Let's talk about Defensive End for a moment

[Lesson]

The Rams have a great crop of DEs, when healthy:

Quinn
Long
Hayes
Sims
Westbrooks
Longacre

However, I'm a bit concerned. Hayes and Long are both going to be 31 next year. Long's missed significant time this season and last season. And while Sims, Westbrooks, and Longacre are nice guys to have in a rotation, they aren't on the same level as Quinn/Long/Hayes.

So my question is, why not draft a DE in the 3rd round?

 

[HE WITH HORNS]

Long is going to have to take a pay cut next season if he is going to be a Ram. He has missed too much time, and counts for too much money on the salary cap. I love him as a player and as a person, but the business side is going to kick in I assume this offseason.

 

[ChrisW]

I love Chris and thank him for everything he's done for us. But, he's going to be cut if we want to move forward. We need to free up all the money we can, and not be weighed down by under performers on large contracts.

 

[gabriel18]

I know everyone loves CL but just watch him every play . He is a non factor 99% of the time . He was terrible in the past rush and screen game yesterday . JMHO

 

[JonRam99]

I know everyone loves CL but just watch him every play . He is a non factor 99% of the time . He was terrible in the past rush and screen game yesterday . JMHO

I've just got to agree. Maybe he's playing hurt, I don't know, but we got to get another DE to at least push him and/or replace him. F/A may have a lot of opportunities for this this year, @jrry32 has a couple of intriguing options over in the NCAA thread.

 

[LumberTubs]

I hate to say it because too many people have bashed Long in the past when he was seriously under appreciated but he barely troubled the Lions RT yesterday whenever I was watching him specifically.

He'll be better come next season when he's healthy. Just not sure we can continue paying him at this level when he's missed significant time for two seasons in a row now. We've overpaid too many injury prone players recently for that to continue.

 

[BonifayRam]

I know everyone loves CL but just watch him every play . He is a non factor 99% of the time . He was terrible in the past rush and screen game yesterday . JMHO

Sad but true Chris Long last two seasons (15/16) have not been kind to him. Rams Org spent paid over 17 million this season alone for the services of Hayes & Long with getting only 4 1/2 sacks this season coming from these ultra high cost veteran DE's.

Hayes has been the main starter @ LDE for the last two seasons. WH started 9 in 2015 & 8 in 2016. CL has been in the position of playing when he was healthy as the relief and mostly on passing downs. The evidence from the hard stats & film is CL is not a force @ DE. So over the last two seasons the Rams have paid a back up relief DE over 25 1/2 million. Maybe we should have used that $$ for a veteran OL'er? CL is due to be paid a little under 15 million in 2016. NOT going to happen.

Fisher's current starting veteran DE Eugene Sims & who has finished 8 games as our starting RDE in place of Rob Quinn has only ONE sack. Both 30 yr old Sims & 31 yr old Hayes will enter free agency in a few months as UFA's along with our main & only reserve 27 yr old DT Nick Fairley.

When you look at the stats in tackles being made by our DL Nick Fairley his tackles is high @ 27, Fairley has just about doubled the tackles than any of our starting DE's outside of Hayes. Long has only 14 & Sims has 13 tackles. Rookie UDFA John Longacre who is 5th DE on the Rams roster has only played in 4 games has 10 tackles & UDFA (2014) Ethan Westbrooks has 13 tackles all in very limited action!

Back to Chris Long, many have posted that CL will have to take a big pay cut to remain here in 2016.....I would ask why? There are many NFL teams who have been in DE famine. These teams will vastly over pay for a veteran class act DE like Chris Long . I also think CL would like to have a chance to finally play for a wining team after a full NFL career of non winning seasons. I sure would not want to deny him that opportunity because time IS running out fast on him.

Fact is IMO it time to move on from CL here. Rams have an all pro DE in Rob Quinn. Rams also have two young DE reserves signed who in limited action like CL have close to the same tackles as CL in Ethan Westbrooks & John Longacre. I think its vert clear that it would be best IMO that Hayes would be my #1 sought after UFA DL'er for a short 2 yr contract if possible let Sims & Long depart. If Hayes is hesitant to sign back with a loosing team & the release of his best friend CL, then I am going real hard after Nick Fairley & look to draft a good young DE in the 2016 draft.

 

[DaveFan'51]

I've just got to agree. Maybe he's playing hurt, I don't know, but we got to get another DE to at least push him and/or replace him. F/A may have a lot of opportunities for this this year, @jrry32 has a couple of intriguing options over in the NCAA thread.

If I'm not mistaken Fisher has stated that Long has been playing thru his injury, and he hasn't been starting, so we'll have to see how he comes back next year! I wouldn't be surprised if he's asked to take a pay cut, but I think he'll be back!! JMHO

 

[Stel]

No doubt we need to address DE. If we don't, in another year it will become a high priority.

My suggestions:
1. Resign Hayes. He has a couple more years in the tank as a quality rotational DE.
2. Keep Long if he will renegotiate. He is still better than most here will give him credit, but he isn't worth the cap hit next season (he is our highest at $14.25 mil).
3. Draft one. I like James Cowser, Southern Utah, in the fourth.

 

[MountainRam]

Yup, Cut Long and let Steve Keim employ him for pennies on the dollar and see him wreck the Rams. The Charmed Ram Life Episode 86454.

You don't let leadership leave. Long is due for a pay cut. He should stay Ram with a pay cut..

 

[JUMAVA68]

Letting go of certain players is tough unfortunately this will be the case for C.Long.Hopefully he doesn't want to play anywhere else and takes a pay cut.A reduced roie could extend his career while another player gets experience. Hopefully he accepts a pay cut and reduced role because he and JL deserve to experience a winning season and to play in the playoffs.

 

[TexasRam]

I heard Long is playing hurt still. I wonder if that is true. Because yea, he's going to get cut.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Yup, Cut Long and let Steve Keim employ him for pennies on the dollar and see him wreck the Rams. The Charmed Ram Life Episode 86454.

You don't let leadership leave. Long is due for a pay cut. He should stay Ram with a pay cut..

My favorite episode is 45509 when the oppositions third string QB puts up hall of fame numbers on our D

 

[ChrisW]

If we keep Fisher, he makes his money with DT picks. Let him and Snead work their magic and get us the best bang for our buck on the D-line.

 

[Rams43]

Sad but true Chris Long last two seasons (15/16) have not been kind to him. Rams Org spent paid over 17 million this season alone for the services of Hayes & Long with getting only 4 1/2 sacks this season coming from these ultra high cost veteran DE's.

Hayes has been the main starter @ LDE for the last two seasons. WH started 9 in 2015 & 8 in 2016. CL has been in the position of playing when he was healthy as the relief and mostly on passing downs. The evidence from the hard stats & film is CL is not a force @ DE. So over the last two seasons the Rams have paid a back up relief DE over 25 1/2 million. Maybe we should have used that $$ for a veteran OL'er? CL is due to be paid a little under 15 million in 2016. NOT going to happen.

Fisher's current starting veteran DE Eugene Sims & who has finished 8 games as our starting RDE in place of Rob Quinn has only ONE sack. Both 30 yr old Sims & 31 yr old Hayes will enter free agency in a few months as UFA's along with our main & only reserve 27 yr old DT Nick Fairley.

When you look at the stats in tackles being made by our DL Nick Fairley his tackles is high @ 27, Fairley has just about doubled the tackles than any of our starting DE's outside of Hayes. Long has only 14 & Sims has 13 tackles. Rookie UDFA John Longacre who is 5th DE on the Rams roster has only played in 4 games has 10 tackles & UDFA (2014) Ethan Westbrooks has 13 tackles all in very limited action!

Back to Chris Long, many have posted that CL will have to take a big pay cut to remain here in 2016.....I would ask why? There are many NFL teams who have been in DE famine. These teams will vastly over pay for a veteran class act DE like Chris Long . I also think CL would like to have a chance to finally play for a wining team after a full NFL career of non winning seasons. I sure would not want to deny him that opportunity because time IS running out fast on him.

Fact is IMO it time to move on from CL here. Rams have an all pro DE in Rob Quinn. Rams also have two young DE reserves signed who in limited action like CL have close to the same tackles as CL in Ethan Westbrooks & John Longacre. I think its vert clear that it would be best IMO that Hayes would be my #1 sought after UFA DL'er for a short 2 yr contract if possible let Sims & Long depart. If Hayes is hesitant to sign back with a loosing team & the release of his best friend CL, then I am going real hard after Nick Fairley & look to draft a good young DE in the 2016 draft.

What Bonifay just said.

Long must take a salary haircut down to around $7 million. Not a restructure, mind you, but a genuine salary cut of approx $7 million. Or else we should trade him for player or pick, if even possible, or outright release him.

Westbrooks and Longacre give us legitimate options.

Besides, this is reportedly a banner year for DE's and we probably take one by Day Two anyway simply because the value/need intersect so nicely.

That saved $7 million could be better spent on keeping our own FA's or maybe acquiring an outside FA at WR.

No brainer, if you ask me.

BTW, Cook shouldn't get too comfortable, either. This is also a good draft year for TE's while we're at it. That's another $7 million saved, I believe.

We need to invest our cap dollars in our other proven producers. Emphasis proven producers.

 

[RaminExile]

I think he's been playing hurt through three seasons at least now and his production has fallen off a cliff because of it. Don't know if ir last year or before would have helped recovery if he needed some cleanup surgery but I do agree that he is overpaid for what he can bring to the table now.

He needs to be cut or have his contract renegotiated. If he has to leave then I'd say thanks for being a great leader and a heck of a player (for many years our best player) on a team with no hope for much of it and move on.

I'd probably let Sims go as a cap casualty also. Give Westbrooks his reps and draft a de with our first second round pick.

 

[FrantikRam]

This is why I want the whole staff GONE.

We build an "elite" defense that randomly gives up big plays and can't tackle, while ignoring the offense. Then we try to build the offense up and fail. Now it's time to retool and restock on defense because players will either be aging or leaving.

If Fisher stays I guarantee two of our first three picks will be defense.

 

[Alan]

I agree with both of your takes on CL @BonifayRam & @Rams43 but Longacre isn't a replacement for Chris. He's only a Ram because of the injuries to Long and Quinn.

 

[badnews]

This is why I want the whole staff GONE.

We build an "elite" defense that randomly gives up big plays and can't tackle, while ignoring the offense. Then we try to build the offense up and fail. Now it's time to retool and restock on defense because players will either be aging or leaving.

If Fisher stays I guarantee two of our first three picks will be defense.

Wow. So Gurley and Tavon do nothing for you? What about the fact that they have used more draft and FA capital on the offense than the defense?
#2 overall pick last year, trading up to 8 for TA, Gurley this year not to mention practically every other pick in this last draft went offense...

You don't have to like all the moves they have made, but it hasn't been an issue of "ignoring the offense".
It's an issue of coaching them.

Give me a good OC, get a new Oline coach because Paul Beaudreau hasn't been very good (cmon, he has been given a pass for too long) and get rid of Sherman for a better WR coach... just an all new offensive staff...

Yes, I want change, but not just extreme change just for the sake of it.
Fisher and Snead have given us Brockers, Ogletree, Austin, Donald and Gurley.
Whose picks over the last 4 years you would swap those guys for?

Remember what our drafts looked like before these guys got here (sure, we got Quinn on the slide.... but other than that???)
Where was all that offensive talent before they got here?
Like it or not, Snead/Fisher have provided us with the best offensive players since Vermeil left in 2000.

 

[BriansRams]

I love Chris and thank him for everything he's done for us. But, he's going to be cut if we want to move forward. We need to free up all the money we can, and not be weighed down by under performers on large contracts.

I agree. Great guy Chris is, but I watched him closely in nfl replay this last game and he is not a force to be reckoned with ... at all. He is worth about 1.5 million per year at this point. That's it.