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iced

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No man. Not a single one of those articles addresses the issue. As I said earlier, the real issue concerning the exemptions are the one that gives the NFL non-profit status. Two of those articles are almost completely about that fact. the first is just a vague reference and there is no real mention of what exemption they would go after.

There is no real reason for Congress to go after the league's exemption for their ability to negotiate as a group. If they did, they would have to apply that rule for all pro leagues. And that just isn't going to happen. And quit trying to narrow what I say to merchandising. If a ruling applies to the NFLs ability to negotiate as a single entity while still being independent businesses, it doesn't in any way limit it to just merchandising. Otherwise, do you think the NFL would have been seeking broader interpretation?

Its not a threat because they negotiated as a group - its whether or not they would get rid of it.They negotiated the TV Contracts AS a group - hence everyones share of TV Market Revenue...and last year, according to shane gray,those were in the low $200 millions for each share
 

RamFan503

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Its not a threat because they negotiated as a group - its whether or not they would get rid of it.They negotiated the TV Contracts AS a group - hence everyones share of TV Market Revenue...and last year, according to shane gray,those were in the low $200 millions for each share
I don't understand what you are saying here. Not a comment on it - I honestly don't get what you are saying.
 

8to12

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Like I said before in my earlier posts, it's more than one post. The one you quoted was simply the first one I found. The post before that one talks about how the team should move cities before any division realignment because the Rams were in the West for 48 years in LA. You don't think that may cause a STL Rams fan to blink a bit? Combine that with a few more references to 50 years and so on (remember the post on how the Rams coming back to LA will "RESTORE" their proud history. As if it was lost because of location) and you get the reason for my posts.


My post about the Rams being in LA almost 50 years compared to Cleveland was in direct response to @wsaladen who said, "The St.Louis Rams are where they belong and need to be, in St.Louis. I like the sound of the LA Raiders better. The only city that can argue about the team returning home is Cleveland not LA, remember. The Rams are here to stay. "

I thought the post was ignorant and disrespectful to those of us fans in California. I normally don't feel the need to post things like this, but I felt it was warranted. I respect the 20 years the Rams have spent in St Louis, I am even a PSL holder. I will continue to visit St Louis for Ram games if they stay and get a new stadium there. I have my opinions of what may happen regarding the LA situation but I keep them to myself out of respect to the fans in St Louis. When someone speaks in absolutes like they did in the referenced then, then I am going to respond.
 

bluecoconuts

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On topic of the NFL doing market studies to see how many LA fans go to Chargers games, that question was NOT in the study.
 

Thordaddy

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It may have been said before , but the basis of the non profit exemption is not to avoid taxes , the teams pay taxes on the leagues income , it is done that way so that all the teams expenses don't have to be run through the leagues tax return and thereby make every expenditure a team makes a bona fide concern of every other owner.
So if for example Kevin Demoff wanted a new desk it's entirely conceivable he'd need permission from the league to buy it.
FWIW people as succesful as Stan and Jerry Jones aren't about to lay out the kind of money they do only to turn over control of their operating expenditures to that degree in either direction, some of them have been motivated to chisel on the salary cap, and it would also give rise to a degree of scrutiny i.e. audits that at some point would remove ALL autonomy and would close the loop- of suspicion that the whole damned thing was fixed.
If this gets to an appeal to authority about this I have a degree in accounting and graduated cum laude .
 

blue4

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My post about the Rams being in LA almost 50 years compared to Cleveland was in direct response to @wsaladen who said, "The St.Louis Rams are where they belong and need to be, in St.Louis. I like the sound of the LA Raiders better. The only city that can argue about the team returning home is Cleveland not LA, remember. The Rams are here to stay. "

I thought the post was ignorant and disrespectful to those of us fans in California. I normally don't feel the need to post things like this, but I felt it was warranted. I respect the 20 years the Rams have spent in St Louis, I am even a PSL holder. I will continue to visit St Louis for Ram games if they stay and get a new stadium there. I have my opinions of what may happen regarding the LA situation but I keep them to myself out of respect to the fans in St Louis. When someone speaks in absolutes like they did in the referenced then, then I am going to respond.


I feel the same way, that's why I responded as I did. I felt it was warranted.
 

blue4

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On topic of the NFL doing market studies to see how many LA fans go to Chargers games, that question was NOT in the study.



Wonder why, as it appears to me to be as relevant as how many Rams fans are in LA. It seems like they would include that if for no other reason then to prove or disprove Spanos's claim of 25% fan support.
 

RamFan503

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Wonder why, as it appears to me to be as relevant as how many Rams fans are in LA. It seems like they would include that if for no other reason then to prove or disprove Spanos's claim of 25% fan support.
Add that to the long list of "wonder whys". It must be longer than this thread by now.
 

bluecoconuts

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Wonder why, as it appears to me to be as relevant as how many Rams fans are in LA. It seems like they would include that if for no other reason then to prove or disprove Spanos's claim of 25% fan support.

The survey was back in October, it just asked about interest in the NFL, likelihood to buy seats/suits, types of amenities preferred (dome, tailgating, restaurants, etc), other events NFL or not NFL you might be interested going to, in stuff like that. That was the bulk of the questions.

There wasn't much about specific teams, those questions did include what teams you liked, if that would change if a different team moved there, how your support would change if a team that moved there if it wasn't the one you liked, and if the team identity mattered.

They also asked if you went to any games, and if you planning on going to any games. Nothing about season tickets, and nothing about what games you had went to. It did ask you to list any games you were planning on going to in the near future, but nothing about what games you went to earlier in the season. I thought that was a little interesting, but I didn't really think much of it at the time. Obviously if you mentioned the teams you like was the Chargers and were planning on going to their games, they could figure that out one, but there wasn't any question like "How many games of your favorite team do you go to a year".

They only sent the survey to a few thousand people, mostly rich guys and business owners. I got one due to my father, same with a buddy. Most people got them from their work. I know how a few people answered, but not most obviously. A buddy of mine (who is not a football fan at all) felt the survey was designed to prove a point already made, and the questions were designed to lead the survey taker there unknowingly. Overall it was mostly about what kind of shit you wanted to see and how much money would you spend.
 

dieterbrock

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Just a side note, but I really dislike when folks cite Cleveland as a home that the Rams left. It's not even in the same realm as the Rams leaving LA. One of the reasons the Rams headed west was the fact that Cleveland was getting another franchise, the Browns and it was loaded with Ohio talent. So in no way did the Rams leave Cleveland in the lurch like they did in LA or if they unfortunately leave St Louis. Its just not the same thing
 

iced

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Just a side note, but I really dislike when folks cite Cleveland as a home that the Rams left. It's not even in the same realm as the Rams leaving LA. One of the reasons the Rams headed west was the fact that Cleveland was getting another franchise, the Browns and it was loaded with Ohio talent. So in no way did the Rams leave Cleveland in the lurch like they did in LA or if they unfortunately leave St Louis. Its just not the same thing

I'm with you - but I think some of the Pro-LA crowd need to be careful when saying things "I want the Rams to come home". Should be easy to see why St.Louis fans can get defensive.

Imagine being with your wife/gf and her ex walks up "Hey I wish you'd come home."


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2SuF9wxBjs
 

bluecoconuts

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I'm with you - but I think some of the Pro-LA crowd need to be careful when saying things "I want the Rams to come home". Should be easy to see why St.Louis fans can get defensive.

Imagine being with your wife/gf and her ex walks up "Hey I wish you'd come home."


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2SuF9wxBjs


On that same analogy,

Imagine if you were trying to get your first and only love back, who left you for another guy that bought her things and promised the world when you were at your lowest, and she was getting ready to go, and the boyfriend was trying to figure out ways to force her to stay with him telling you that it won't happen no matter what she wants.

I think there's a certain amount of oversensitivity, I see people constantly go on the offensive when there's any potential comment about their city, even if its noy much, yet I see many of those same people "liking" comments that go the other way.
 

iced

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On that same analogy,

Imagine if you were trying to get your first and only love back, who left you for another guy that bought her things and promised the world when you were at your lowest, and she was getting ready to go, and the boyfriend was trying to figure out ways to force her to stay with him telling you that it won't happen no matter what she wants.

I think there's a certain amount of oversensitivity, I see people constantly go on the offensive when there's any potential comment about their city, even if its noy much, yet I see many of those same people "liking" comments that go the other way.

And if you were that guy coming up to my girl, better believe i'd be getting defensive lol...
 

iced

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http://www.insidesocal.com/nfl/2015...-you-are-running-out-of-time-to-keep-raiders/

NFL to Oakland: You are running out of time to keep Raiders
Posted on April 19, 2015 by Vincent Bonsignore
When NFL Vice President Eric Grubman visited last week with the San Diego task force in charge of coming up with a stadium plan to keep the Chargers in San Diego, the message was clear: With Los Angeles beckoning, time isn’t just of the essence to get something done, it’s rapidly running out.

Grubman met with Oakland officials later in the week, and while he didn’t offer a comment on the meeting when I reached out to him, some details are beginning to emerge.

Not surprisingly, essentially the same message was delivered to Oakland that was given to San Diego.

Los Angeles is a real option. And right now we have serious issues with the plans you are promoting.

In other words, where we stand today, things aren’t looking good in either city to keep their teams.

“I think the thing will come to a head in the next couple of weeks,” Alameda County Supervisor Scott Haggerty said in a story the San Francisco Chronicle.

Haggerty made the comment after a meeting Wednesday with Grubman that included Oakland City Council President Lynette Gibson McElhaney, Raiders owner Mark Davis and team President Marc Badain, and developer Floyd Kephart.

“The NFL is pushing extremely hard to get some answers,” Haggerty said.

The biggest question is money, according to the Chronicle.

Davis says he wants to stay in Oakland but doesn’t have the deep pockets to pay for what is likely to be a $1 billion replacement for the Coliseum, even with help from the league.

At the same time, city and county officials have made it clear that they won’t dip into their general fund to pay for a new stadium.

That leaves Kephart, the developer behind the proposed Coliseum City development in which a stadium will be built for the Raiders.

Much like the San Diego plan to build a Chargers stadium as part of a bigger development on the site of Qualcomm Stadium in Mission Valley, the NFL has serious misgivings about putting projects in the hands of developers who rely on revenue from other aspects of the project to finance the stadium.

That creates too many timing issues and raises questions about the validity of financing.

And with the Raiders and Chargers nearing entitlement on their joint stadium in Carson – full approval is expected Tuesday – Oakland and San Diego are running out of time solving issues the NFL and the Raiders and Chargers have deep concerns about.

“At this point, the league seems to be giving Los Angeles a better shake than they are giving us,” Haggerty told the Chronicle.
 

iced

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I don't understand what you are saying here. Not a comment on it - I honestly don't get what you are saying.

booze + conversing w/ the gf while trying to type doesn't always work well lol

I meant they negotiated as 1 company... Good way to think of the NFL is 1 business with 32 board members and a puppett (Goodell)
 

blue4

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On that same analogy,

Imagine if you were trying to get your first and only love back, who left you for another guy that bought her things and promised the world when you were at your lowest, and she was getting ready to go, and the boyfriend was trying to figure out ways to force her to stay with him telling you that it won't happen no matter what she wants.

I think there's a certain amount of oversensitivity, I see people constantly go on the offensive when there's any potential comment about their city, even if its noy much, yet I see many of those same people "liking" comments that go the other way.

A lot of the time people "like" the tone of the post or they're appreciating a conciliatory post or something like that. It can be a way of ending a extended exchange with no hard feelings even though you still disagree. It can also be an appreciation of a well reasoned argument despite the fact you still disagree.

It's funny because I've done that on a lot of posts in this thread.
 

BuiltRamTough

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http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/co...5ce5-8056-3e2c862d6874.html?mobile_touch=true
McClellan: Financial plan for stadium like neither ham nor eggs : News

Good morning, suckers. How’s the weather in fly-over country today?

I read in the sports section the other day that National Football League Executive Vice President Eric Grubmanwas in San Diego and Oakland, Calif., last week urging those cities to move quickly to build new stadiums in order to prevent the Chargers and Raiders from moving to the Los Angeles area. He reportedly told a San Diego radio station that of the three cities facing the loss of a team, only St. Louis “had produced a clear financing plan for a new stadium.”

Really? We have a clear financing plan?

Advertisement: Story Continues Below

I was reminded of the late U.S. District Court Judge William Hungate. When some attorney would make a specious argument, Hungate would say, “If you had ham, you could have ham and eggs, if you had eggs.”

Truth is, we don’t have a financing plan. At least not a realistic one. Our plan calls for a team and the league to kick in about $450 million. Rams owner Stan Kroenke does not intend to spend millions of dollars to build us a stadium. In fact, he’s ready to break ground on a stadium in Inglewood, Calif., near Los Angeles. In the unlikely event the league would tell him he has to stay here, he’d almost certainly opt to stay at the Dome on a year-to-year lease. That way, he could retain his free agent status.

In addition to that $450 million that we don’t have much chance of getting, our plan calls for about $350 million of public money.

Where are we going to get it? The state is broke. The Legislature is cutting social services. Part of this is ideological — the anti-welfare crowd has come up with the Strengthening Missouri Families Act to motivate poor families to become self-sufficient by knocking them off of welfare — but part of it is a nod to financial reality. We don’t have money to build another stadium.

Especially in St. Louis. Outstate people don’t like us. I remember when then-Gov. Matt Blunt said Democrats live only in places where people don’t want to live. The Republican governor was talking about St. Louis. Don’t expect money from Jefferson City.

Forget about St. Louis County. In 2004, county voters passed a charter amendment that said no financial assistance would go to a professional sports facility without a public vote. That amendment passed 72 percent to 28 percent. That vote was taken well before Stan Kroenke got control of the Rams and morphed into Henry Potter.

These days, the sentiment is so strong against public funding for a new stadium that the stadium boosters have given up on county money. You guys are off the hook, Gov. Jay Nixon told County Executive Steve Stenger.

That leaves the city of St. Louis. Fortunately, the city has more money than it knows what to do with. Oh, wait a minute. The city is broke, too. What’s more, city voters also overwhelmingly passed an ordinance that prohibited financial assistance to a professional stadium without a public vote. City voters passed that ordinance in 2002. The Rams had a popular owner then. The Greatest Show on Turf was still a vivid memory.

Now the Dome Authority has filed a lawsuit seeking to avoid a public vote. The lawsuit claims the ordinance is “overly broad, vague and ambiguous.”

“Our issue is time — not a public vote,” said David Peacock, who is spearheading the new stadium proposal.

Just because you’re in a hurry means you can overrule the will of the people? I know what Judge Hungate would have said to that argument.

To complicate matters, John Ammann, a St. Louis University law professor and head of the legal clinic, has threatened to sue the city to force a public vote.

Does this sound like a “clear financing plan” to you?

Let’s remember this about Eric Grubman. In January, he was asked about comments that Dallas Cowboys’ owner Jerry Jones made to the New York Times that Kroenke could move to Los Angeles without the league’s permission. Grubman dismissed the comments and said Jones made them in the heat of the moment after his team lost to Green Bay in a playoff game. “A lot of passion and emotion. And he gets hit with that question from an out-of-town reporter … .”

It turns out those comments were made a week earlier in an interview in Jones’ office.

Clearly, Grubman will say whatever will help his cause. In this latest matter, we’re being used. Grubman is using our “financial plan” to try to get San Diego and Oakland off the dime. After all, those teams need new stadiums. The Rams are going to Los Angeles.
 

ChrisW

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http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/co...5ce5-8056-3e2c862d6874.html?mobile_touch=true
McClellan: Financial plan for stadium like neither ham nor eggs : News

Good morning, suckers. How’s the weather in fly-over country today?

I read in the sports section the other day that National Football League Executive Vice President Eric Grubmanwas in San Diego and Oakland, Calif., last week urging those cities to move quickly to build new stadiums in order to prevent the Chargers and Raiders from moving to the Los Angeles area. He reportedly told a San Diego radio station that of the three cities facing the loss of a team, only St. Louis “had produced a clear financing plan for a new stadium.”

Really? We have a clear financing plan?

Advertisement: Story Continues Below

I was reminded of the late U.S. District Court Judge William Hungate. When some attorney would make a specious argument, Hungate would say, “If you had ham, you could have ham and eggs, if you had eggs.”

Truth is, we don’t have a financing plan. At least not a realistic one. Our plan calls for a team and the league to kick in about $450 million. Rams owner Stan Kroenke does not intend to spend millions of dollars to build us a stadium. In fact, he’s ready to break ground on a stadium in Inglewood, Calif., near Los Angeles. In the unlikely event the league would tell him he has to stay here, he’d almost certainly opt to stay at the Dome on a year-to-year lease. That way, he could retain his free agent status.

In addition to that $450 million that we don’t have much chance of getting, our plan calls for about $350 million of public money.

Where are we going to get it? The state is broke. The Legislature is cutting social services. Part of this is ideological — the anti-welfare crowd has come up with the Strengthening Missouri Families Act to motivate poor families to become self-sufficient by knocking them off of welfare — but part of it is a nod to financial reality. We don’t have money to build another stadium.

Especially in St. Louis. Outstate people don’t like us. I remember when then-Gov. Matt Blunt said Democrats live only in places where people don’t want to live. The Republican governor was talking about St. Louis. Don’t expect money from Jefferson City.

Forget about St. Louis County. In 2004, county voters passed a charter amendment that said no financial assistance would go to a professional sports facility without a public vote. That amendment passed 72 percent to 28 percent. That vote was taken well before Stan Kroenke got control of the Rams and morphed into Henry Potter.

These days, the sentiment is so strong against public funding for a new stadium that the stadium boosters have given up on county money. You guys are off the hook, Gov. Jay Nixon told County Executive Steve Stenger.

That leaves the city of St. Louis. Fortunately, the city has more money than it knows what to do with. Oh, wait a minute. The city is broke, too. What’s more, city voters also overwhelmingly passed an ordinance that prohibited financial assistance to a professional stadium without a public vote. City voters passed that ordinance in 2002. The Rams had a popular owner then. The Greatest Show on Turf was still a vivid memory.

Now the Dome Authority has filed a lawsuit seeking to avoid a public vote. The lawsuit claims the ordinance is “overly broad, vague and ambiguous.”

“Our issue is time — not a public vote,” said David Peacock, who is spearheading the new stadium proposal.

Just because you’re in a hurry means you can overrule the will of the people? I know what Judge Hungate would have said to that argument.

To complicate matters, John Ammann, a St. Louis University law professor and head of the legal clinic, has threatened to sue the city to force a public vote.

Does this sound like a “clear financing plan” to you?

Let’s remember this about Eric Grubman. In January, he was asked about comments that Dallas Cowboys’ owner Jerry Jones made to the New York Times that Kroenke could move to Los Angeles without the league’s permission. Grubman dismissed the comments and said Jones made them in the heat of the moment after his team lost to Green Bay in a playoff game. “A lot of passion and emotion. And he gets hit with that question from an out-of-town reporter … .”

It turns out those comments were made a week earlier in an interview in Jones’ office.

Clearly, Grubman will say whatever will help his cause. In this latest matter, we’re being used. Grubman is using our “financial plan” to try to get San Diego and Oakland off the dime. After all, those teams need new stadiums. The Rams are going to Los Angeles.

Who pissed in his Cheerios?

In addition to that $450 million that we don’t have much chance of getting, our plan calls for about $350 million of public money.

Where are we going to get it? The state is broke.

The money is already there. You extend the bonds. I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. IIRC, the money can't be repurposed into any other benefits, so why not extend the bonds and keep the team's tax money coming into the state? Isn't it enough to offset the cost of the bonds per year anyway?

Just because you’re in a hurry means you can overrule the will of the people? I know what Judge Hungate would have said to that argument.


Welcome to the good 'ole US of A. It's built on loop holes like these.


I really just want to know what has pissed off everyone at the PD so badly that all they want to do is write off the Rams as goners. Seriously, someone had to do something major to piss off this write, Bernie, and well JT (but I think we know his rage stems from the Bradford trade.)
 

BuiltRamTough

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Who pissed in his Cheerios?



The money is already there. You extend the bonds. I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. IIRC, the money can't be repurposed into any other benefits, so why not extend the bonds and keep the team's tax money coming into the state? Isn't it enough to offset the cost of the bonds per year anyway?




Welcome to the good 'ole US of A. It's built on loop holes like these.


I really just want to know what has pissed off everyone at the PD so badly that all they want to do is write off the Rams as goners. Seriously, someone had to do something major to pee pee off this write, Bernie, and well JT (but I think we know his rage stems from the Bradford trade.)
The money is there, only if it doesn't go to a vote.
 

Hacksaw

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less than half the money is there unless it goes to a vote.

Chris I noticed this too. what's up with all the local riders lately? it makes it seem like they might know something we don't but I doubt that.

1 thing I am might note, is that grubmans spin and all this talk sounds a bit like he's trying to persuade the carson and saint louis projects respectively with a pinch of preference. could be legal posturing though.
 
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