Is This TOO Wacky to Happen??

[Robocop]

Top 10 my butt. He's Decent but he's not on Quinn or Donalds level. He has another year or 2 before he's gone

'top 10 my butt' isn't an argument. and using sack statistics to rank defensive lineman is an ameteur way to grade football players.

 

[Angry Ram]

And I don't understand the mindset of not being willing to consider trading virtually anyone on the team if the trade would make the team better. NO one player comes above the team.

And the reality is you have to give up quality to get quality.

Uh-huh.

The real reality is trading him would weaken the team's biggest strength and identity. We already saw a taste of that half of last season.

Core player, longest tenured Ram. Still in him prime. Yeah , let's trade him for JAGs and draft picks (which is what you would actually get in return; NOT starter for starter).

 

[FrankenRam]

so a player is only deemed good by how many times he's been voted to the popularity contest they call the pro bowl? thats a seriously weak argument. oh btw he's been named an alternate to the pro bowl 3 times

Good grief. Of course it's not the only way. But it is a good measure of those who could be considered as 'core players' of a team.

 

[FrankenRam]

Uh-huh.

The real reality is trading him would weaken the team's biggest strength and identity. We already saw a taste of that half of last season.

Core player, longest tenured Ram. Still in him prime. Yeah , let's trade him for JAGs and draft picks (which is what you would actually get in return; NOT starter for starter).

IF all they could get for him would be 'JAGs and draft picks', then I wouldn't make the trade either.

With some of the replies to this post, you'd think I was a slave trader trying to steal the first born son from posters. Long is good, very good. And I like him. But he's way overrated by some here. He's certainly not HOF material if he hasn't yet made a single ProBowl.

This idea arose not because I want to get rid of CLong. It arose because we have serious needs on the OL, and a trade might be one alternative to counting on draft suspects or FA signings to fill those holes. And to make a trade, you're going to have to give up something the other team will want......and that you may prefer not to give up.

But if making that trade will improve the team overall (even if it does slightly weaken one area), it could be worth it.

 

[Robocop]

Good grief. Of course it's not the only way. But it is a good measure of those who could be considered as 'core players' of a team.

he is most definitely a core player and smart teams don't trade away their core leadership, impact players to try and patchwork a different problem. you vastly underrate Long's disruption ability, run stop ability and leadership impact. I'm not sure how many games you get to watch every season but half the sacks that quinn gets Long is on top of him too a half second later usually cus the QB backpedals straight into quinn while watching Long charge at him. Snisher didn't pick Donald then sign Fairley just to build possibly the best Dline in decades to turn around and pull out a cornerstone. players have immeasurable qualities to their football teams. I mean by your logic I'm assuming you might think JL is pretty expendable too cus he hasn't been to any pro bowls and isn't a super athlete

 

[FrankenRam]

Oh c'mon. He'd be a part of the trade package. Not the only chip in the deal.

BTW, the Pro Bowl is merely a popularity contest.

Well, you're totally changing the parameters of the trade I posited. I was looking for a one for one possibility.

And the Pro Bowl is not merely a popularity contest. Yes, that is a BIG part of it, and there certainly are injustices that occur every year with some of those elected vs some that are deserving. But overall, it's still a decent measure of the best of the best playing the game today. You'd be hard presed to convince anyone that the large majority of those elected didn't deserve to be there.

 

[Zaphod]

6. By contrast, look at the DE's that are consistently mocked in the top 10. There's a choice of at least 3 (Gregory, Fowler, SRay) and possibly 4 if we include Beasley. Is there not 1 amongst that group that could fall to us at 10? Seems like better odds of that occurring than Scherff being there at 10.

That is exactly why I don't view that first round pick as something that I would covet for any particular position ... assuming they don't trade down.

As it is, we may be far more likely to see greater value on the defensive line on that #10 spot than at any other position, and so it may well be that we draft for the defensive line again ... luxury or not. That, along with Long's contract and what they feel they'll be able to sign him to on when his contract expires in 2017 may be a reason that they want a defensive end now.

Anyway, I don't think it's likely that he'll be traded. First, I know they don't want any excuses, but instead need to expect the defense to be dominant early, and the reason for that being that they're changing so many things on offense next season. That including the surprising QB trade to possibly 3 new faces on the line.

 

[FrankenRam]

he is most definitely a core player and smart teams don't trade away their core leadership, impact players to try and patchwork a different problem. you vastly underrate Long's disruption ability, run stop ability and leadership impact. I'm not sure how many games you get to watch every season but half the sacks that quinn gets Long is on top of him too a half second later usually cus the QB backpedals straight into quinn while watching Long charge at him. Snisher didn't pick Donald then sign Fairley just to build possibly the best Dline in decades to turn around and pull out a cornerstone. players have immeasurable qualities to their football teams. I mean by your logic I'm assuming you might think JL is pretty expendable too cus he hasn't been to any pro bowls and isn't a super athlete

That's your opinion. IMO, you vastly overrate him.

 

[FrankenRam]

That is exactly why I don't view that first round pick as something that I would covet for any particular position ... assuming they don't trade down.

As it is, we may be far more likely to see greater value on the defensive line on that #10 spot than at any other position, and so it may well be that we draft for the defensive line again ... luxury or not. That, along with Long's contract and what they feel they'll be able to sign him to on when his contract expires in 2017 may be a reason that they want a defensive end now.

Anyway, I don't think it's likely that he'll be traded. First, I know they don't want any excuses, but instead need to expect the defense to be dominant early, and the reason for that being that they're changing so many things on offense next season. That including the surprising QB trade to possibly 3 new faces on the line.

I think I largely agree with you....esp on who they draft at #10. And I don't really expect such a trade as I've proposed to occur either. I was merely looking at the possibilities to bolster the OL and not kill another area of the team. Losing Long would hurt. I don't question that. I just don't think it would be the dagger in the heart of the D that some respondents seem to think would be the case.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Well, you're totally changing the parameters of the trade I posited. I was looking for a one for one possibility.

And the Pro Bowl is not merely a popularity contest. Yes, that is a BIG part of it, and there certainly are injustices that occur every year with some of those elected vs some that are deserving. But overall, it's still a decent measure of the best of the best playing the game today. You'd be hard presed to convince anyone that the large majority of those elected didn't deserve to be there.

I feel ya man, trade for improvement is never a bad thing...It's rough, but sometimes it must be done...Lets look at some of your argument, C Long is still a productive player, and while his salary is quite high, I don't feel he's stealing money from the Rams, not like some others who shall remain nameless in this thread..... I also feel he hasn't quite lived up to his draft status, wasn't he #2 overall pick? Not untouchable, but surely not the problem. What could we really hope to get in return is the main issue, and I doubt he'd receive the value he has with this team...Hell, if Quinn could get Aaron Rodgers in a trade, I'd have to say do it, and I love the way Quinn plays...And if Quinn plays this year like he played last year, he isn't really earning his contract, is he?
Leadership is worth something, just not as much as it used to be due to free agency...We can trade for leadership...We need talented players, at a discount. That being said, I really like Bud Dupree from Kentucky...And yes, I'd take him over Long.. I like Chris...really do...but I love the Rams more...and would like to see the playoffs in the next 3 years.

 

[FrantikRam]

Judging D lineman is tough. It's not all about the numbers, but Chris has gotten consistent pressure since he's been in the league. And wasn't his contract front loaded?? So his cap hit will be getting smaller.

You could easily make the argument that he's a top 10 DE in the league. On top of that there are ramifications that fans don't think about....such as, Chris Long has bled for the Rams on bad teams for YEARS. So let's say we trade him away in his prime, even if the coaches think it'll make the team better. How will that look to other players? Hypothetical scenario here....let's say we trade Chris to the Raiders for their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks - could be argued whether or not you'd do it, but let's just say it happened. We get extra picks, build some good depth.

But all those guys we drafted hear (obviously) that we traded Chris Long to the worst NFL team over the past 10 years. Some of them could potentially automatically think "I'm not re-signing with the Rams - what if they trade me to a terrible team? If they'd trade him, they'd trade anyone". It could also have an impact on future free agents.

I'm not saying they should always consider these things, but it's just an example of how trading a guy that has bled for your franchise could have more impact than us fans think.

Regardless, Chris is easily a top 10 DE IMO so we should not trade him.

 

[Angry Ram]

IF all they could get for him would be 'JAGs and draft picks', then I wouldn't make the trade either.

With some of the replies to this post, you'd think I was a slave trader trying to steal the first born son from posters. Long is good, very good. And I like him. But he's way overrated by some here. He's certainly not HOF material if he hasn't yet made a single ProBowl.

This idea arose not because I want to get rid of CLong. It arose because we have serious needs on the OL, and a trade might be one alternative to counting on draft suspects or FA signings to fill those holes. And to make a trade, you're going to have to give up something the other team will want......and that you may prefer not to give up.

But if making that trade will improve the team overall (even if it does slightly weaken one area), it could be worth it.

I don't see how a team can improve overall. You say it would "slightly" weakens one area. Again tho, that one area is our team's biggest strength and identity.

You trade away Chris Long for a decent guard, and then what? Suddenly your DEs will rely on William Hayes/Eugene Sims as starters (tho awesome depth players, aren't 16 game starters as we saw last year) or rookies. Rookies DEs are dicey picks. The impact of a DE, like one of Chris Long's caliber, is much more felt than the impact of a left guard. And that impact is magnified if the rookie DE doesn't pan out.

Besides Chris has those intangibles (the proverbial "heart and soul" ) that another player may not have, no matter how good he is. And players like those rarely, if ever, get traded. That IMO makes the team better than one good player.

 

[FrankenRam]

I feel ya man, trade for improvement is never a bad thing...It's rough, but sometimes it must be done...Lets look at some of your argument, C Long is still a productive player, and while his salary is quite high, I don't feel he's stealing money from the Rams, not like some others who shall remain nameless in this thread..... I also feel he hasn't quite lived up to his draft status, wasn't he #2 overall pick? Not untouchable, but surely not the problem. What could we really hope to get in return is the main issue, and I doubt he'd receive the value he has with this team...Hell, if Quinn could get Aaron Rodgers in a trade, I'd have to say do it, and I love the way Quinn plays...And if Quinn plays this year like he played last year, he isn't really earning his contract, is he?
Leadership is worth something, just not as much as it used to be due to free agency...We can trade for leadership...We need talented players, at a discount. That being said, I really like Bud Dupree from Kentucky...And yes, I'd take him over Long.. I like Chris...really do...but I love the Rams more...and would like to see the playoffs in the next 3 years.

Agree entirely. Especially your point about the probability we wouldn't get sufficient return for him in a one for one swap. That's really what I was trying to determine, but I suspect you're correct in surmising his value is greater to this team than it would be to another in a trade.

And no, I certainly agree he is not stealing money from the team. Truth be told, if we had a 55 man roster of players playing to his level, we'd be in pretty good shape. So many respondents seem to believe I'm just looking to get rid of CL, but that's not the case at all. But sometimes ya gotta give to get, and if we could get enough for him, or like you say, just about any other player on the team, it's worth exploring.

 

[FrankenRam]

Judging D lineman is tough. It's not all about the numbers, but Chris has gotten consistent pressure since he's been in the league. And wasn't his contract front loaded?? So his cap hit will be getting smaller.

You could easily make the argument that he's a top 10 DE in the league. On top of that there are ramifications that fans don't think about....such as, Chris Long has bled for the Rams on bad teams for YEARS. So let's say we trade him away in his prime, even if the coaches think it'll make the team better. How will that look to other players? Hypothetical scenario here....let's say we trade Chris to the Raiders for their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks - could be argued whether or not you'd do it, but let's just say it happened. We get extra picks, build some good depth.

But all those guys we drafted hear (obviously) that we traded Chris Long to the worst NFL team over the past 10 years. Some of them could potentially automatically think "I'm not re-signing with the Rams - what if they trade me to a terrible team? If they'd trade him, they'd trade anyone". It could also have an impact on future free agents.

I'm not saying they should always consider these things, but it's just an example of how trading a guy that has bled for your franchise could have more impact than us fans think.

Regardless, Chris is easily a top 10 DE IMO so we should not trade him.

I don't know that I agree or disagree he's a 'Top 10' DE. I'd have to study that. But it's certainly possible.

And though I understand what you're saying about how trading him at this point might look to other players, I just don't think that's a topic a team can let have much influence on decisions of this nature.

IMO, one of the bigger downsides to FA, and maybe more importantly the salary cap, is that so few players start & finish their careers with the same team. That is a shame. I wish someone would come up with a mechanism that would allow that to occur with more frequency than it does. And I had thought the revision of the rookie salary cap might have something of an impact on that, but it sure doesn't seem to be happening that way.

In fact, it seems to be becoming more & more trendy to release/trade players within a yr or two after it's perceived their career has peaked....when they still have some value. See Vince Wilfork as one of the latest examples.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Well, you're totally changing the parameters of the trade I posited. I was looking for a one for one possibility.

And the Pro Bowl is not merely a popularity contest. Yes, that is a BIG part of it, and there certainly are injustices that occur every year with some of those elected vs some that are deserving. But overall, it's still a decent measure of the best of the best playing the game today. You'd be hard presed to convince anyone that the large majority of those elected didn't deserve to be there.

I thought I addressed the one on one possibility in my second sentence.

And I disagree on the Pro Bowl being a decent measure when popularity is the BIG part of the selections. Much of that popularity comes from a player's team winning games. If you are on a losing team it's that much harder to make it due to the limited exposure.

 

[So Ram]

There can almost never be any sacred cows on any team. Any GM worth his salt should listen to ALL trade offers for anyone on their team. There will be exceptions...., i.e., the Colts would be crazy to trade ALuck, but unless you have a player of that stature, EVERYONE is potential trade bait.

CLong is good. I wouldn't relish losing him. But he is FAR from untouchable, and not remotely worth 'losing your Rams card' over.

I beg to differ !!
What's your offer for Chris Long ???#2 pick ?? Look at what he has cost The Rams for how many years.Now he is a solid Veteran on The Rams about make a playoff run & you want to get rid of him ???
I just think it is ridiculous for a Rams fan to even suggest that right now.

 

[LesBaker]

I feel ya man, trade for improvement is never a bad thing...It's rough, but sometimes it must be done...Lets look at some of your argument, C Long is still a productive player, and while his salary is quite high, I don't feel he's stealing money from the Rams, not like some others who shall remain nameless in this thread..... I also feel he hasn't quite lived up to his draft status, wasn't he #2 overall pick? Not untouchable, but surely not the problem. What could we really hope to get in return is the main issue, and I doubt he'd receive the value he has with this team...Hell, if Quinn could get Aaron Rodgers in a trade, I'd have to say do it, and I love the way Quinn plays...And if Quinn plays this year like he played last year, he isn't really earning his contract, is he?
Leadership is worth something, just not as much as it used to be due to free agency...We can trade for leadership...We need talented players, at a discount. That being said, I really like Bud Dupree from Kentucky...And yes, I'd take him over Long.. I like Chris...really do...but I love the Rams more...and would like to see the playoffs in the next 3 years.

I mostly agree with you on Long. He's a difficult player to decide to trade because of the solid production and because of who he is.

Yeah he was "overdrafted" but that was a crappy draft for sure, nobody wanted that draft slot so the Rams had to take the guy they felt was best.

Out of the entire top half of the first round is there anyone else that would have been a better pick?

Some of those guys have been flat out busts, and a bunch aren't even playing anymore. So Long was the smart pick, though had they taken Ryan I'd be OK with that LOL.

 

[FrankenRam]

I beg to differ !!
What's your offer for Chris Long ???#2 pick ?? Look at what he has cost The Rams for how many years.Now he is a solid Veteran on The Rams about make a playoff run & you want to get rid of him ???
I just think it is ridiculous for a Rams fan to even suggest that right now.

Different strokes and all....

For the 83,233rd time, it's not that I want to get rid of CLong. I'm simply looking for an alternative means of improving the OL.

And as bad as the Rams have been for as long as they have been, I think it's utterly absurd for anyone to think there are any sacred cows on this team. IF the price is right, every player on this team should be tradable. And if we could get an OL in trade for CLong that was as equally good an OL as CL is a DE, then I'd trade him in a heartbeat. Of course, the way so many respondents in this thread overvalue CL, we could be offered Orlando Pace in his prime for CL, and they'd still whine about it.

 

[So Ram]

Different strokes and all....

For the 83,233rd time, it's not that I want to get rid of CLong. I'm simply looking for an alternative means of improving the OL.

And as bad as the Rams have been for as long as they have been, I think it's utterly absurd for anyone to think there are any sacred cows on this team. IF the price is right, every player on this team should be tradable. And if we could get an OL in trade for CLong that was as equally good an OL as CL is a DE, then I'd trade him in a heartbeat. Of course, the way so many respondents in this thread overvalue CL, we could be offered Orlando Pace in his prime for CL, and they'd still whine about it.

I won't go that far !! A Purple pill might help me through this weekend.
--You don't weaken one position to make another position better.There is a saying in the NFL.You can never have enough Edge Rushers.(Fisher said don't be surprised if they draft a DE).
---I think The Rams have a vision of what the offensive line is going to look like in 2015.I'm drinking the Purple Koolaide again w/ D'Markus Russell.
To be a realist though Chris Long can't be traded.Sam Bradford was a different story.(I'm actually still shocked)You might have to pinch me,because I could be dreaming.Philly took The Rams out of QB HELL !!!
I'm thinking Hundley with Jeff Fishers track record The Rams draft Hundley from UCLA in 2nd rd.(He finally gets his black QB),& a DE at #10 from a History standpoint .
BTW-they won't trade Chris Long,just saying...& You deserve your Ram Card.

 

[FrankenRam]

I won't go that far !! A Purple pill might help me through this weekend.
--You don't weaken one position to make another position better.There is a saying in the NFL.You can never have enough Edge Rushers.(Fisher said don't be surprised if they draft a DE).
---I think The Rams have a vision of what the offensive line is going to look like in 2015.I'm drinking the Purple Koolaide again w/ D'Markus Russell.
To be a realist though Chris Long can't be traded.Sam Bradford was a different story.(I'm actually still shocked)You might have to pinch me,because I could be dreaming.Philly took The Rams out of QB HELL !!!
I'm thinking Hundley with Jeff Fishers track record The Rams draft Hundley from UCLA in 2nd rd.(He finally gets his black QB),& a DE at #10 from a History standpoint .
BTW-they won't trade Chris Long,just saying...& You deserve your Ram Card.

A player for player trade is, almost by definition, going to weaken one position to strengthen another....unless of course, you're able to pull off a Broglio for Brock scenario.

The question is ....are you able to strengthen the one position more than you weaken the other. Or in this example, could the addition of a ProBowl Alternate quality OL help the Rams' O more than losing a ProBowl Alternate quality DE hurt the D.(?)

The whole idea was predicated around the Rams sticking with the #10 pick in Rd 1 and the players that might be available to them at the pick. When I look at the OL that might be available, Scherff is the only OL I see consistently mocked as a top 10 suspect this year. By contrast, there are at least 3 DE's that are consistently mocked at that level...Fowler, Gregory, and Ray...and maybe Beasley if you think he can be a DE rather than LB in the NFL.

So, IF the Rams could acquire a ProBowl Alternate quality OL via trade AND one of those DE's with the #10 pick in the draft, could they be better off overall.(?) IMO, it's at least possible.

Of course, if none of those DE's mocked in the top 10 would fit the Rams' scheme on D, then the whole idea becomes a lot more questionable.

There's no question there are risks involved here. CL is a known quantity and a good player to have on the team. I certainly wouldn't trade him for 'any old' OL. But neither is he Reggie White or Deacon Jones, and is expendable if the right deal comes along.

 

[Ballhawk]

And as bad as the Rams have been for as long as they have been, I think it's utterly absurd for anyone to think there are any sacred cows on this team. IF the price is right, every player on this team should be tradable.

This, some help from the league with the officials, and a lot of cheating is how the Patriots keep winning.