Offensive linemen blast PFF grades, NFL coaching

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

Memphis Ram

Legend
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
6,668
Offensive linemen blast PFF grades, NFL coaching

Sporting News

Ron Clements

BBsEOBp.img
© (Getty Images) Chance WarmackFour NFL offensive linemen spoke with CBS Sports' Pete Prisco and unloaded on the state of coaching in the NFL.

The four linemen — Chicago Bears tackle Bobby Massie, Bears guard Kyle Long, Tennessee Titans guard Chance Warmack and New York Giants center Weston Richburg — also slammed the grades handed out by Pro Football Focus.

Massie, Long, Warmack and Richburg were four of about 30 linemen working out at the O-Line Performance Center, owned and operated by former NFL lineman LeCharles Bentley.

The linemen said the grades given by PFF, cited often as a gauge to judge how well a player is performing, are given by people who don't know the nuances of the game.

"It's for people who never played a down in the league and don't understand what an offensive lineman does, so how can they grade it?" Massie told Prisco as part of a lengthy round-table discussion. "You can snap back at people, but it's frowned upon."

Warmack said the grades are "annoying," but Long took it a step further, saying the people giving the grades "don't know how to buckle up a helmet."

PFF, which is co-owned by former Cincinnati Bengals receiver and NBC Sports NFL analyst Cris Collinsworth, wasn't the only target of criticism from the four linemen. The players also blasted the state of coaching in the NFL.

Long, Massie, Warmack and Richburg said offensive line play in the NFL has declined for a variety of reasons — less practice time, limited contact in practice, free agency affecting cohesion, and the implementation of spread offenses. But the main reason listed was a lack of fundamental teaching by coaches.

"What is good technique? Even if you have coaches who want to implement the techniques, it's not the right way," Warmack said. "You do the same thing 1,000 times and it's wrong. Then you get in the game and they want me to block an All-Pro three-technique and you've been doing the same thing that's wrong since April. And it's October, and you get torn out the frame (on film). It's your fault. Not his fault. It's our fault."

To get the coaching they can't get from their respective coaching staffs, the linemen traveled to Arizona to learn from Bentley — a two-time Pro Bowler during his seven-year NFL career with the New Orleans Saints and Cleveland Browns.

"Show me your All-Pro jersey, coach, and I will do what you do. LeCharles Bentley has one of those," Long told Prisco. "At some point, you have to say I am doing what you tell me to do. But at the same time, you spend eight weeks here with LeCharles and eight weeks with elite guys like Weston, Chance and Bobby. You take things from each other. Why be here if you're not going to take what you learn here? Everybody has a tool belt. We load that sucker up here. That's what we take pride in doing."

Warmack, a first-round pick of the Titans in 2013, said a former Titans offensive line coach isn't qualified to be an NFL offensive line coach.

"I had one dude (coach) who played D-III football at linebacker," the former Alabama lineman said of Bob Bostad, who played football at the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point. "And he's teaching me how to play offensive line? If there's nothing wrong with that, you tell me.

"I play offensive line. I don't play linebacker. I definitely didn't play D-III football. Not knocking D-III schools out there. We're talking about the highest level of football in the world. And you have a guy who has never put his hand in the dirt teaching me how to block. You don't think there's anything wrong with that? I appreciate a coach who is open-minded to questions and comments. They don't want to hear a question that questions their philosophy. When they are closed-minded, it stunts the growth of the offensive lineman."

Bostad, currently the tight ends and fullbacks coach at Northern Illinois University, was the Titans offensive line coach from 2014-2015 after holding the same position with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2012-13. Prior to joining the Bucs, Bostad had been an offensive line and/or tight ends coach at UW-Stevens Point, Cal State Northridge, San Jose State, New Mexico and Wisconsin.

"In practice you have to do what the coaches want to make them happy," Massie added. "Make them feel like they have the big d— in the room. On game day, you have to do your own stuff. The coaches, they're not out there blocking. They're in a big, comfortable chair with the clicker. The O-line and D-line are the best athletes on the field. It's not the quarterback, the receivers or the corners. We're going against the biggest, strongest, fastest in the world."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...pff-grades-nfl-coaching/ar-BBsEYo0?li=BBnb7Kz
 

Selassie I

H. I. M.
Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
17,620
Name
Haole
Hopefully his new line coach has actually played o-line in the past. LOL
 

99Balloons

Pro Bowler
Joined
Mar 28, 2016
Messages
1,336
Name
G
Hopefully the coaching and instructions Greg Robinson is getting at the LeCharles Bentley will help him hold his own on the left side of the OL.

I wonder if coach Boudreau is teaching GR the same thing what LeCharles Bentley is teaching him.
 

VeteranRamFan

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Camp Reporter
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
2,112
Name
Dale
This scenario can be played out in just about any walk of life. My example, I was a field tech for a giant telecom. New the job frontwards and backwards. Could do it in my sleep after 26 years of playing with copper wires and climbing poles. Got bored with it, went into management. Did very well there because I had done the job before and could relate to my crews! Well now I'm in a different department, managing fiber optic splicers, building networks. Totally different job. Boy did I struggle with understanding what my guys were telling me. I had to take direction from my boss (who never did the job) on how things should be ran (according to the bean counters in the ivory tower of pure thought; headquarters). Didn't take long for me to realize that things were not going well. So I listened to my crew, I watched them work, I let them do their job until I felt confident that when I spoke on a matter, I sounded somewhat knowledgeable. Guess what, my guys now say "Don't try to B.S. him, he knows what's going on!".

Moral of the story - Listen, observe, learn.

If you hear it, you'll forget it.
If you see it, you'll remember it.
If you do it...you'll understand it.

That's my mantra and it works for me!

GO RAMS!
 

OldSchool

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
ROD Credit | 2022 TOP Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
38,386
Well they're certainly not wrong.
 

woofwoofmo

65 Toss Power Trap
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
598
I can tell you for a fact the Rams coaches don't put any validity on the grades PFF gives for the OL and they believe that those that use them for a gauge are very uninformed.
 

Ram65

Legend
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
9,597
You don't hear much about the position coaches in suck a negative way.

Looks like LeCharles Bentley could be on to something big.
 

jrry32

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
29,790
Can't disagree with their opinions on PFF. It's an interesting site and back when they provided the premium stats, it had a lot of usefulness. But the grades have never been useful.

I also can't disagree on position coaches. You'd be surprised at how many of these guys jump from position to position. Some can do it because they're just that good. Others can't. Means you end up with some assistant coaches who know jackshit.
 

Debacled

Starter
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
571
You don't hear much about the position coaches in suck a negative way.

Looks like LeCharles Bentley could be on to something big.
Unless you know, these guys don't improve this upcomming season.

Nothing like a guy walking in the door saying everything has been done wrong, and its being done wrong now, and he is the one to fix it.

Bentley is running his own business. He got these 4 guys to buy into what he is selling....thats great and all. Doesn't mean there is a systematic failure with coaches teaching players how to play.

They are right about one thing, they are on the field and the coaches are not. Funny they want to place the blame on the coaches for their on the field failures though. Just sounds like a bunch of guys looking to dole out blame to everyone but themselves.
 

RaminExile

Hall of Fame
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
3,065
I know what they're saying - but I don't agree that the only way someone can teach is by having done it personally. Some people might not have had the physical ability - sure, and they might not understand the pain and the physical demands of these guys, but there's no reason they can't understand technique and if they are good communicators then they can pass that along whether they played at a pro bowl level or not.

That said - I do believe the best techniques are passed on by the experts. If you want to learn, learn from those who already excel.
 

jrry32

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
29,790
Unless you know, these guys don't improve this upcomming season.

Nothing like a guy walking in the door saying everything has been done wrong, and its being done wrong now, and he is the one to fix it.

Bentley is running his own business. He got these 4 guys to buy into what he is selling....thats great and all. Doesn't mean there is a systematic failure with coaches teaching players how to play.

They are right about one thing, they are on the field and the coaches are not. Funny they want to place the blame on the coaches for their on the field failures though. Just sounds like a bunch of guys looking to dole out blame to everyone but themselves.

That's not how I read it. They criticized the coaching while taking responsibility for their play on the field. And they're probably right.

Surprised a Rams fan would be so combative towards this point. Anyone remember Steve Loney?
 

drasconis

Starter
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
810
Name
JA
Jim Hanifan- college receiver (UC) one year in CFL

but these guys wouldn't listen to him...he never played oline in NFL....
 

OldSchool

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
ROD Credit | 2022 TOP Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
38,386
Jim Hanifan- college receiver (UC) one year in CFL

but these guys wouldn't listen to him...he never played oline in NFL....
They're not saying they wouldn't listen to. They're saying they've listened to people coaching them that didn't know what they're doing and that's part of the problem.
 

drasconis

Starter
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
810
Name
JA
They're not saying they wouldn't listen to. They're saying they've listened to people coaching them that didn't know what they're doing and that's part of the problem.


just hate the argument ""I play offensive line. I don't play linebacker. I definitely didn't play D-III football. Not knocking D-III schools out there. We're talking about the highest level of football in the world. And you have a guy who has never put his hand in the dirt teaching me how to block. You don't think there's anything wrong with that?"

This statement right here indicates that if he walks out of the locker room and the coach hasn't been a OL himself then the coach starts in a hole in his mind. Strike one, bad first impression, how ever you want to look at it. it strongly implies he is gong to question everything that guy teaches him rather than be open to learning .

There are plenty of guys who have played the game at Oline and couldn't teach/coach other players...there are guys who are great players that can't do it.

I also agree there are plenty of coaches who can't coach, yes guys get bounced around and yes there are plenty of guys getting coaching jobs they have no capability of doing. I just do not like the old bias argument "they haven't done it they can't teach it" which is a derivative of the old "you don't do it so you can't criticize". It is a weak argument that actually makes me question the person raising it and their open-mindedness.