Jim Thomas on The Morning After Show

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SEGMENT 5 - Jim Thomas on the show to discuss the Rams and 49ers game...
http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLc...Show-Audio--Mizzou-to-Play-for-SEC-Title.aspx

[av]http://www.insidestlaudio.com/ITD_Audio/120213-5Thomas.mp3[/av]

 

[RamzFanz]

The fake punt call should forever be known as the call that ended the Rams 2013 season.

Hey coach, we could trust the pass rush to create a turnover, they're pretty good, or we could put the ball in the hands of Tavon in the open field and see what happens, he's pretty good, or we can fake punt from our own 22. There's twenty five percent of the game left and we're only down 10. What do you want?

Maybe we should name the fake punt call. How about "The Draft Pick Punt"?

 

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The fake punt call should forever be known as the call that ended the Rams 2013 season.

Hey coach, we could trust the pass rush to create a turnover, they're pretty good, or we could put the ball in the hands of Tavon in the open field and see what happens, he's pretty good, or we can fake punt from our own 22. There's twenty five percent of the game left and we're only down 10. What do you want?

Maybe we should name the fake punt call. How about "The Draft Pick Punt"?

And if it had worked?

Funny. Nobody questioned the fake punt from our own endzone against them last year.
Mainly because it worked. "Oh! The balls on Fisher! Love it!"

:shifty:

 

[Selassie I]

If Gio would have gotten the ball in Sted's hands,,, even if he had to force it in there (you can't just not follow through on the play),,, Sted would have been able to gain much more than just the 1st down. He's just GOT TO find a way to get the ball to Sted.

Very unfortunate.

 

[RamzFanz]

And if it had worked?

Funny. Nobody questioned the fake punt from our own endzone against them last year.
Mainly because it worked. "Oh! The balls on Fisher! Love it!"

:shifty:

If they had gone in there balls to the wall, throwing everything and the kitchen sink at them like they did that game last season, I would agree. They didn't. They didn't use TA intelligently or try anything interesting all game except the failed TA pass, they call this fake punt, then they just surrender the clock and all hope of a win.

How do you run TA once for 10 yards and never again? How do you pass to Givens far more than TA?

We weren't going to win this game running up the middle.

I'm not saying the players didn't make a pile of mistakes in penalties and dropped passes, but it wasn't schemed to win.

 

[Zaphod]

And if it had worked?

Funny. Nobody questioned the fake punt from our own endzone against them last year.
Mainly because it worked. "Oh! The balls on Fisher! Love it!"

:shifty:

I so agree with this. The Rams were desperate to keep the offense on the field. They needed to score and the defense needed to recoup.

So they went for it and failed. I think a lot of people would have been annoyed if Fisher had gone conservative and punted the ball.

 

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If they had gone in there balls to the wall, throwing everything and the kitchen sink at them like they did that game last season, I would agree. They didn't. They didn't use TA intelligently or try anything interesting all game except the failed TA pass, they call this fake punt, then they just surrender the clock and all hope of a win.

How do you run TA once for 10 yards and never again? How do you pass to Givens far more than TA?

We weren't going to win this game running up the middle.

I'm not saying the players didn't make a pile of mistakes in penalties and dropped passes, but it wasn't schemed to win.

Didn't use TA intelligently? I don't understand that. What would you have them do? Strap a jet pack to his back and have him catch the ball 15 yards above everyone else's heads? They ran him, they had him play QB, sent him deep, cleared out the zone and threw to him underneath, threw quick outs, and quick slants. Maybe. Just maybe. The 49ers knew what he could do and schemed against the stuff that would normally get him open? Again, it's not like the guy can get 100+ yards receiving every game - as a rookie - against NFL competition. Pick plays don't always work. Stacking at the line doesn't always work. Sometimes (as painful as it may be), you have to credit the defensive scheme and execution. Or when the Rams stop another team's offensive weapon, would you rather say the other team just didn't use him intelligently?

Plus, we have a running game to attend to (to set up the pass), plus other receivers who were supposed to do their respective jobs as well yesterday.

 

[jap]

I so agree with this. The Rams were desperate to keep the offense on the field. They needed to score and the defense needed to recoup.

So they went for it and failed. I think a lot of people would have been annoyed if Fisher had gone conservative and punted the ball.

People would have been annoyed regardless as long as the result was a failure. Coaches rarely get praised for taking chances and failing. Only success is praised.

 

[RamzFanz]

I so agree with this. The Rams were desperate to keep the offense on the field. They needed to score and the defense needed to recoup.

So they went for it and failed. I think a lot of people would have been annoyed if Fisher had gone conservative and punted the ball.

Punting the ball, with over 14 minutes left, from your own 22, down just 10 points, isn't conservative, it's sane. Let's remember the return guy dropped one and almost dropped another. That the Rams special teams is capable of big plays. That the Rams D is more than capable of creating turnovers.

 

[RamzFanz]

Didn't use TA intelligently? I don't understand that. What would you have them do? Strap a jet pack to his back and have him catch the ball 15 yards above everyone else's heads? They ran him, they had him play QB, sent him deep, cleared out the zone and threw to him underneath, threw quick outs, and quick slants. Maybe. Just maybe. The 49ers knew what he could do and schemed against the stuff that would normally get him open? Again, it's not like the guy can get 100+ yards receiving every game - as a rookie - against NFL competition. Pick plays don't always work. Stacking at the line doesn't always work. Sometimes (as painful as it may be), you have to credit the defensive scheme and execution. Or when the Rams stop another team's offensive weapon, would you rather say the other team just didn't use him intelligently?

Plus, we have a running game to attend to (to set up the pass), plus other receivers who were supposed to do their respective jobs as well yesterday.

So what you're saying is Schotty doesn't know how to get a single person the ball in open space once in an entire game? I agree.

 

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So what you're saying is Schotty doesn't know how to get a single person the ball in open space once in an entire game? I agree.

Yeah. That's what I'm saying.

And think about what you just said. Schotty isn't responsible for getting the ball there. That's the QB's job. Rewatch the game and see if you can find the instances where the play was designed to do just that, but the protection and/or execution wasn't there.

I counted 5.

 

[Zaphod]

Punting the ball, with over 14 minutes left, from your own 22, down just 10 points, isn't conservative, it's sane. Let's remember the return guy dropped one and almost dropped another. That the Rams special teams is capable of big plays. That the Rams D is more than capable of creating turnovers.

The only problem I have that is that the defense wasn't stopping them. I agree that they can create turnovers, but at that point you're asking where is the greater chance to win? Have we had more than one TD on a ST return this year? I would think that continuing the offensive drive would have given them a better chance than hoping for another turnover.

Time on field and yardage was definitely favoring the 49ers offense at that point and he was trying to turn things around. The 49ers scored with ease on their next drive and then sat on the ball conservatively. The scary part to me is that it took something like 3 drives for the Rams to finally score when they were down 17 after the 9ers basically sat on the ball for three and outs.

The game was over at the point that the Rams had to go to an air attack with Clemens. I saw the coupe de grace coming and would have gone for it as well, but probably instead with the actual offense on the field. Fisher was just trying to use the element of surprise.

 

[RamzFanz]

And if it had worked?

Funny. Nobody questioned the fake punt from our own endzone against them last year.
Mainly because it worked. "Oh! The balls on Fisher! Love it!"

:shifty:

You know when I WOULD have called a fake punt on the 21 yard line? When the Rams were down 17 points. Then, I could see it. Do or die. They punted though and lost.

 

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You know when I WOULD have called a fake punt on the 21 yard line? When the Rams were down 17 points. Then, I could see it. Do or die. They punted though and lost.

So you wouldn't call a fake punt from your own endzone while up by 7 (last year)?
So, I guess, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
Quite the enviable position you've put him in.

 

[RamzFanz]

Yeah. That's what I'm saying.

And think about what you just said. Schotty isn't responsible for getting the ball there. That's the QB's job. Rewatch the game and see if you can find the instances where the play was designed to do just that, but the protection and/or execution wasn't there.

I counted 5.

Ah well. We see it differently. If KC couldn't get the ball to TA in open space, they could have ran him and used trick plays to get him the ball. Anything. They didn't get him the ball.

He's not a super star and it's no guarantee that he does anything if you do get him the ball, but it was their only real hope. We knew ZS could run some but not dominate. We knew Givens was not playing well. I just don't get it.

 

[RamzFanz]

So you wouldn't call a fake punt from your own endzone while up by 7 (last year)?
So, I guess, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
Quite the enviable position you've put him in.

If it's the right call when down by 10, why not when down by 17 with even less time left?

 

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If it's the right call when down by 10, why not when down by 17 with even less time left?

How many fake punts do you think you can call in one game before the defense puts it's regular personnel on the field as opposed to their coverage units?

 

[RamzFanz]

How many fake punts do you think you can call in one game before the defense puts it's regular personnel on the field as opposed to their coverage units?

Well, in the game you're sourcing, twice.

What I'm mostly saying X is that if they used trickery and razzle dazzle in the offense with TA, they may not even have been faced with that decision.

I was watching the highlights and the commentator called it the worst fake punt ever designed.

In fact, if it had been a Hekker to TA fake, I would be defending it to the end. THAT would have had potential to help win the game.

 

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Well, in the game you're sourcing, twice.

What I'm mostly saying X is that if they used trickery and razzle dazzle in the offense with TA, they may not even have been faced with that decision.

I was watching the highlights and the commentator called it the worst fake punt ever designed.

In fact, if it had been a Hekker to TA fake, I would be defending it to the end. THAT would have had potential to help win the game.

Well, if the announcer called it that, then it had to be a shitty play that never worked in practice when it was executed properly either.
Because, you know, announcers see all that stuff too.

"We don't call plays that don't work."
-- Jeff Fisher

 

[Thordaddy]

And if it had worked?

Funny. Nobody questioned the fake punt from our own endzone against them last year.
Mainly because it worked. "Oh! The balls on Fisher! Love it!"

:shifty:

Y'bit you can go to the well to often and JMO that was a case in point,IMO Harbaugh ' s boys expected it,for me it put the game on the line when I thought it wasn't time to do so, didn't like it, not irate about it