility too, although he had more of a tendency to make mistakes, depends on how they view their upside maybe.

In addition they will have 24 yr old LT Darrell Williams remaining under development.

Williams is an RFA 2018 / UFA 2019. So even if he develops a bit more he's going to hit FA after the Rams have paid up on some dudes in 2018. He's effectively a two year depth primarily, assuming they don't upgrade OT depth somehow where he'd be fighting for his roster spot.

 

[fearsomefour]

Rams will have several draft selections remaining to draft the developmental OT's. However Kromer has 3 currently.... in OC/OG Austin Blythe 24 yrs old, OG/OC Aaron Nearly 25 ys & OC/OG/RT Jake Eldrenkamp 23 yrs So I do look @ them fearsomefour as developmental already being groomed up for a season by Kromer & his OL assistant.

In addition they will have 24 yr old LT Darrell Williams remaining under development. There also a slight change that Kromer may like what time he has invested in mammoth sized Swing OT Cornelius Lucas 26 yrs old,who might be a very easy economy priced UFA signing too.

As you can see I concentrated heavy on building the future Ram OL from previous starting OL'ers. I suggested that we secure both veteran center John Sullivan & veteran OG/LT Rodger Saffold for several yrs into the future. In addition I also suggested securing a NON Ram UFA young Veterans like OC/OG Spencer Long or a OG/RT Justin Push both young 27 yr olds yet to enter into their primes as OL'ers.

With the way todays NCAA footbal teams run their offensives These college OL'ers predominately exit college ill prepared for professional NFL. Very very few work in pro style offenses that assist them for the next step. It take years of development much like QB's to master the basic skills to line up & play effectively. By the time the coach gets the these drafted Ol'ers up to par they are UFA's in 4 yrs with not much rewards having being paid in return to the team who did all the hard work & priceless investments in 1st or 2nd day draft selections.

Hard to believe Williams is only 24, seems like he has been on the team 10 years.

 

[Merlin]

Rams will have several draft selections remaining to draft the developmental OT's. However the Rams do have 3 currently in OC/OG Austin Blythe 24 yrs old, OG/OC Aaron Nearly 25 ys & OC/OG/RT Jake Eldrenkamp 23 yrs so the team does have some developmental already being groomed up.

In addition they will have 24 yr old LT Darrell Williams remaining under development. There also a slight change that Kromer may like what time he has invested in mammoth sized Swing OT Cornelius Lucas 26 yrs old,who might be a very easy economy priced UFA signing too.

As you can see I concentrated heavy on building the future Ram OL from previous starting OL'ers. I suggested that we secure both veteran center John Sullivan & veteran OG/LT Rodger Saffold for several yrs into the future. In addition I also suggested securing a NON Ram UFA young Veterans like OC/OG Spencer Long or a OG/RT Justin Push both young 27 yr olds yet to enter into their primes as OL'ers.

I'm not as high on the depth as you are Boni. Blythe showed well in a depth role for us, so he's critical. The rest of them, though, meh.

For this year's draft I would target a midround OG type and go that route. Boosts the interior depth, which, with Saff moving over to LT for this next year as the first depth option behind Big Whit protects us a bit. Not as good an approach as going and getting a LT in the draft, but it does allow them to go defense early and often which I think is important.

Good thing here re: the depth is that Kromer clearly knows what he's doing. So I feel far better if they do stand pat on the depth than I would have in previous seasons.

 

[Rams43]

OK :coffee: now that I have picked up the pieces of my one working brain cell this is how I would respond to my excellent wise Ram fan question to me ....So, what's the plan?...of course subject to change @ any given time.

Its very difficult to nail down just what the Ram Org will do but if I had to offer up some of my thoughts & suggestions this is what I would plan:

Prior to March Free Agency:
#1)- Starting NOW! before March Free Agency- {A.} Sigh LG/LT Rodger Saffold to an 3 yr extension contract. This prevents the OL Train-wreak coming next yr at this time when Rams will be dealing with 3 starting UFA OL's without contracts FA'cy Saffold's extension great insurance in preparing for LT Andrew Whitworth retirement or injury. Buys time to groom a new future starting LT prospect. {B.} Increase discussions on lg. term contract on DT Aaron Donald in order to have a clear concise understanding of what the Cap ramifications will be with AD under contract before FA'cy begins.

March 14th 2018 UFA'cy

#2)-Let Sammy Watkins, Trumaine Johnson, Conner Barwin & Dom Easley enter Free Agency "to test the rich wealthy waters of UFA'cy" with a clear understanding Rams are open to them returning to warm sunny weather of LA @ a fair market contracts some point later after the first two weeks of FA'cy. At the same time plan to replace or move on without them.

#3)-Top Ram Org. UFA objectives- FS/CB Lamarcus Joyner $$$, Nickle Back Nickell Robey-Coleman $$ OC John Sullivan $. Then the 2nd tier UFA's- FS Cody Davis, LS Jake McQuaide, NT Tyrunn Walker.

#4)-Tender & secure 2nd rd offers to RFA's CB Troy Hill , RB Malcolm Brown, OLB Matt Longacre & LT Darrell Williams.

#5)- Move on Non Ram UFA Signings : {A.} UFA starting Interior OL'er examples ...Spencer Long or Justin Pugh. {B.} Inside SS LB'er like Todd Davis, Mychal Kendricks or Mason Foster. (This has impact on Mark Barron future).

Late April 2018 Draft

#6)- Plan {A.} Make it known Tavon Austin, Rob Quinn & Mark Barron are available for trade. Tade for players/ additional dratt selections or utilized as value added in move up the draft board spots to secure the desired prospects ahead of our assigned slots

#7)- If there are no takers then cut them before June 1st to greatly beef up the drained salary cap $$$ funds.

#8)- Continue to plan the Rams Draft to select the BPA in units that are in need of upgrading/improvement: Outside CB's, Edge Rushers/ OLB'ers, a NT & a Interior LB'er prospect. That's six of the eight 2018 Rams draft selections.

I like the way you roll, Bonifay.

Bold and decisive.

Nicely done, sir!

 

[BonifayRam]

I do think Saff's value is greater up until the point where they get a young LT in here for depth. But he is under contract and they might elect to lock up Havenstein instead, for a couple reasons. One, he is younger, and two, he is probably cheaper to lock up to an extension. Brown of course is a possibility too, although he had more of a tendency to make mistakes, depends on how they view their upside maybe.

Williams is an RFA 2018 / UFA 2019. So even if he develops a bit more he's going to hit FA after the Rams have paid up on some dudes in 2018. He's effectively a two year depth primarily, assuming they don't upgrade OT depth somehow where he'd be fighting for his roster spot.

Finding a eventual starting LT later down in the draft is rare & difficult So I would ask you when did the Rams develop a starting LT to start? Now developing a RT is something completely different would you agree? Rams did draft & start a RT rather early even though we had some serious growing pains in 2016. As a example when you watch the Saint this weekend watch their Rookie very late first round RIGHT OT

 

[Merlin]

Finding a eventual starting LT later down in the draft is rare & difficult So I would ask you when did the Rams develop a starting LT to start? Now developing a RT is something completely different would you agree? Rams did draft & start a RT rather early even though we had some serious growing pains in 2016. As a example when you watch the Saint this weekend watch their Rookie very late first round RIGHT OT

Honestly I'm not sure what you're gettin at here Boni.

I agree it's not realistic to expect Les to find a starting caliber LT in this particular draft. First because they draft at 23rd, which makes it tough outside of an insanely deep OT draft. And secondly because as you say those guys are hard to find outside round 1 period due to the need of teams. The fact that the Rams have other needs that will be strongly represented at 23 makes it a virtual lock that they won't risk a reach on the position due to need either (thankfully).

If Les is that concerned with Big Whit, then trade up and go get your LT. IMO. It's either that, or put some lipstick on that platypus and squeeze another year out of it. I prefer the latter.

 

[BonifayRam]

Honestly I'm not sure what you're gettin at here Boni.

I agree it's not realistic to expect Les to find a starting caliber LT in this particular draft. First because they draft at 23rd, which makes it tough outside of an insanely deep OT draft. And secondly because as you say those guys are hard to find outside round 1 period due to the need of teams. The fact that the Rams have other needs that will be strongly represented at 23 makes it a virtual lock that they won't risk a reach on the position due to need either (thankfully).

If Les is that concerned with Big Whit, then trade up and go get your LT. IMO. It's either that, or put some lipstick on that platypus and squeeze another year out of it. I prefer the latter.

I believe that you & I are pretty much on the same page here presently Merlin sorry if I did not make myself clear.

Let me see if I get you where we are at in this discussion here. We are solidly in agreement on your 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th sentences. You & I have no way of knowing the amount of concern with AW by Snead until Snead flys me back in for another meeting I hate the LA traffic but the helicopter transport flight was a blast that one time:rolllaugh:. All speculation on my part. But I sure he would not be surprised if the oldest starting LT in the NFL decided to pack it in after earning over 9 million last season. But HOPEFULLY the enticement of earning over 12 million in 2018 is a good one. But a aging worn-down body..will not care much about that 12 million plus.

My point was I would not go in the direction of in this draft with using priceless limited draft assets seeking a LT prospect, I see no real immediate benefit nor offer up much comfort to the Rams in the immediate NEAR future if there were to have a critical issue @ the LT position early in 2018.Do you?

On top of that I do NOT see any valid options in the 2018 UFA'cy @ LT. Do you? . What I was getting at ...is to look at more @ solutions more under your control.... options that involves a current Ram & a formerly starting LT for several NFL seasons & still currently the Rams #1 back up @ LT posts = Rodger Saffold & you might make that option available longer than just 1 yr. I would move on that plan ASAP.

Have I confused you even more:notsure:?

 

[Merlin]

I believe that you & I are pretty much on the same page here presently Merlin sorry if I did not make myself clear.

Let me see if I get you where we are at in this discussion here. We are solidly in agreement on your 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th sentences. You & I have no way of knowing the amount of concern with AW by Snead until Snead flys me back in for another meeting I hate the LA traffic but the helicopter transport flight was a blast that one time:rolllaugh:. All speculation on my part. But I sure he would not be surprised if the oldest starting LT in the NFL decided to pack it in after earning over 9 million last season. But HOPEFULLY the enticement of earning over 12 million in 2018 is a good one. But a aging worn-down body..will not care much about that 12 million plus.

My point was I would not go in the direction of in this draft with using priceless limited draft assets seeking a LT prospect, I see no real immediate benefit nor offer up much comfort to the Rams in the immediate NEAR future if there were to have a critical issue @ the LT position early in 2018.Do you?

On top of that I do NOT see any valid options in the 2018 UFA'cy @ LT. Do you? . What I was getting at ...is to look at more @ solutions more under your control.... options that involves a current Ram & a formerly starting LT for several NFL seasons & still currently the Rams #1 back up @ LT posts = Rodger Saffold & you might make that option available longer than just 1 yr. I would move on that plan ASAP.

Have I confused you even more:notsure:?

Fully agree man. It's a tough situation, but it could be far worse lol. There are teams who would kill to have Big Whit under contract for next season. Him as a starter with Saff as a primary backup is an above average combo. So for me if they want to improve OL depth go get an OG midrounds and plan to delve into the OL next year. Other than that the only thing to consider is extension/s to ease the next offseason.

Plus I just feel like the defense needs only a few changes to get into that elite range. It's time to invest in this defense IMO. Get them well under that 19 ppg range and this team will run the table in this division and have zero issues getting deep into the playoffs.