MMQB - Oopsed when I merged. This is Den's Dysfunction thread.

[FRO]

Fisher and Snead haven't gotten the most out of the offense due to other positions that aren't the QB position. Put a quality team around Bradford or Goff and you'll get a quality offense. Put a quality team around Foles and you'll get a league average offense. The Rams haven't put a quality team around the QB. If I had a time machine and could go back to 2012 I would tell Snead and Fisher to build the line through each of the next 5 drafts gradually with top 100 picks. To eschew raw upside players and pick solid football players. All we need is an average offense capable of score 3 TDs a week and we'll win a fair share of games. But if the line isn't built there will be no winning. Rams built a masterful defensive line. It allows a very average back half of the defense to succeed. The Rams haven't come close to doing the same on offense and it has hindered everything.

 

[blackbart]

Tony Romo played with the same offensive line, had Demarco Murray and he only won more than 8 games 1 time in the last 4-5 years. There is something special about Prescott, he's not just a product of the best o-line in football.
But yes, Dallas was looking for a QB in this draft. They had eyes on Wentz, many thought it was a good landing spot for Paxton Lynch. No, Dallas didn't just get lucky, they were going to draft a QB and ended up with a bulls eye.
In any event, this whole conversation stems from the idea that QB play, and poor play at that, is what kept the Rams from winning games. And the QB play on the team has had a significant drop off in the last couple years, (Since Shotty left) due to a combo of inexperienced OC and below average journeyman QB.
That responsibility does fall on Fisher's shoulders

Al Michaels just said the Cowboys wanted Conner Cook but the Raiders moved in front of them to get him so the Cowboys went with the consolation prize (the guy I wanted from our original spot FWIW)

 

[Zero]

@-X- NFL

 

[RamFan503]

Fisher and Snead haven't gotten the most out of the offense due to other positions that aren't the QB position. Put a quality team around Bradford or Goff and you'll get a quality offense. Put a quality team around Foles and you'll get a league average offense. The Rams haven't put a quality team around the QB. If I had a time machine and could go back to 2012 I would tell Snead and Fisher to build the line through each of the next 5 drafts gradually with top 100 picks. To eschew raw upside players and pick solid football players. All we need is an average offense capable of score 3 TDs a week and we'll win a fair share of games. But if the line isn't built there will be no winning. Rams built a masterful defensive line. It allows a very average back half of the defense to succeed. The Rams haven't come close to doing the same on offense and it has hindered everything.

Not sure if it makes sense and maybe it's just me. But this certainly points to the coach yet it spells things out. It is critical but contains talking points. I am very tired of the fire Fisher posts but this? Not so much. Maybe I just need a beer.

 

[Florida_Ram]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xau3Ph1JHVE&feature=youtu.be&list=TLGGrUdSnqRlEzMwODEyMjAxNg

 

[FRO]

Not sure if it makes sense and maybe it's just me. But this certainly points to the coach yet it spells things out. It is critical but contains talking points. I am very tired of the fire Fisher posts but this? Not so much. Maybe I just need a beer.

Think we're all tired. Winning cures all and that hadn't happened since George W Bush's first term. I was still in high school. We were having Warner/Bulger debates. We didn't even have razor phones yet. LeBron James was a rookie. Enough is enough. I don't care if the Rams have to do Patriots style cheating, just win!!!

 

[thirteen28]

And some TE's.

I'm still hopeful for Higbee ... and maybe Hemmingway can do something. Both are rookies at a position where rookies rarely make an impact.

 

[RamFan503]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xau3Ph1JHVE&feature=youtu.be&list=TLGGrUdSnqRlEzMwODEyMjAxNg

Florida - I merged this thread with the other. It was supposed to merge into Den's original thread on the subject. Just so you know, we will do that if there are multiple threads on the same subject.

 

[-X-]

To eschew raw upside players and pick solid football players.

This, I think, is the whole problem. It's been communicated by Snead since the beginning that they put a premium on highly athletic players with high ceilings that they can coach up. This is opposed to solid blue-collar type guys who have a higher floor. I can see the merits of doing it that way, because if you hit on most of them, then you have a freak roster. The problem is that you sacrifice stuff when you take that approach. They might not be as fundamentally sound, or they might not be as bright. It's unfortunate, but I think a lot of the guys they drafted are falling on the 'not so bright' end of the spectrum and their athletic gifts aren't offsetting that. Every once in a while it'll all come together for them and they'll play a good game, but it's not consistent. I don't believe, for one second, that this is a coaching problem. No coaching staff in the NFL neglects to drill fundamentals or neglects to rep stuff until it's second nature. It's in the manual. But if you do those things and the players are still fucking up, then you have to reevaluate your draft strategies.

 

[Zero]

that they can coach up.

That's the problem.They can't coach them up.I mean name one olineman they have developed
You can't tell me we have not had kids through here that could be competent starters.the ones that do show promise go down hill after a year or so.

 

[-X-]

That's the problem.They can't coach them up.

Or, as I said, they're being coached, but are inconsistent with their own performances and execution.

 

[Zero]

Or, as I said, they're being coached, but are inconsistent with their own performances and execution.

I honestly believe that if the current staff is replaced,that
you will see players who struggled before all of sudden
start shining.

 

[FRO]

This, I think, is the whole problem. It's been communicated by Snead since the beginning that they put a premium on highly athletic players with high ceilings that they can coach up. This is opposed to solid blue-collar type guys who have a higher floor. I can see the merits of doing it that way, because if you hit on most of them, then you have a freak roster. The problem is that you sacrifice stuff when you take that approach. They might not be as fundamentally sound, or they might not be as bright. It's unfortunate, but I think a lot of the guys they drafted are falling on the 'not so bright' end of the spectrum and their athletic gifts aren't offsetting that. Every once in a while it'll all come together for them and they'll play a good game, but it's not consistent. I don't believe, for one second, that this is a coaching problem. No coaching staff in the NFL neglects to drill fundamentals or neglects to rep stuff until it's second nature. It's in the manual. But if you do those things and the players are still freaking up, then you have to reevaluate your draft strategies.

Totally agree. Its like investing in stock. The raw players are that risky stock that can pay huge dividends. It makes sense if you are an already established team to take that risk every now and again just like it would make sense for a rich person with piles of cash to maybe take some of it and invest in something risky. If you're like me and aren't rich and invest for retirement, it's probably better to play things much safer and make sure you get solid return on investment. Yes "safe" players bust too. Rams went with too many high risk high reward offensive types and it has come back to bite them.

The team isn't 2009 bad. With a few moves in the offseason it can compete for the playoffs. Just seems like a golden opportunity was passed.

 

[blackbart]

I honestly believe that if the current staff is replaced,that
you will see players who struggled before all of sudden
start shining.

Where are these guys now? The ones the Rams staff couldn't coach up but are now playing well for another team.

 

[Warner4Prez]

Because that's rational.

They have been geographically active as of late.

:rimshot:

 

[-X-]

I honestly believe that if the current staff is replaced,that
you will see players who struggled before all of sudden
start shining.

Certainly possible, but I wouldn't count on all of the current players being retained if that were to happen. At any rate, I didn't say that these players don't shine. I said they're inconsistent. There's a lot of one-step forward, two-steps back going on around here, and I can't be convinced that they're not being taught to play smart. If someone kept teaching me advanced calculus and I never really got the hang of it, then it's a me problem.

 

[RamFan503]

 

[FRO]

I honestly believe that if the current staff is replaced,that
you will see players who struggled before all of sudden
start shining.

I'm asking because I honestly don't know, but has there ever been evidence of a staff getting fired and a new staff comes in with the same players and gets a huge difference in results, not just wins and losses either. This is a really bad offense no matter which way you look at it. You can't blame it all on coaching. It's talent deficient too. I'm not saying the coaching has been great on offense, it clearly hasn't. I just struggle to blame just one thing.

To your point about coaching up, how do you make Brian Quick learn the playbook faster? Is there a way to get Robinson to stop holding, he had issues with it in college? How do you get more production out of Austin when his route running is suspect? Again I'm not saying the coaches bear zero responsibility, I just don't think it's all on them.

 

[-X-]

Totally agree. Its like investing in stock. The raw players are that risky stock that can pay huge dividends. It makes sense if you are an already established team to take that risk every now and again just like it would make sense for a rich person with piles of cash to maybe take some of it and invest in something risky.

I think we see eye-to-eye on this.